DIII State Semifinal: Chardon vs. Toledo Central Catholic

Who wins?

  • Chardon by 1-8

    Votes: 22 23.9%

  • Chardon by 9-16

    Votes: 3 3.3%

  • Chardon by 17+

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Toledo Central Catholic by 1-8

    Votes: 6 6.5%

  • Toledo Central Catholic by 9-16

    Votes: 32 34.8%

  • Toledo Central Catholic by 17+

    Votes: 28 30.4%
  • Total voters
    92
HooleyHouse22 said:
We all realize that, but those teams are 2nd tier private school football programs they aren’t even in the same stratosphere as Hoban, TCC, St Ed’s, old school Ignatius. Showed last night you guys rushed for like 67 yards on 30 Carries. All I’m saying is please don’t call Hudson, Avon, Riverside, Medina Highland, Medina whiners because they have to climb a way different hill than what Chardon has had to climb. Be thankful the chips fell how they did with Competitive Balance.
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Agree with the 2nd tier private school rebuttal. I disagree with calling those public school whiners. Please go back and look at my past posts. I’ve never called them whiners and I’m against separating public and private.
 
motionlead25 said:
I wish this competitive balance/public-private debate would end. Toledo Central Catholic is D3 this year—determined by enrollment and competitive balance. That means zero amount of excuses and whining will put them elsewhere. To be the best, you have to beat the best. Proud of our boys for competing as hard as they did, but Toledo Central Catholic was just the better team. We didn’t complain and whine when we beat Desales and Badin in 20 and 21. We just aren’t the best team in division 3 this year—that simple.

To our seniors: thank you so much for all the dedication you’ve put into this program over the last four years, it’s truly been something special and a pleasure to watch! All of Chardon is proud of you!

To the underclassman: you have now seen the best, time to get to work. We know you’ll be hungry as ever next year! Go Topper!
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Very well said. Great representation from Chardon. You have a great mentality, if only more people had your view in life.
 
Sorry to see the Hilltopper season end. But, good luck to the Toledo Central College Irish in the Ohio Highschool Divsion III championship.
 
Snowbelt Man said:
TCC had 8 people in their band and one of them was the band director. Reminds me of when we played defending state champ SVSM in 2014. They had 13 people in their band and 90 guys on the sideline. I guess musicians just don't like catholic schools. What bothers me a little bit is that these guys think that they are great coaches.
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They had to reduce enrollment somewhere. No more "Scholarships" for band...
 
Actually to see what is important to the TCC folks... go to thier website. Look at the news for TCC schools...and what you will see is athletics, athletics, athletics. Look at the Chardon Schools website...what a difference. The websites shows the many diverse areas which are important. And the giving back the Football team has lead this fall.
 
topperbounce said:
We’ve beaten Walsh Jesuit, Columbus DeSales, and Hamilton Badin in Final 4 and State Champion games. It will take a while for our 3 for 4 success rate to get to your percentage.
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Youd be 0-4 if TCC and Hoban had stayed in D3, and youd be 0 for the next 10. I like Chardon and was very happy for their success but don’t act above D1/D2 publics like you know something they don’t.
 
Freak Hands said:
Maybe vouchers and "scholarships" from donors and non taxable donations arent allowed to be used for kids who want to play in the marching band?
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Yep- scholarships. If they exist (they don't), one might argue that it puts faith-based schools at equal footing with public schools.

Remind me again how much it costs to attend a public school? Would you agree that public school tuition is based on a "scholarship" from taxpayers?
 
mcgarry72 said:
Yep- scholarships. If they exist (they don't), one might argue that it puts faith-based schools at equal footing with public schools.

Remind me again how much it costs to attend a public school? Would you agree that public school tuition is based on a "scholarship" from taxpayers?
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catholictimescolumbus.org

CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WEEK: New Ohio program offers tax credit for tuition assistance

A tax credit recently made available by the state of Ohio will reduce state income taxes for people who wish to support Catholic education by contributing to diocesan schools to help families pay...
catholictimescolumbus.org catholictimescolumbus.org
When a student attends a public school, they do so because (in general) the parent/parents has moved into said district and pays the appropriate property taxes (which is for school, road, police, fire, administration) in order for their child to attend the district of their choice. There is "open enrollment" in some counties, but if the district doesnt have room for an "out of district" student that student can not attend. No amount of tuition assistance or donations will change that. The football coaching staff can not hand pick students/football players to move into a district in order to improve the quality of their team. Private/catholic schools can promote their educational sports programs to lure students to said school and entice them by offering "tuition assistance" (not property tax assistance) aka "scholarship."
Anyone is now allowed to make a tax deductible donation to catholic schools. How many donations are tax deductible to public schools? Exactly where do catholic schools spend that money? IT investment? Buildings and maintenance? Teaching staff? Student tuition (including players, band members, stem students? Is the catholic diocese required to make that public? Can anyone request the background information from a catholic schools football roster to see where they reside or if they transferred to the school? Public schools are required to provide all expenditures to tax payers when requested. Scholarships dont exist? Sure, not in name. NCAA football "scholarships" arent supposed to be available for D3 schools, but i personally know several football players who have attended D3 college on a non football "scholarship" "wink wink" so they can play football. Its all about semantics and word games. Sure there are no "wink wink" scholarships. I have relatives that have worked in public schools for years and several friends that coach for NE ohio high school teams (kirtland, eastlake north to name two) and i can guarantee you that there are football players that are recruited. Word gets around in those circles, these coaches arent stupid. They see whats happening.
 
mcgarry72 said:
Yep- scholarships. If they exist (they don't), one might argue that it puts faith-based schools at equal footing with public schools.

Remind me again how much it costs to attend a public school? Would you agree that public school tuition is based on a "scholarship" from taxpayers?
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And by the way, you'll notice the article says "tuition assistance" which is word salad or "scholarship". Most people are smart enough to see thru it all.
 
With Dewine signing into Law the expansion of Ed choice funds in July of this year,this only continue to get worse.
 
Read into the expansion of the bill passed. The adjustment of the sliding scale for scholarships ( which is what the state calls it). A lot more taxpayer dollars are going to be going to private schools. Which is fine,the youth needs to be educated but private schools are getting more of taxpayer money and they don't have to follow the same rules. Example, allocation of money they receive.
It's all in the Literature of bill passed in July.
 
coreman said:
Read into the expansion of the bill passed. The adjustment of the sliding scale for scholarships ( which is what the state calls it). A lot more taxpayer dollars are going to be going to private schools. Which is fine,the youth needs to be educated but private schools are getting more of taxpayer money and they don't have to follow the same rules. Example, allocation of money they receive.
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How is that a problem? Money follows the student. Same stipend for student enrolled in an accredited school, irrespective of institution or educational system.
 
Freak Hands comment was pretty thorough on it,with the state allocating more money to Ed choice private schools are going to continue to build there programs. Personally as a taxpayers I want my money to stay in the area I reside when it pertains to schooling. Those are the kids and families that are apart of the community you live and apart of.
But this a topic that has been discussed many times,and everyone has there own opinion on it and could go on forever about,it just has more money going to it now.
 
Freak Hands said:
catholictimescolumbus.org

CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WEEK: New Ohio program offers tax credit for tuition assistance

A tax credit recently made available by the state of Ohio will reduce state income taxes for people who wish to support Catholic education by contributing to diocesan schools to help families pay...
catholictimescolumbus.org catholictimescolumbus.org
When a student attends a public school, they do so because (in general) the parent/parents has moved into said district and pays the appropriate property taxes (which is for school, road, police, fire, administration) in order for their child to attend the district of their choice. There is "open enrollment" in some counties, but if the district doesnt have room for an "out of district" student that student can not attend. No amount of tuition assistance or donations will change that. The football coaching staff can not hand pick students/football players to move into a district in order to improve the quality of their team. Private/catholic schools can promote their educational sports programs to lure students to said school and entice them by offering "tuition assistance" (not property tax assistance) aka "scholarship."
Anyone is now allowed to make a tax deductible donation to catholic schools. How many donations are tax deductible to public schools? Exactly where do catholic schools spend that money? IT investment? Buildings and maintenance? Teaching staff? Student tuition (including players, band members, stem students? Is the catholic diocese required to make that public? Can anyone request the background information from a catholic schools football roster to see where they reside or if they transferred to the school? Public schools are required to provide all expenditures to tax payers when requested. Scholarships dont exist? Sure, not in name. NCAA football "scholarships" arent supposed to be available for D3 schools, but i personally know several football players who have attended D3 college on a non football "scholarship" "wink wink" so they can play football. Its all about semantics and word games. Sure there are no "wink wink" scholarships. I have relatives that have worked in public schools for years and several friends that coach for NE ohio high school teams (kirtland, eastlake north to name two) and i can guarantee you that there are football players that are recruited. Word gets around in those circles, these coaches arent stupid. They see whats happening.
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Let's be clear - I pay taxes for public schools even though my children went to Catholic schools So do others in my neighborhood who don't have school-age children. To use your analogy - we are making donations to the public school, through taxes, to provide "scholarships". Your response states that it is the parents of the children paying taxes - true, but they are not the only ones paying.

And you can make a donation to a public school in addition to your tax dollars that are already going there.

All Catholic schools that I know of publish an annual report that details their expenditures. Feel free to request one from the school of your choice..

I am done with the topic - other than it is very obvious that some don't want equal competition with the private schools through programs like Ed Choice. I assume the concern is that most families, acting in their children's best interest, will choose the private school if cost isn't an obstacle. Otherwise, why are you afraid of the competition?
 
coreman said:
Personally as a taxpayers I want my money to stay in the area I reside when it pertains to schooling.
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Where do you live that doesn't have a private school nearby? Perhaps in the same town. Perhaps even closer to your house than the public HS.

coreman said:
Those are the kids and families that are apart of the community you live and apart of.
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So are your next-door neighbors who send their kids to a different school. Do you really shun people who make a different choice for their family?
 
simkon said:
Sorry it wasn't clear this was hyperbole and I was being facetious. Of course they should play the games, I was just saying that jokingly. However I am 100% serious about Chardon's horrendous performance.
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Simpleton,

You have been touting TCC all year. That is right after you explain how the top 8 R9 schools are ranked 2-9 in your D3 state rankings. I guess lowly Watterson has no chance and will likely end up #15 or so in the final D3 polls.......
 
irish_buffalo said:
An incredible and purposeful advantage that Columbian and Chardon do not have.
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It didn’t affect Columbian in 2004 when they beat them 24-0. SJJ and St Francis have the same exact advantages yet do hardly anything with it. Give the Irish credit, they’ve built an incredible program that maximizes players potential without a lot of the advantages that the other two private schools in Toledo have.

It really didn’t get rolling until 2005 anyways, until then they were Toledo’s 4th team. Even then Whitmer had that heavyweight run from 2009-2013
 
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smurfyeah19 said:
It didn’t affect Columbian in 2004 when they beat them 24-0. SJJ and St Francis have the same exact advantages yet do hardly anything with it. Give the Irish credit, they’ve built an incredible program that maximizes players potential without a lot of the advantages that the other two private schools in Toledo have.

It really didn’t get rolling until 2005 anyways, until then they were Toledo’s 4th team. Even then Whitmer had that heavyweight run from 2009-2013
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EdChoice was not around in 2004. Local publics still had a chance and Central Catholic still had...Catholics.

I give zero credit. The Whitmer run pushed Dempsey to go further. He then had any threat to him run off by turning other schools into OSHAA (Palka, Hedden, Chipka) which is of course laughable, but worked. Oh yeah, and player development has been poor.
 
irish_buffalo said:
EdChoice was not around in 2004. Local publics still had a chance and Central Catholic still had...Catholics.

I give zero credit. The Whitmer run pushed Dempsey to go further. He then had any threat to him run off by turning other schools into OSHAA (Palka, Hedden, Chipka) which is of course laughable, but worked. Oh yeah, and player development has been poor.
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🤡🤡🤡
 
Final end of season ranking from Drew Pasteur and Massey

Drew Pasteur's Ohio Fantastic 50
Ohio High School Football Rankings and Predictions
Follow the Fantastic 50 on Twitter for the latest updates.

Division III rankings
Updated 02-Dec-2023 10:31PM
Week 16 complete
Scores & schedules courtesy of Joe Eitel

1. #4 Toledo Central Catholic (16-0 D3 R10)
2. #16 Chardon (11-4 D3 R9)
3. #23 Ursuline (13-1 D3 R9)
4. #26 Wapakoneta (10-3 D3 R12)
5. #34 Bishop Watterson (14-2 D3 R11)
6. #47 Badin (13-1 D3 R12)
7. #51 Villa Angela-St Joseph (9-4 D3 R9)
8. #53 London (11-1 D3 R11)
9. #62 Tiffin Columbian (11-3 D3 R10)
10. #65 Kenston (10-2 D3 R9)
11. #69 Geneva (10-2 D3 R9)
12. #71 Aurora (11-2 D3 R9)
13. #74 Trotwood-Madison (9-3 D3 R12)
14. #75 Celina (12-3 D3 R12)
15. #81 Canfield (7-4 D3 R9)
16. #82 Bloom-Carroll (10-3 D3 R11)
17. #85 Bellefontaine (11-3 D3 R11)
18. #91 Mansfield Senior (10-3 D3 R10)
19. #95 Bellbrook (8-4 D3 R12)
20. #102 Norton (11-1 D3 R10)
21. #108 Jackson (10-2 D3 R11)
22. #113 Dover (6-5 D3 R9)
23. #115 Tri-Valley (9-3 D3 R11)
24. #130 Granville (12-1 D3 R11)
25. #132 Ontario (10-2 D3 R10)

1701919827007.png
 
TriangleMan said:
Final end of season ranking from Drew Pasteur and Massey

Drew Pasteur's Ohio Fantastic 50
Ohio High School Football Rankings and Predictions
Follow the Fantastic 50 on Twitter for the latest updates.

Division III rankings
Updated 02-Dec-2023 10:31PM
Week 16 complete
Scores & schedules courtesy of Joe Eitel

1. #4 Toledo Central Catholic (16-0 D3 R10)
2. #16 Chardon (11-4 D3 R9)
3. #23 Ursuline (13-1 D3 R9)
4. #26 Wapakoneta (10-3 D3 R12)
5. #34 Bishop Watterson (14-2 D3 R11)
6. #47 Badin (13-1 D3 R12)
7. #51 Villa Angela-St Joseph (9-4 D3 R9)
8. #53 London (11-1 D3 R11)
9. #62 Tiffin Columbian (11-3 D3 R10)
10. #65 Kenston (10-2 D3 R9)
11. #69 Geneva (10-2 D3 R9)
12. #71 Aurora (11-2 D3 R9)
13. #74 Trotwood-Madison (9-3 D3 R12)
14. #75 Celina (12-3 D3 R12)
15. #81 Canfield (7-4 D3 R9)
16. #82 Bloom-Carroll (10-3 D3 R11)
17. #85 Bellefontaine (11-3 D3 R11)
18. #91 Mansfield Senior (10-3 D3 R10)
19. #95 Bellbrook (8-4 D3 R12)
20. #102 Norton (11-1 D3 R10)
21. #108 Jackson (10-2 D3 R11)
22. #113 Dover (6-5 D3 R9)
23. #115 Tri-Valley (9-3 D3 R11)
24. #130 Granville (12-1 D3 R11)
25. #132 Ontario (10-2 D3 R10)

View attachment 51056
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This is pretty stupid. Watty beat Chardon and I'm guessing TCC fans will agree that Watterson is better as well. Also Chardon was 1-4 vs D3 top 10 and Watterson was 2-1 vs D3 top 10 (including beating tiffin who beat Chardon). Super bias.
 
watty1991 said:
This is pretty stupid. Watty beat Chardon and I'm guessing TCC fans will agree that Watterson is better as well. Also Chardon was 1-4 vs D3 top 10 and Watterson was 2-1 vs D3 top 10 (including beating tiffin who beat Chardon). Super bias.
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I agree with you. Math and algorithms can only take you so far. A human element is always needed. Bishop Watterson beat Chardon and played TCC tougher. They should be ranked higher.
 
@watty1991 @CCHS93
Final D-III Rankings from an unlisted website
1. TCC
2. Ursuline
3. Bishop Watterson
4. Chardon
5. St. Joe's
5. Canfield
7. Kenston
8. Aurora
9. Badin
10. Geneva

In this ranking I am not sure why Ursuline is above Watterson. I know one thing for sure as I said all along since before the season started, TCC was far and away the best team in D-III this year as was proven by the results on the field.
 
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