CFP National Championship: #11 Ohio State vs #1 Alabama

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I know LSU was phenomenal offensively last year, but I have no idea how Bama lost multiple games with Tua and Mac Jones at QB, Harris at RB, and Smith, Waddle, Ruggs, Jeudy, and Metchie on the perimeter. That's a stupid amount of offensive talent.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
Meh, I was not super-impressed with Coombs last night. Don't get me wrong, he's not an awful coach or anything, I just saw instances where they could have staunched the bleeding a bit. His reluctance to take Tuf Borland off the field for Lathan Ransom is one example. You can't ask Tuf to do the amount of things he was asked to do last night. Does that win the game for OSU? Of course not. But it just seemed odd, IMO.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Pretty good call, except they needed to be about +5.

And I was entertained by Buckeye fans who was really ripping their defense and coordinator Kerry Combs. Bama did this to everyone, all season. You don't see offenses like that in the big ten.
How would their offense perform in 20 degree weather, a 25 mph sustained wind, or freezing rain?
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Meh, I was not super-impressed with Coombs last night. Don't get me wrong, he's not an awful coach or anything, I just saw instances where they could have staunched the bleeding a bit. His reluctance to take Tuf Borland off the field for Lathan Ransom is one example. You can't ask Tuf to do the amount of things he was asked to do last night. Does that win the game for OSU? Of course not. But it just seemed odd, IMO.

Wasn't Coombs and the defense missing a couple of starting D-linemen?

Wasn't Bama's offense loaded with guys who will be starting in the NFL next year including an O-Tackle, a QB, a WR, a TE and a RB?

Do you really think replacing Borland with Ransom would have made any difference? Would Ransom have covered Smith on that TD pass any closer?
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Here's the deal with college football. For the 2nd straight year the SEC has produced a super team that could not be beaten no matter how many coulda/woulda/shoulda we throw out.

And please don't waste time arguing against this. Look at how many of last years LSU players are starting and excelling in the NFL as rookies this year. Last night Bama's QB, WR, TE, a couple of O-linemen and their RB will be starting in the NFL as rookies. There is a talent discrepancy growing that threatens competitive balance in college football.

So the question become is this just a two year aberration or do the new transfer rules along with the distribution of talent mean this will now become the norm?
 

utsherman

Well-known member
Wasn't Coombs and the defense missing a couple of starting D-linemen?

Wasn't Bama's offense loaded with guys who will be starting in the NFL next year including an O-Tackle, a QB, a WR, a TE and a RB?

Do you really think replacing Borland with Ransom would have made any difference? Would Ransom have covered Smith on that TD pass any closer?
Coombs was missing Tyreke Smith and Tommy Togiai on the D-line, yes. And clearly Bama is loaded. That was never a question. I stated that subbing Ransom for Borland does not win the game for OSU. I thought that was pretty clear. Borland is a hell of a player in his own right, but he shouldn't be covering Smith down the field. Ransom clearly has more speed. I don't even think that's debatable. 🤷‍♂️
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Here's the deal with college football. For the 2nd straight year the SEC has produced a super team that could not be beaten no matter how many coulda/woulda/shoulda we throw out.

And please don't waste time arguing against this. Look at how many of last years LSU players are starting and excelling in the NFL as rookies this year. Last night Bama's QB, WR, TE, a couple of O-linemen and their RB will be starting in the NFL as rookies. There is a talent discrepancy growing that threatens competitive balance in college football.

So the question become is this just a two year aberration or do the new transfer rules along with the distribution of talent mean this will now become the norm?ruitin

There may be some weird discrepancies between transfer rules and especially with this year extended eligibility...but recruiting wise there is definitely an increasing lopsidedness in talent between sun belt and rust belt. One has a growing population that trends younger while the other has a stagnant population that's aging. It's simply math where the prospects are at. Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan and whoever else will increasingly have to dip into those areas for talent...and they should get their fair share as an increasing number of people in those states have midwestern connections. Increasingly, I don't see Ohio State as recruiting out-of-state in the traditional sense when dipping into Texas, Florida and Georgia. Garrett Wilson is a prime example.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Coombs was missing Tyreke Smith and Tommy Togiai on the D-line, yes. And clearly Bama is loaded. That was never a question. I stated that subbing Ransom for Borland does not win the game for OSU. I thought that was pretty clear. Borland is a hell of a player in his own right, but he shouldn't be covering Smith down the field. Ransom clearly has more speed. I don't even think that's debatable. 🤷‍♂️

I think Coombs would agree with you 100% that Borland should not be covering Smith downfield. That was either a screw up or a brilliant design by Bama. But it hardly warranted changing players. Except for that play I didn't see speed as a big problem for the OSU LB's it was the fact that future NFL special teams & practice squad guys were going up against NFL starters.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
There may be some weird discrepancies between transfer rules and especially with this year extended eligibility...but recruiting wise there is definitely an increasing lopsidedness in talent between sun belt and rust belt. One has a growing population that trends younger while the other has a stagnant population that's aging. It's simply math where the prospects are at. Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan and whoever else will increasingly have to dip into those areas for talent...and they should get their fair share as an increasing number of people in those states have midwestern connections. Increasingly, I don't see Ohio State as recruiting out-of-state in the traditional sense when dipping into Texas, Florida and Georgia. Garrett Wilson is a prime example.

There is truth to this and I also think that the coaching, from top to bottom, is much better in the SEC then the other conferences. Part of this is just how much money they're willing to commit.

But a counter argument to a geographical argument is that the Big 12 isn't as good as the B1G and it enjoys many of the same climate and population advantages.

Like most things in life it's probably a combination of all these factors which means that Ohio States margin for error is reduced. You know things like letting a Heisman Trophy winning, first pick in the NFL, QB get away. Without Burrow last year LSU is not unbeatable.

And let's give credit to Saban. If it was Meyer or Day, would Mac Jones have been given a fair shot at winning the starting QB job this year? Especially in light of a 5 star recruit waiting in the wings? My guess is Buckeye nation over the summer would have been clamoring for the 5 star kid and Day might not have been as impartial in Spring Practice to hand the job to Jones.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
I think Coombs would agree with you 100% that Borland should not be covering Smith downfield. That was either a screw up or a brilliant design by Bama. But it hardly warranted changing players. Except for that play I didn't see speed as a big problem for the OSU LB's it was the fact that future NFL special teams & practice squad guys were going up against NFL starters.
We can agree to disagree on some of this. I'm not suggesting that Borland should have been pulled, it's a package change based upon the scheme, down and distance, etc. Just as Coombs decided to play soft coverage for the majority of the night to keep everything in front of them. They wanted to test that linebacker speed from sideline to sideline. I didn't expect OSU to win going in, but also didn't expect a 28 point debacle - nor did the wiseguys in Vegas. Both teams had starting NFL talent all over the field, especially on offense. Defense? Not so much. Ole Miss and Flordia had already shown us that Bama's defense is human. OSU is more the aberration than the rule where a BIG 10 vs SEC debate is concerned, IMO. But congrats to Saban, as he's clearly the GOAT. I will be interested to see how Spring Ball materializes this year so we can start to see some development at both QB and the backend of that defense. We clearly missed some critical games to test the depth.
 

14Red

Well-known member
How would their offense perform in 20 degree weather, a 25 mph sustained wind, or freezing rain?
Always love that argument from the north. Ohio State's offense wouldn't perform well in it either. No one wants to play in 20 degree 25 MPH wind and freezing rain. And when we can have fans again, no one wants to go to games in these conditions either.
 

AugMer

Member
There is truth to this and I also think that the coaching, from top to bottom, is much better in the SEC then the other conferences. Part of this is just how much money they're willing to commit.

But a counter argument to a geographical argument is that the Big 12 isn't as good as the B1G and it enjoys many of the same climate and population advantages.

Like most things in life it's probably a combination of all these factors which means that Ohio States margin for error is reduced. You know things like letting a Heisman Trophy winning, first pick in the NFL, QB get away. Without Burrow last year LSU is not unbeatable.

And let's give credit to Saban. If it was Meyer or Day, would Mac Jones have been given a fair shot at winning the starting QB job this year? Especially in light of a 5 star recruit waiting in the wings? My guess is Buckeye nation over the summer would have been clamoring for the 5 star kid and Day might not have been as impartial in Spring Practice to hand the job to Jones.
I am not sure on the coaching aspect. Given talent discrepancies on some teams I would say Big Ten coaches are some of the best given what they are dealt. Pretty much all of them except for Ohio State who recruits just as well as anyone, and then Michigan and Penn State who are also right there, they do a really good job with what they have available.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Yeah, I really don't get ripping Coombs. If they had all of their guys up front it might have been worth a score. They didn't have nearly the horses to try to run with somebody of that level as they had last year with first rounders Chase Young on the edge and Okudah and Arnett on the corners.

This had to be a near perfect game, and they didn't have nearly enough big plays/takeaways defensively and they missed too many opportunities on offense. For the current Meyer/Day run they've been on this was a pretty average team by OSU standards and they ended up getting whacked by what's probably an all-time great Bama offense. Sometimes the other team really is just better, and there's no shame in it.
No doubt about that. I would had liked to see last year's defense vs. this Bama offense, but that's kind of cycles of college football. Bama's defense is actually kind of young now so they may be more defensive oriented next season.
Buckeyes didn't get much of a rush on Jones except for one play and it surprised him so much that he fumbled. Other than that, he had a pretty clean pocket most of the night. Trever Lawrence had no time last week. Really hard to be critical of Coombs though, I mean do you play soft and make them go 8-10 plays to score, or press and give up the REALLY big plays? I do feel Ohio State fans are somewhat spoiled because you simply do not see speed and talent like that in the big ten, not even close. A big ten team may have A receiver that is good, but not multiples, and add a running game, good o-line, etc.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I am not sure on the coaching aspect. Given talent discrepancies on some teams I would say Big Ten coaches are some of the best given what they are dealt. Pretty much all of them except for Ohio State who recruits just as well as anyone, and then Michigan and Penn State who are also right there, they do a really good job with what they have available.
I think coaches are blamed more than they should be and given credit more than they should be. I mean you have to look at the talent on the field. Speed, size and talent become very easy to coach, and difficult if you don't have it.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
When going in most Ohio State fans realized it would take 45+ to win the game ya do not really have a reason to blast Coombs for last night.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
And let's give credit to Saban. If it was Meyer or Day, would Mac Jones have been given a fair shot at winning the starting QB job this year? Especially in light of a 5 star recruit waiting in the wings? My guess is Buckeye nation over the summer would have been clamoring for the 5 star kid and Day might not have been as impartial in Spring Practice to hand the job to Jones.

Meyer refused to Bench JT Barrett when fans were clamoring for Haskins. And Day hasn't encountered that situation yet, at least at QB, and he hasn't done anything yet, in my eyes, to say he wouldn't have given a fair chance. For instance, 4* Jarron Cage and Matt Jones got the start over 5* Taron Vincent and Harry Miller last night.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
When going in most Ohio State fans realized it would take 45+ to win the game ya do not really have a reason to blast Coombs for last night.

Coombs deserves plenty of blame. They were getting cooked on schemes and he didn't make any adjustments. But yeah, there is plenty to blame the offense for too.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
No doubt about that. I would had liked to see last year's defense vs. this Bama offense, but that's kind of cycles of college football. Bama's defense is actually kind of young now so they may be more defensive oriented next season.
Buckeyes didn't get much of a rush on Jones except for one play and it surprised him so much that he fumbled. Other than that, he had a pretty clean pocket most of the night. Trever Lawrence had no time last week. Really hard to be critical of Coombs though, I mean do you play soft and make them go 8-10 plays to score, or press and give up the REALLY big plays? I do feel Ohio State fans are somewhat spoiled because you simply do not see speed and talent like that in the big ten, not even close. A big ten team may have A receiver that is good, but not multiples, and add a running game, good o-line, etc.

Very big difference in style for the most part between Alabama and Clemson. The bulk of Alabama's passing plays are short quick throws trying to just get their guys into space to make a play. I don't think Tyreke Smith would have helped a whole lot as compared to what he did against Clemson on the edge with more time to get pressure. Jones is a statue in the pocket, but to get consistent pressure against their quick hitting style you have to either have freaks on the edge like Chase Young that can bull rush through single blockers or blitz nonstop bringing numbers and hope the back end holds up.

The quality and depth Alabama has had this year and last year in the skill positions has been better than anyone. No one else is even in the ballpark.

Besides the talent the schemes from Sarkisian were phenomenal. They did a great job of moving guys around and of using false movement to create confusion and manipulate space.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
Coombs deserves plenty of blame. They were getting cooked on schemes and he didn't make any adjustments. But yeah, there is plenty to blame the offense for too.
Maybe they saw something they thought they could stop by playing 4-4. Maybe they went to a 4-4 knowing they didn't have enough linemen to do their normal rotation. Maybe they should have adjusted sooner. Who came up with the D scheme against Clemson?
There were a few keys to this loss.
1. Alabama is really good.
2. Trey Sermon getting hurt the first play from scrimmage. (I don't think it was dirty and I think the damage was done when he hit the ground.)
3. tOSU secondary has been mediocre (at best) all year.
4. Missing a couple really key D players.
5. Having only one proven RB to come in for Sermon with Williams being out.
There are probably a few more that rate above 'defensive scheme'.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
Mac doesn’t get enough credit for being an excellent quarterback
Being a Heisman finalist isn't enough?
You do realize
Smith was first.
Jones was third.
Harris was fifth.
Alabama had 3 people on offense respected more than Fields (who was seventh).
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I don't think it really made much of a difference, but the 4-4 look against quick hitting passes leaves too many slower linebackers chasing in space sideline to sideline. I'd assume this was a compromise look to try to offset being thin up front to try to help against the run and to give more options if they blitzed.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Maybe they saw something they thought they could stop by playing 4-4. Maybe they went to a 4-4 knowing they didn't have enough linemen to do their normal rotation. Maybe they should have adjusted sooner. Who came up with the D scheme against Clemson?
There were a few keys to this loss.
1. Alabama is really good.
2. Trey Sermon getting hurt the first play from scrimmage. (I don't think it was dirty and I think the damage was done when he hit the ground.)
3. tOSU secondary has been mediocre (at best) all year.
4. Missing a couple really key D players.
5. Having only one proven RB to come in for Sermon with Williams being out.
There are probably a few more that rate above 'defensive scheme'.

I didn't say defensive scheme was the only reason, or even the biggest reason, they lost. Voice said there was no reason to blast Coombs. Coombs got outcoached, weather they saw something they thought they could stop or not. As such, he deserves some blame.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Always love that argument from the north. Ohio State's offense wouldn't perform well in it either. No one wants to play in 20 degree 25 MPH wind and freezing rain. And when we can have fans again, no one wants to go to games in these conditions either.
Maybe so, but the point about Big 10 offenses is you have to be ready for the possibility of playing in those conditions, so they are designed as such.
 

zeeman

Well-known member
Being a Heisman finalist isn't enough?
You do realize
Smith was first.
Jones was third.
Harris was fifth.
Alabama had 3 people on offense respected more than Fields (who was seventh).
I’m more talking about draft rankings and his name among the top quarterbacks this year
 

falguin

Well-known member
This is just a simple one team had to wait and played only 7 games and had all kinds of covid issues and the other team played eleven and had no issues all year. OSU did not look into the game at all. They looked flat. Clearly Justin Fields is not close to 100 percent. Put the defensive starters on the line and Bama would have had trouble all night. Allow OSU eleven games to work out kinks and to get guys experience and these guys play much better. Alabama is a good team, but tOSU had a lot of issues this season. Even against Northwestern over 20 guys were out with covid. I'm not sure how many guys were out for this game, but the two out in the middle of the defensive line hurt the Buckeyes big time. Coombs's defensive plan was awful. Allowing them to just move down the field was stupid, and I did not see the defense improve over the year as much as normal. Now that may have been because of covid issues, but he needs to do better. OSU had a lot going against it in this game. This was the first time in a long time that they had to play back to back games. And anyone who has played football knows it takes games to get in shape. Practice can't duplicate it, especially when you can't practice because of covid.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
so he basically admits, he got this platform by being the guy he's complaining about but because he has "passion," he and people like him are the only one best to run a billion dollar organization? Naw. He flat out says he got his start as a sheep hunter. He's looking for an audience of those that self-identify as passionate about the game and with all the good ideas, believing they could actually run let alone grow this major organization even though none of them have internal knowledge, know the realities of the operations.

Is he making a point other than that?
 

Omar

Well-known member
so he basically admits, he got this platform by being the guy he's complaining about but because he has "passion," he and people like him are the only one best to run a billion dollar organization? Naw. He flat out says he got his start as a sheep hunter. He's looking for an audience of those that self-identify as passionate about the game and with all the good ideas, believing they could actually run let alone grow this major organization even though none of them have internal knowledge, know the realities of the operations.

Is he making a point other than that?
There’s an entire segment of college football writers who don’t like the sport. Particularly, the USA Today with Dan Wolken and Christine Brennan. He’s telling everyone to ignore them and stop engaging them, which is sound advice.
 
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