Elder Enrollment Strategy

[Omar]

We’d all love to see this, but it’s not realistic at this moment in time. For them to get close to 300, they need to get more students from these parishes/neighborhoods in order:

• Ignatius & James
• Oak Hills Middle Schools
• “Central” Cincinnati (Bacon Feeders)
• CPS
• Eastside Catholic schools
• Indiana
• NKY

Indiana students are only eligible for athletics if the come from St Lawrence, otherwise the rule needs to be overhauled like NKY before they can really branch out. And it’s not about making Elder better athletically. When you tell a kid he cannot participate in athletics of any kind, it’s a huge issue.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

It is disappointing more CPS students are not going to Elder, especially the amount of outreach Elder does in the community. The funding is there to make it happen.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Pie in the sky I guess, but I would love to see over 300 per class. X has done a lot to destroy the diocesan schools. I want Elder to be able to compete with X for Catholic and non-catholic students.

I think Elder is in a tough spot geographically to pull 300. Like Omar said, if rules could change about KY kids being eligible for athletics it would make a difference. St. Xavier is just more centrally located than Elder I think.

 

[Omar]

It is disappointing more CPS students are not going to Elder, especially the amount of outreach Elder does in the community. The funding is there to make it happen.

I think the ultimate goal should be somewhere around 10-15% of a class from CPS. That’s going to be ~20 kids every yr. I think that’s achievable over time, but changing attitudes towards a school/institution happen gradually. There was never going to be a yr where all of the sudden those numbers sky rocket.

 

[UCArch]

It is disappointing more CPS students are not going to Elder, especially the amount of outreach Elder does in the community. The funding is there to make it happen.

I’m sure I’ll get blasted for this but this is what I see:

Elder does a tremendous amount of work in the community and having their students do community service and offering assistance to needing communities. That’s a great thing.

Elder people also equate this to people wanting to come to Elder because of it. We support our community, why aren’t people from the community coming?

What doesn’t seem to be grasped is that that same community feels they won’t get the same amount of opportunity that the feeder kids get. This is where they have to make inroads, but it will be tough because of how so many hoard opportunity for those like them.

Just ask someone from the community or CPS, they will tell you the same thing. This is the reason why they don’t get CPS kids in an area that is pretty much made up of a lot of CPS kids.

It’s a blind spot that people won’t admit because 1) they turn a blind eye, or 2) they don’t want to lose control of that hoarding of opportunity.

Community service is not inclusion.

 

[Falcon11]

I’m sure I’ll get blasted for this but this is what I see:

Elder does a tremendous amount of work in the community and having their students do community service and offering assistance to needing communities. That’s a great thing.

Elder people also equate this to people wanting to come to Elder because of it. We support our community, why aren’t people from the community coming?

What doesn’t seem to be grasped is that that same community feels they won’t get the same amount of opportunity that the feeder kids get. This is where they have to make inroads, but it will be tough because of how so many hoard opportunity for those like them.

Just ask someone from the community or CPS, they will tell you the same thing. This is the reason why they don’t get CPS kids in an area that is pretty much made up of a lot of CPS kids.

It’s a blind spot that people won’t admit because 1) they turn a blind eye, or 2) they don’t want to lose control of that hoarding of opportunity.

Community service is not inclusion.

Agreed.

And the racist cheering section destroyed much of the goodwill that had been built up in the area. People on social media who were not connected with Elder were absolutely DRAGGING Elder and the whole situation. If that's all you hear in your community regarding Elder, you don't even think about going. Doesn't matter that kids are helping in the neighborhood.

 

[PURPLE REIGN]

Anyone hearing issues with St Ursula and transfers?

I was told at a club soccer event over the weekend that MANY current families are disappointed/frustrated with St Ursula's continued infatuation and forcing of BLM, racism, white privilege, etc. on these girls. It's one thing to raise awareness but the SUA administration seems to be going overboard to the point many girls are looking at transfer options for 2021. We shall see.

 

[UCArch]

Agreed.

And the racist cheering section destroyed much of the goodwill that had been built up in the area. People on social media who were not connected with Elder were absolutely DRAGGING Elder and the whole situation. If that's all you hear in your community regarding Elder, you don't even think about going. Doesn't matter that kids are helping in the neighborhood.

The cheering section incident was largely an isolated thing - just a dumb move that everyone wishes never happened. It certainly didn’t help.

I think Elder has done a good job in the recent 2-3 year stretch with enrollment. Being around 200 with the feeder kids is a good spot to be in.

I still think they should try to attract more public school kids and kids from the neighborhood because 1) they’re going to need them over the next 5-10 years as the feeder numbers are drastically lower and 2) show some efforts that they’re willing to diversify thought and opportunity.

I also think sports will take a step back over the next 5 years if they don’t start to find a way to supplement the feeder kids - it’s simply a numbers game. 200 feeder kids and they’ll be fine. 180 plus 20 non traditional kids and they’re fine. 180 feeder kids and no supplement is kind of where the tide starts to turn, unless you have a class with a bunch of studs.

 

[PURPLE REIGN]

I don't know one person who doesn't want more non-traditional students (public school or non westside catholic school). Of course they probably exist (in very small numbers I guess) but Im telling you that in my decades of conversations about Elder, no one has EVER said "I wish they only had feeder school kids on the team or starting" etc.

I'd guess it similar to a UC/XU, Reds, Bengals, etc. situation when local players put on the uniform. Take Carmen for example the lineman pick for the Bengals. Is it cool that he went to Fairfield and Ohio State and got drafted by the local Bengals? Yes. Does it really matter? No. If he cannot perform then they must play someone who can.

Elder had a handful of pandemic transfers who arrived this past year from Walnut Hills. By all indications, these boys are not going back to Walnut next year so they appear to be happy. Pandemic aside, Elder needs to continue to expand its base and attract this type of non-traditional student (good in the classroom, close geographically, etc.). It is certainly not easy when one option is free and the other is $13K.

 

[Omar]

L

Anyone hearing issues with St Ursula and transfers?

I was told at a club soccer event over the weekend that MANY current families are disappointed/frustrated with St Ursula's continued infatuation and forcing of BLM, racism, white privilege, etc. on these girls. It's one thing to raise awareness but the SUA administration seems to be going overboard to the point many girls are looking at transfer options for 2021. We shall see.

I think the CRT emphasis around public schools is a big reason why there’s going to be an influx of kids around the country transferring into private schools.

As you said, it one thing to raise awareness and call for empathy, it’s another thing entirely to guilt students. And it’s scary these School Boards deciding the curriculum are run by bored sociopathic housewives looking to ride the newest trend.

 

[Omar]

I don't know one person who doesn't want more non-traditional students (public school or non westside catholic school). Of course they probably exist (in very small numbers I guess) but Im telling you that in my decades of conversations about Elder, no one has EVER said "I wish they only had feeder school kids on the team or starting" etc.

I'd guess it similar to a UC/XU, Reds, Bengals, etc. situation when local players put on the uniform. Take Carmen for example the lineman pick for the Bengals. Is it cool that he went to Fairfield and Ohio State and got drafted by the local Bengals? Yes. Does it really matter? No. If he cannot perform then they must play someone who can.

Elder had a handful of pandemic transfers who arrived this past year from Walnut Hills. By all indications, these boys are not going back to Walnut next year so they appear to be happy. Pandemic aside, Elder needs to continue to expand its base and attract this type of non-traditional student (good in the classroom, close geographically, etc.). It is certainly not easy when one option is free and the other is $13K.

I’ll be frank, I think it’s the older alumni that cling to those beliefs. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but I do not believe the fully understand how much the landscape has changed in just the last 10-15 yrs.

 

[UCArch]

I don't know one person who doesn't want more non-traditional students (public school or non westside catholic school). Of course they probably exist (in very small numbers I guess) but Im telling you that in my decades of conversations about Elder, no one has EVER said "I wish they only had feeder school kids on the team or starting" etc.

I'd guess it similar to a UC/XU, Reds, Bengals, etc. situation when local players put on the uniform. Take Carmen for example the lineman pick for the Bengals. Is it cool that he went to Fairfield and Ohio State and got drafted by the local Bengals? Yes. Does it really matter? No. If he cannot perform then they must play someone who can.

Elder had a handful of pandemic transfers who arrived this past year from Walnut Hills. By all indications, these boys are not going back to Walnut next year so they appear to be happy. Pandemic aside, Elder needs to continue to expand its base and attract this type of non-traditional student (good in the classroom, close geographically, etc.). It is certainly not easy when one option is free and the other is $13K.

Believing it and executing on it are two different things.

You have to be willing to make changes for non traditional families to feel like they’re getting the same opportunities- you can say it all you want.

Inclusion is about opportunity, not demographic statistics. I don’t think most people believe Elder people are bad people - I just think they know the buddy system would put their son in a tougher position to succeed and get opportunity. If everything Elder is run by former Elder people, then Elder people are going to have the advantage. Most Elder people want to keep it that way.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Inclusion is about opportunity, not demographic statistics. I don’t think most people believe Elder people are bad people - I just think they know the buddy system would put their son in a tougher position to succeed and get opportunity. If everything Elder is run by former Elder people, then Elder people are going to have the advantage. Most Elder people want to keep it that way.

Elder had a player transfer to Elder from Walnut Hills in 2019 as a junior. This player started the first 5 games of the season and he started his senior season. No one on this forum or in my own observation outside complained that this player stole an opportunity from a legacy kid. I think if you asked this player he received more than enough opportunity. Not only did Elder alumni not complain that he took someone's spot, everyone was disappointed that he had to sit out the 2nd half and postseason because of the transfer rule. You can stick with your vague generalizations. I'll stick with real examples.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Anyone hearing issues with St Ursula and transfers?

I was told at a club soccer event over the weekend that MANY current families are disappointed/frustrated with St Ursula's continued infatuation and forcing of BLM, racism, white privilege, etc. on these girls. It's one thing to raise awareness but the SUA administration seems to be going overboard to the point many girls are looking at transfer options for 2021. We shall see.

I've heard the same about Ursula and another GGCL school. I don't think that has reached Seton yet at least not prevalent enough for complaints.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Agreed.

And the racist cheering section destroyed much of the goodwill that had been built up in the area. People on social media who were not connected with Elder were absolutely DRAGGING Elder and the whole situation. If that's all you hear in your community regarding Elder, you don't even think about going. Doesn't matter that kids are helping in the neighborhood.

Elder does more than help clean up the area on weekends. You will see Elder students tutoring and helping out at schools in Price Hill The Scheaper Center hosts different things throughout the year available to the community also.

The cheering section thing was a bad incident, but that was 4 years ago. The political movement of the last few years led by Colin Kaeperknick right or wrong has divided the country sadly. This is bigger than anything Elder has or hasn't done.

 

[UCArch]

Elder had a player transfer to Elder from Walnut Hills in 2019 as a junior. This player started the first 5 games of the season and he started his senior season. No one on this forum or in my own observation outside complained that this player stole an opportunity from a legacy kid. I think if you asked this player he received more than enough opportunity. Not only did Elder alumni not complain that he took someone's spot, everyone was disappointed that he had to sit out the 2nd half and postseason because of the transfer rule. You can stick with your vague generalizations. I'll stick with real examples.

Good!!!

Then this is the type of thing they should be marketing instead of endless Twitter posts about Kyle Rudolph and Pat Kelsey.

You jump to these stupid conclusions about people bringing this up have been wronged, when all they’re really doing is saying “start marketing the success stories of the kids No one knows”

That’s the point. If they did that, more people would come around to seeing that the perception isn’t reality. There are thousands and thousands of successful Elder grads doing well in all walks of life yet they’re never talked about. All you hear about are a handful of former athletes.

This is exactly the type of success story they need to spread on social media. But they don’t.

 

[Omar]

Elder does more than help clean up the area on weekends. You will see Elder students tutoring and helping out at schools in Price Hill The Scheaper Center hosts different things throughout the year available to the community also.

The cheering section thing was a bad incident, but that was 4 years ago. The political movement of the last few years led by Colin Kaeperknick right or wrong has divided the country sadly. This is bigger than anything Elder has or hasn't done.

I think you’re mixing two separate incidents that really have nothing to do with one another.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

I think you’re mixing two separate incidents that really have nothing to do with one another.

Not directly. I'm just downplaying the impact of the cheering section incident. It was a terrible incident, but I don't think it's had the impact other people do. I think there are outside things at play affecting Elder enrollment diversity that Elder can't control.

 

[UCArch]

Not directly. I'm just downplaying the impact of the cheering section incident. It was a terrible incident, but I don't think it's had the impact other people do. I think there are outside things at play affecting Elder enrollment diversity that Elder can't control.

And this is always the excuse - “we can’t control it”. You absolutely can.

Market minority student success. Market public school kid success. Market the success of alums that ARENT famous, you know, like 99.9% of what will become of your graduates. Market inclusive efforts. All of those things are happening - let people know about them.

Shout that to the rooftops the same way you do when Pat Kelsey gets another job or Kyle Rudolph scores another TD.

 

[adselder09]

Anyone hearing issues with St Ursula and transfers?

I was told at a club soccer event over the weekend that MANY current families are disappointed/frustrated with St Ursula's continued infatuation and forcing of BLM, racism, white privilege, etc. on these girls. It's one thing to raise awareness but the SUA administration seems to be going overboard to the point many girls are looking at transfer options for 2021. We shall see.

I know a family who sent a couple of daughters there, graduated and older now but they laughed at how silly it was when they renamed their soccer complex after it had been named after Marge Schott for many years.

 

[adselder09]

And this is always the excuse - “we can’t control it”. You absolutely can.

Market minority student success. Market public school kid success. Market the success of alums that ARENT famous, you know, like 99.9% of what will become of your graduates. Market inclusive efforts. All of those things are happening - let people know about them.

Shout that to the rooftops the same way you do when Pat Kelsey gets another job or Kyle Rudolph scores another TD.

Not that I don't think what you're saying is a good idea, because it is. I just don't believe it would change much, especially in the short-term. Long term, maybe. And that maybe alone is enough to try it IMO.

I also don't think you an EHSF02 are talking along the same lines in terms of what's under their control and what isn't.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

And this is always the excuse - “we can’t control it”. You absolutely can.

Market minority student success. Market public school kid success. Market the success of alums that ARENT famous, you know, like 99.9% of what will become of your graduates. Market inclusive efforts. All of those things are happening - let people know about them.

Shout that to the rooftops the same way you do when Pat Kelsey gets another job or Kyle Rudolph scores another TD.

They have a nice alumni news section in the alumni magazine they send out. They could start doing a weekly or monthly alumni spotlight on their social media pages. This would take some work though, because what you're talking about you can't 10 seconds to easily share an online news article like you see with the popular sports alumni who have made it big like Rudolph, Wood, Kelsey, Brown, McQuaide. This would actually take a little outreach to gather information. I guess they could just choose a few to copy out of the alumni magazine.

In Elder's defense, Rudolph built them a multi-million dollar athletic center and is bringing a huge fundraiser with the Darius Rucker concert. Elder absolutely should be "shouting from the rooftops" every chance they get about Rudolph.

 

[UCArch]

They have a nice alumni news section in the alumni magazine they send out. They could start doing a weekly or monthly alumni spotlight on their social media pages. This would take some work though, because what you're talking about you can't 10 seconds to easily share an online news article like you see with the popular sports alumni who have made it big like Rudolph, Wood, Kelsey, Brown, McQuaide. This would actually take a little outreach to gather information. I guess they could just choose a few to copy out of the alumni magazine.

In Elder's defense, Rudolph built them a multi-million dollar athletic center and is bringing a huge fundraiser with the Darius Rucker concert. Elder absolutely should be "shouting from the rooftops" every chance they get about Rudolph.

I absolutely agree on Rudolph, those are things they should be playing up as well. But they are missing the mark on people outside of that athletic bubble.

The point is to get the message out of the Elder bubble. You can tell people are hesitant, even in some of the responses.

And my theory is they know an expanded reach means less opportunity for the Elder people.

 

[adselder09]

And my theory is they know an expanded reach means less opportunity for the Elder people.

You've been saying this for years under your various screen names. It isn't nearly as true or prevalent as you try to make people believe. Just because YOU feel that way, doesn't make it so.

 

[SMARTY22]

Anyone hearing issues with St Ursula and transfers?

I was told at a club soccer event over the weekend that MANY current families are disappointed/frustrated with St Ursula's continued infatuation and forcing of BLM, racism, white privilege, etc. on these girls. It's one thing to raise awareness but the SUA administration seems to be going overboard to the point many girls are looking at transfer options for 2021. We shall see.

Money talks. Hopefully many families send their daughters any place besides SU. Stop giving money to places that encourage and support the blm crap!

 

[UCArch]

You've been saying this for years under your various screen names. It isn't nearly as true or prevalent as you try to make people believe. Just because YOU feel that way, doesn't make it

And you continue to want to make it some evil conspiracy. Cause they don’t market to minorities, that’s pretty much a given.

When you say you want to be diverse, and you don’t market opportunity to minorities, do you really want to be diverse? the answer is in reality, not what people think.

 

[UCArch]

It’s pretty simple, just show me. Shut me up. Show me evidence of them marketing minority success.

 

[Falcon11]

Not directly. I'm just downplaying the impact of the cheering section incident. It was a terrible incident, but I don't think it's had the impact other people do. I think there are outside things at play affecting Elder enrollment diversity that Elder can't control.

I'd challenge you to step outside of your normal social circles if you think that incident, four years ago or not, doesn't still affect the way people think about Elder. The Elder community has moved past it. But when a minority student has a decision between Elder and another school, and his parents/friends remember the cheering section thing, that's an immediate knock. Elder = Racist in the minds of many minorities (especially the black communities) around Cincinnati, and that was BEFORE the cheering section thing.

 

[ElderMackStud]

The good in having multiple generations of Elder fans creates another hurdle for non-traditional kids to go to Elder is the culture of the Elder fans. Most Elder parents-fans sit/hang out/tail gate with people they have been hanging out with for years so it is hard to break into the fold. Parents want to be part of the experience. A couple buddies of mine went to St X and grew up on the westside of town. Sons went to Elder/played sports but they felt left out of all the pre-game parent activities and they know Elder people. At St X, all the football parents tailgate in one spot, yes there are your little “groups” but all the food and people are in one area.

 

[UCArch]

The good in having multiple generations of Elder fans creates another hurdle for non-traditional kids to go to Elder is the culture of the Elder fans. Most Elder parents-fans sit/hang out/tail gate with people they have been hanging out with for years so it is hard to break into the fold. Parents want to be part of the experience. A couple buddies of mine went to St X and grew up on the westside of town. Sons went to Elder/played sports but they felt left out of all the pre-game parent activities and they know Elder people. At St X, all the football parents tailgate in one spot, yes there are your little “groups” but all the food and people are in one area.

It’s an excellent point, and one that continues to echo with people that feel outside of that bubble. It’s a real thing, and elder people refuse to acknowledge it.

It is unconscious turf protection. A blind spot.