Extremely well put here... anybody remotely close to DeSales (or Watterson/Hartley for that matter) know that getting anything out of SC football is one of the biggest challenges around.
CCL 2021
- Thread starter Hartley1
- Start date
a_raider32
Active member
He was on the field coaching last night for London vs Ready 7 on 7.
trekie4life
New member
Not really familiar with St. Charles football but why do they seem to struggle so much? What are some of the issues if a well respected coach like Jacoby couldn't get it going?
Crabtree did pretty well at St.Charles??
FYI - Jacoby started to coach OL for DeSales a few years ago and quit after 2 weeks. Wouldn't taking care of your own mean you give some younger coaches who have put in the time a chance to move up? Bahen was in line to be OC... don't think everyone internally is so happy about bringing in 3 new coaches to the varsity program.
FYI - Jacoby started to coach OL for DeSales a few years ago and quit after 2 weeks. Wouldn't taking care of your own mean you give some younger coaches who have put in the time a chance to move up? Bahen was in line to be OC... don't think everyone internally is so happy about bringing in 3 new coaches to the varsity program.
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
"Pretty well" is relative. He went 13-9.
St. Charles has only defeated DeSales once in the last 45 years. The coach who beat DeSales (also beat Watterson that same year for Broad St's first CCL crown in generations) was fired two years later.
Guys like Larry Wolf and Tim Bahen wouldn't do well at St. Charles. Burchfield might (might) be able to win a playoff game with the Cards if he coached there, but it being 16-team regional admission for playoffs is the only guarantee. Under the previous 8-team admission? Unlikely.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
It's the sum of five things: 1) tradition/lack thereof, 2) marketing as a program, 3) marketing as a school, 4) lack of territorial pull, 5) single-sex vs coeducational
Tradition/Lack Thereof
Of the five Franklin County schools in the Diocese of Columbus, St. Charles has the least football tradition. As mentioned, it only has one CCL championship in ~50 years (2013.) It has zero playoff wins. Because the CCL schedule has always been two games (under the Gold/Silver alignment) or three games (current alignment), and the fact St. Charles is super-susceptible to waxing-and-waning periods (more on this later) they also never have an identity on their regular season. They play teams of varying sizes/competitiveness from all over the state (typically they lose to them) and in the local area they either get throttled by the OCC (see: games vs UA and Pick North) or pull off stunners now-and-then. Two years ago, they beat Scioto in week 1 and followed that up in October by only scoring eight (8) points in a losing effort versus a Division 7(!) public school.
They also have ran into issues with this last decade of kids getting ejected for fighting (weird for SC), and in one case they tried to play an ejected kid the week he should've been suspended.
Marketing as a Program
This goes hand-in-hand with the below two points and the point above. St. Charles has had some turnover (3 coaches in the last decade, including the ill-fated Jacoby regime.) DeSales and Hartley have had the same coaches for a decade plus. Wiggins (SFD) and Burchfield (BH) are known in the schools they rely on cultivating rapport, and later enrollment, out of. Again, SC the majority of time is mediocre at best. What passes for a "good" year at SC is a mediocre year at SFD and BH. Even with Watterson having an unusually rocky last decade, their prestige and tradition trumps that of St. Charles.
SFD, BH, and BW all have the bedrock of multiple, vibrant CYO organizations that correspond to their territories (which SC has neither of, CYO bedrock nor territorial advantage.) DeSales has the St. Anthony + St. Matthias + St. James the Less combined program that encapsulates the Linden area, they have the 45-50% attraction of kids out of St. Matthew in Gahanna as well as the similar (if not better) rate of attraction with St. Paul in Westerville. Hartley has the east side program of St. Catherine in Eastmoor + Christ the King in Berwick + Holy Spirit in Whitehall + St. Mary in German Village + St. Pius X of Reynoldsburg. Plus the plurality (or some years, majority) of kids that don't go to DeSales out of St. Matthew in Gahanna. Watterson has the Northwest Saints program (Agatha, Andrew, I believe Trinity/Our Lady of Victory in Grandview/Northwest Blvd adjacencies is also this), the Immaculate Conception-Our Lady of Peace combined program that services Catholics in Old North and Clintonville, and St. Michael in Worthington. I believe St. Brendan of Hillard and St. Brigid of Kildare (Dublin), where Urban Meyer's son went, also are feeders into BW.
St. Charles, meanwhile, has none of these. They just get a sprinkling of 25-30 football kids across the entire CYO: some are good, some are not great. It's a mis-mash. And you never really know who all you're getting, either.
Marketing as a School
St. Charles' academics are fantastic. Indisputably fantastic. Their curriculum is also very rigorous, and this is well-known. BH, BW and SFD also have tough academic schedules -- don't get it twisted -- but SC's is hardest. It is a widely-spoken belief (if not fact) that your first semester/freshman year at St. Charles determines whether or not you're going to make it there. For many parents, many parents, this seeps into their minds and the idea of trying to juggle football as new high school students at a school that will invariably kick your butts with homework and testing scares many kids *and their parents* away.
We are also in an age (21st century) and geography (Central Ohio) where a school such as St. Charles has to compete with high-end suburban districts (Dublin, Olentangy, Bexley, New Albany et al) for the well-heeled "super-academic" types as well as nonsectarian high-brow*high-standard college prep schools (e.g. Columbus Academy, Wellington). On the Catholic faith and private school atmosphere merits, alone, it competes directly with DeSales, Hartley, Watterson, Ready and to a certain extent even the outlying Catholic schools in Newark and Lancaster. If the personal value and opinion toward athletic excellence is on the same bar as academic excellence, SC is losing out 95-99% of the time on incoming Catholic freshmen to those schools. If being a part of a solid football and wrestling program means as much to a kid as does their schooling, they're going to DeSales or Hartley. Not SC.
Territorial Pull
See the above. The only geography in Columbus/Columbus metro that St. Charles has any direct leaning on has been the East Side of Columbus, which has been withered away by the resurgence of Bishop Hartley these last 15-20 years. In every aspect. Football, academics, faith. Getting kids that live in northern Franklin/southern Delaware Counties is great for SC -- it's not reliable, though. Not nearly the way it used to be, or could be, with St. Charles being a bully on the block for any geography east of I-71.
Single Sex vs. Coeducational
It's an all-boys school. Hard sell these days. Especially to middle-class families who have boys and girls within a couple years of the other. The co-eds win out most of the time on those families.
Coach Bahen was a HC for a minute at a small school east of Columbus. He has spent the last couple of years doing Color commentary on the Pouring Purple broadcasts and Bleeds Purple from head to toe. Hasn't been on the sidelines in at least 2-3 years. Crabtree was brought in to replace Cromwell who left somewhat on his own. As a young Coach on a staff you get the chance to learn under a pretty darn good Coach. Its how Pu turned out so many HC who either played for him or Coached under him. Same with Bob's coaching tree. You wait your turn and then get your chance or make your chance somewhere. As for Bob yeah people around the program at that time weren't happy how that all transpired. But once a Stallion always a Stallion........
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Are you indicating there’d be too many chefs in the kitchen? Or that they’ll undermine Wiggins? Or that the experience they bring to the staff is cancelled out by their reputations, legacies and/or personalities?
I have to imagine the decision to bring them on, if they are on, was counseled by not just Wiggins but also the school and the rest of the staff. No?
So far the kids love Mark and he seems relaxed and refreshed to just work with his position group and the Offense. Putting in plays that have never been on the DeSales 1 page play book.
Haven't heard much yet on Bob as the info i get comes from a close relative on Mark's side of the ball.
Huh?
More than one page of a playbook... that will be odd to see ?
Also to add to SC, I don't think Wiggins or Burchfield could win a playoff game at SC.
a_raider32
Active member
This is incorrect. He was not.
The Insider
Member
Burchfield would win at SC. He won at Centerburg.
Anyone who followed Jacoby after leaving Desales would not be surprised that he has ran programs into the ground everywhere he has been. Hamilton went from 0-10 his last year to 8-2 the very next season with him gone. Players who refused to play at SC played for the new coach after he left and they went from 1-9 to 4-6 under a coach no one has ever heard of.
Saint Charles was competitive under Jeff Pharion. They made the playoffs twice under him and were attracting some talent from the Catholic schools. Firing him for Jacoby was a puzzling and misguided blunder.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
SC =/= Centerburg
Burchfield wouldn't have nearly the success at SC as he did Hartley if he had gone straight to Broad instead of Zettler. If he left Zettler for Broad (wouldn't happen) he'd possibly win a "round of 16" week 11 playoff game.
I agree on Pharion. But the cards to make a winning hand at football isn't at SC like they are, and have been, at Hartley for Burchfield.
The Insider
Member
There would be a lot of kids in the Catholic schools around Columbus that would come and play for Burchfield if he was at Saint Charles. Pharion had them winning the CCL, Burchfield would have them winning a lot more.
Burchfield would do okay, but one CCL title in 50 years is far from a good thing. Pharion was the best coach in recent memory for SC, but they won 8 games and got trounced in the playoffs. The next two years after that they were at their best mediocre.
It isn't a knock on Burchfield, its more of a knock on SC. Winning football games isn't their forte'... they win in other sports but they can't figure out the most popular one yet
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
If SC would have hired Burchfield instead of Jacoby to replace Pharion, in a hypothetical, they'd be more competitive in the CCL yes but still greatly unknown if they'd have won any playoff games in the previous 8-team setup.
If Burchfield would've replaced Wierzbicki (spelling? guy who was the Bradley coach) instead of Pharion at SC, he would not have been nearly as successful there as he would at Hartley.
Brad Burchfield is a great coach; X's and O's, personality and what his mission is as a coach. How he treats football as an extension of life with all the lessons to follow. No one is denying that. The idea that SC would've reached the same heights, or similar, or transcended their own mediocre previous history if he took that job instead of Hartley though is... questionable.
What gets forgotten about Burchfield's first 2-3 years at Hartley is how the opportunity to turn Hartley into a state power was made possible by the administration. Just like Jim Tressel made the point to make a "wall" around the state of Ohio when he was recruiting for tOSU, Mike Winters made his same mission to make that solidified pipeline of students (and the correspondent athletic talent to follow) with all of the east side parishes & schools. Virtually no leakage to DeSales or other Catholic school options, and he made the best pitch possible to every family imaginable on why Hartley was the place for their sons. ...following up on that...
The vast majority of Burchfield's talent that he had at Hartley to start (classes of '09 through '14) likely would've been going to Hartley with or without him there. And he was reaping the rewards, too, of the east-side/eastern suburb CYO programs having 15-20 kids each per grade. Times that by 3 and you have 45-60 incoming freshmen at Hartley per class in those falls of '08-'11 that you can pull kids out of to make competitive and cohesive freshman* JV teams. At SC, if he started there... he wouldn't have had those numbers. Or talent.
a_raider32
Active member
I stand corrected... those of us in the stands thought it was Joel on the field... apparently Ready has another tall Coach who looks like Coach Cutler from the stands. The people at field level confirm Joel was not there.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
A quick sidetrack...
We’re not CCL, so apologies, but since it may be of interest to the thread: after a 10 year hiatus, I’m hearing that Fisher Cath is going to have a junior high football team and likely a JH baseball team. If those programs sustain, there is a possibility they’ll ask to participate the Diocesan recreation (CYO) league in the future.
We’re not CCL, so apologies, but since it may be of interest to the thread: after a 10 year hiatus, I’m hearing that Fisher Cath is going to have a junior high football team and likely a JH baseball team. If those programs sustain, there is a possibility they’ll ask to participate the Diocesan recreation (CYO) league in the future.
Not CCL but awesome for the catholic schools of the Columbus area. Thanks for sharing!
ColumbusCatholic
Well-known member
Any word yet on Cutler? Is Jacoby really back at DeSales?
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Always thought it was fitting the DoC changed its logo to this, since it’s a good reminder of how infamously slow they are on matters like Cutler’s.
Attachments
Michael Schaefer is currently the HC. Still no word around town.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Again, they move slow. It was a problem when it was Cia 10 years ago, and it’s still a problem after she’s been long gone.
It’s August, for Pete’s sake, on a personnel decision that directly impacts a school and their students. Why the DoC isn’t realizing that and are taking their good ol’ time is beyond me.
It’s August, for Pete’s sake, on a personnel decision that directly impacts a school and their students. Why the DoC isn’t realizing that and are taking their good ol’ time is beyond me.