Boardman

psycho_dad

Well-known member
It will be very interesting to see if Woodridge is within striking distance of Marlington D2 boys.
How much work will be needed the rest of the season?

How many teams , boys and girls, are serious contenders for the regional and State meets?

Are some teams over rated? Underrated? I would think coaches pour over the results for a long time trying to map out the rest of their season.
 

gatornation

Active member
On the girls side in D2 you have #1 Woodridge v. #2 Salem which will be fun to watch and a total of 7 teams in the top 23 of Week #3 poll.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
On the girls side in D2 you have #1 Woodridge v. #2 Salem which will be fun to watch and a total of 7 teams in the top 23 of Week #3 poll.
About the same number of top ranked teams on the boys D2 side.

Woodridge girls have a good combination of front runners and a lot of depth.
 

A. Vandelay

New member
It's hard to compare times without running the same course. I think the boys are pretty settled at Marlington vs. Woodridge now though. For D2 girls there looks to be as many as 5 teams in the mix.
 

cvctrackfan

Well-known member
Woodridg’s girls are a little stronger up front then Salem. They should put two in front of Salem’s number one runner and open up a gap of around 12 to 15 points there and then run them pretty much even at the three,four and five positions. Marlington’s boys have more talent man for man then Woodridge this year. But it will come down to effort and strategy. Coach Howard is the master at that. He targets athletes and breaks down the field as good as anyone. Just going out and just trying to run your opponent off their feet is not the best way to get this done.
 
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About the same number of top ranked teams on the boys D2 side.

Woodridge girls have a good combination of front runners and a lot of depth.
Will Anna Ripple be eligible for postseason, though? As a transfer from CVCA, will she need to sit out after eight meets? How might that affect the overall rankings?
 

gatornation

Active member
We might see some good racing tomorrow. Morning has the distinct advantage with cooler temps but the course has to be running fast with the dry weather we have had recently.
 

cvctrackfan

Well-known member
From what I understand that transfer rule only applies when you transfer to a private school. There is no penalty when you transfer to your home location.
We might see some good racing tomorrow. Morning has the distinct advantage with cooler temps but the course has to be running fast with the dry weather we have had recently.
 
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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
From what I understand that transfer rule only applies when you transfer to a private school. There is no penalty when you transfer to your home location.
Yes, an athlete may transfer back to his or her home district one time during HS without having to sit. If a student transfers from 1 district to another public district that is not the home district, the student would have to sit unless 1 of the exceptions is met. I wanted to make sure we covered the situation when a kid transfers to a public district that is not his or her home district.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
My sources who attended the meet told me it was extremely humid, and it was obviously still on the hot side. One of the sources "felt disgusting" after having run around during the DI boys races.
 

ENA2

Active member
Some interesting concerns from Boardman other than the weather, which is out of human control. #1 - some are saying that the course was somehow long this year. Heard as much as 120 yards (120 meters). Didn’t notice any major changes except maybe the angle of the turn after the mile mark. #2 - in the D3 girls race there were more schools that did not field a team (21) as there were that did finish 5 runners. Some may have been due to the heat and kids not finishing, but getting 5+ to finish at districts is still vital. #3 - not having kids with times over 35:00 count in the results. For girls D2 and D3 there were still some out there and finished without a mark. I know the coach can and should be there and have a time for the kid, but an extra 5-10 minutes between some races may help. #4 - the chips…. A few did not record, kids had to take them to the coach, who had to turn them in, some kids took them off in the corral. Seems like buckets at the finish may be easier…. Or better yet, the bibs that have the chip embedded. …. For what it’s worth, Boardman is the best race in the regular season IMO and I had no problem with any of these concerns as long as similar things don’t happen at the regional meet in 5 weeks. (The lack of complete teams should be taken care of by districts).
 

Nosono

New member
The course was definitely slow...humidity/heat was part of that no doubt. I also feel like the surface there was incredibly soft for the lack of recent rains and higher than usual temps we've been having. Ashland 2 weeks ago was like cement. This was more like a sponge than I thought it would be. I don't see how the course could have been long -- I didn't notice any changes, although I didn't run out the back loop by the baseball fields.

Completely agree with the extra 5-10 minutes between races. Varsity races it was no problem to see all finishers and get down to the start line before the next race went off. In the JV/Opens, it was much more difficult to do that as you have more kids running 26+ minutes.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Woodridge boys are not in a terrible position. They need to improve, but that's usually what they do. Better than what I had them going into the season. A lot of work to do, but within realistic striking distance of a podium spot. Unioto and Marlington are #1 and #2 at this point with Woodridge coming along nicely.

Woodridge girls are in a nice place as well. Still work to do, but strong.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Some interesting concerns from Boardman other than the weather, which is out of human control. #1 - some are saying that the course was somehow long this year. Heard as much as 120 yards (120 meters). Didn’t notice any major changes except maybe the angle of the turn after the mile mark. #2 - in the D3 girls race there were more schools that did not field a team (21) as there were that did finish 5 runners. Some may have been due to the heat and kids not finishing, but getting 5+ to finish at districts is still vital. #3 - not having kids with times over 35:00 count in the results. For girls D2 and D3 there were still some out there and finished without a mark. I know the coach can and should be there and have a time for the kid, but an extra 5-10 minutes between some races may help. #4 - the chips…. A few did not record, kids had to take them to the coach, who had to turn them in, some kids took them off in the corral. Seems like buckets at the finish may be easier…. Or better yet, the bibs that have the chip embedded. …. For what it’s worth, Boardman is the best race in the regular season IMO and I had no problem with any of these concerns as long as similar things don’t happen at the regional meet in 5 weeks. (The lack of complete teams should be taken care of by districts).
#1 No idea how the course could be long unless they left in the chicane after the hill past the baseball field AND routed it to run along the entire length of the HS parking lot and driveway like it did before they replaced with the chicane. There simply isn't anywhere else to add length to the course. Are the people saying this GPSing the course or wheeling it? I've often found that my GPS will hit at least 3.14 miles when my wheel reaches 16,404 ft.

#2 I hope that situation is remedied, or the NE will get short-changed on qualifiers during the next cycle. There are probably a few teams out there who were missing that 5th runner due to soccer, tennis, or some other sport. There may have been a few DNFs, too. I know Rittman, for example, has a team because I watched them win a meet 2+ weeks ago. The younger Gibson sister either did not race at all or did not finish on Saturday. Throw her in the mix, and the team likely places 10th.

Having said all of that, I looked at a few past Boardman Invitationals. I looked at 2011, 2016, and 2019, so 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and pre-2020. In 2011, there were 23 girls teams that scored in DIII and 226 female runners listed in the DIII results. In 2016, there were 48 DIII girls schools that competed, 34 teams that scored, and 327 females were listed in the results. In 2019, 49 schools competed in DIII girls, 30 teams scored, and there were 302 females listed in the results. On Saturday, there were 20 girls teams and 199 females listed in the DIII results. Even if we account for all of the 35:00+ finishers and DNFs, that is still going to be a significant decrease in the number of girls competing from where we were 5 years ago and where we were pre-2020. Maybe it's just me, but MS race fields seem smaller than they used to be as well, so this could be a trend rather than a blip on the radar. Incidentally, compared to Boardman, the participation numbers at Galion have fallen off much harder from where they were 10 and 5 years ago. Many DI teams aren't bothering with that meet right now, but the other divisions are seeing some drop-off in participation as well.

#3 I've always agreed with you on this one. If they competed, time them. 35:00+ runners are striving for PRs the same as any other runner.

#4 A coach told me that he liked having the kids return to the team camp in order to collect their chips. The main reason the coach cited for liking the kids to remove the chips at the team camp was that it made it easier for him to address them as a group after the race and make sure they set off to do a proper cool down. I know they've used buckets before, but imagine the lack of buckets this year was done to get kids and their supporters away from the finishing area and get them back to their team areas ASAP.
 
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NWO XCTF

New member
#1 No idea how the course could be long unless they left in the chicane after the hill past the baseball field AND routed it to run along the entire length of the HS parking lot and driveway like it did before they replaced with the chicane. There simply isn't anywhere else to add length to the course. Are the people saying this GPSing the course or wheeling it? I've often found that my GPS will hit at least 3.14 miles when my wheel reaches 16,404 ft.

#2 I hope that situation is remedied, or the NE will get short-changed on qualifiers during the next cycle. There are probably a few teams out there who were missing that 5th runner due to soccer, tennis, or some other sport. There may have been a few DNFs, too. I know Rittman, for example, has a team because I watched them win a meet 2+ weeks ago. The younger Gibson sister either did not race at all or did not finish on Saturday. Throw her in the mix, and the team likely places 10th.

Having said all of that, I looked at a few past Boardman Invitationals. I looked at 2011, 2016, and 2019, so 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and pre-2020. In 2011, there were 23 girls teams that scored in DIII and 226 female runners listed in the DIII results. In 2016, there were 48 DIII girls schools that competed, 34 teams that scored, and 327 females were listed in the results. In 2019, 49 schools competed in DIII girls, 30 teams scored, and there were 302 females listed in the results. On Saturday, there were 20 girls teams and 199 females listed in the DIII results. Even if we account for all of the 35:00+ finishers, that is a significant decrease in the number of girls competing form where we were 5 years ago and where we were pre-2020. Maybe it's just me, but MS races seem smaller than they used to be, so this could be a trend rather than a blip on the radar. Incidentally, compared to Boardman, the participation numbers at Galion have fallen off much harder from where they were 10 and 5 years ago. Many DI teams aren't bothering with that meet right now, but the other divisions are seeing some drop-off in participation as well.

#3 I've always agreed with you on this one. If they competed, time them. 35:00+ runners are striving for PRs the same as any other runner.

#4 A coach told me that he liked having the kids return to the team camp in order to collect their chips. The main reason the coach cited for liking the kids to remove the chips at the team camp was that it made it easier for him to address them as a group after the race and make sure they set off to do a proper cool down. I know they've used buckets before, but imagine the lack of buckets this year was done to get kids and their supporters away from the finishing area and get them back to their team areas ASAP.
Just think if Boardman put as much effort into their finish line and results as they do putting officials on the course.
 

BigBoyJoey3

New member
Will Anna Ripple be eligible for postseason, though? As a transfer from CVCA, will she need to sit out after eight meets? How might that affect the overall rankings?
Anna will not be eligible I believe. I was told she does not technically live in Peninsula, which is how Woodridge gets most of their kids anyway. Odd move to say the least, as this will be the case in track.
 

jakeburg

Member
Regionals week in NE Ohio, so naturally, the weather has obliged. Break out the 3/4”-ers for the trip to Glenwood Avenue.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
It is odd to me that so many schools don't field cross country teams. Have the program but fail to even have 5 kids per gender. Especially in a sport where coming in last at a meet is not really an embarrassment like getting beat 60-0 is on a football field. It seems to be a positive experience for everyone. Woodridge Bookended the League meet taking first place in the boys race and also last place. So, even top programs have kids that are not elite. There is room for everyone in the sport and you really get to participate and not ride the bench. There is really no conflicts with the refs or other teams or parents. What do we need to do to get more kids involved at schools where participation is so poor? How do we get administrations to help promote the sport. Even with a school like Woodridge, there is rarely coaches from other sports or administration at meets. They really don't promote it at the school other than announcements each morning after meets. A trip to the playoffs in Football still is more important than a trip to the state in CC. What do we need to do better to promote the sport to more parents and kids.

I honestly think it's funny when I see friends of mine and even other parents at meets that are obviously Football people watching a CC meet because their son or daughter chose to run. I have friends that are die hard football people that I've seen at meets and say, "He just loves CC." I've run into very few people that do not like the sport once exposed to it.
 

Supertramp

Active member
It is odd to me that so many schools don't field cross country teams. Have the program but fail to even have 5 kids per gender. Especially in a sport where coming in last at a meet is not really an embarrassment like getting beat 60-0 is on a football field. It seems to be a positive experience for everyone. Woodridge Bookended the League meet taking first place in the boys race and also last place. So, even top programs have kids that are not elite. There is room for everyone in the sport and you really get to participate and not ride the bench. There is really no conflicts with the refs or other teams or parents. What do we need to do to get more kids involved at schools where participation is so poor? How do we get administrations to help promote the sport. Even with a school like Woodridge, there is rarely coaches from other sports or administration at meets. They really don't promote it at the school other than announcements each morning after meets. A trip to the playoffs in Football still is more important than a trip to the state in CC. What do we need to do better to promote the sport to more parents and kids.

I honestly think it's funny when I see friends of mine and even other parents at meets that are obviously Football people watching a CC meet because their son or daughter chose to run. I have friends that are die hard football people that I've seen at meets and say, "He just loves CC." I've run into very few people that do not like the sport once exposed to it.
I agree 100%. With the exception of the smallest schools in the state, there really is no excuse for not being able to put 5 guys or gals on the line for Districts. I get legitimately angry when I see D1 schools bring less than 5 kids to Districts.

So to answer what it takes, I really think you just need a competent teacher/staff member in the High School. If that.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
I agree 100%. With the exception of the smallest schools in the state, there really is no excuse for not being able to put 5 guys or gals on the line for Districts. I get legitimately angry when I see D1 schools bring less than 5 kids to Districts.

So to answer what it takes, I really think you just need a competent teacher/staff member in the High School. If that.

It's been a few years since I've coached so this may no longer be the case. Some of the major city schools used to assign CC contracts through their conference meet and attending a district with a full team was something most saw as extra. Occasionally they would attend with a few kids or allow one or two to go with parents, but the norm was ending their season after conference especially since most were toward the rear at district.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
It's been a few years since I've coached so this may no longer be the case. Some of the major city schools used to assign CC contracts through their conference meet and attending a district with a full team was something most saw as extra. Occasionally they would attend with a few kids or allow one or two to go with parents, but the norm was ending their season after conference especially since most were toward the rear at district.
How does that get changed? I do not look at my contract for track and field and give one flip about the dates. Do these same schools do the same for Basketball? Maybe they do, I don't know.

Do we get the OATCCC to put out some sort of informational e-mail to AD's and administrations? Should we get doctors and psychologist to help put out a memo to schools on the benefits? Kids should be involved and it seems to me CC is the easiest sport to be involved in.

I just can't believe that anyone that works with kids would be so hard and fast to say, my contract is only through the first week in October and then I'm done.

Do we need to have mini clinics for CC coaches all over the state to help? I don't know, it just seems too easy of a sport to participate in to not have more participation.
 

SLS

Active member
It's been a few years since I've coached so this may no longer be the case. Some of the major city schools used to assign CC contracts through their conference meet and attending a district with a full team was something most saw as extra. Occasionally they would attend with a few kids or allow one or two to go with parents, but the norm was ending their season after conference especially since most were toward the rear at district.
I once had an opposing coach tell me he didn't care if his team didn't qualify for the regional because he was happy not to have to coach another week. I guess I was naive because I thought every coach wanted to advance as far as possible.
 

runs4funs

Active member
It is odd to me that so many schools don't field cross country teams. Have the program but fail to even have 5 kids per gender. Especially in a sport where coming in last at a meet is not really an embarrassment like getting beat 60-0 is on a football field. It seems to be a positive experience for everyone. Woodridge Bookended the League meet taking first place in the boys race and also last place. So, even top programs have kids that are not elite. There is room for everyone in the sport and you really get to participate and not ride the bench. There is really no conflicts with the refs or other teams or parents. What do we need to do to get more kids involved at schools where participation is so poor? How do we get administrations to help promote the sport. Even with a school like Woodridge, there is rarely coaches from other sports or administration at meets. They really don't promote it at the school other than announcements each morning after meets. A trip to the playoffs in Football still is more important than a trip to the state in CC. What do we need to do better to promote the sport to more parents and kids.

I honestly think it's funny when I see friends of mine and even other parents at meets that are obviously Football people watching a CC meet because their son or daughter chose to run. I have friends that are die hard football people that I've seen at meets and say, "He just loves CC." I've run into very few people that do not like the sport once exposed to it.
I think the biggest problem is that kids typically don't come into running until middle school at the earliest, compared to other sports like soccer where kids start playing at age 4 (or earlier). This is a broad statement, but in general it seems XC runners either have parents who were runners, friends on the team who convince them to run, or were cut from another sport. If you have a school where there are no cuts in football, soccer, etc. and there is no running tradition, it can be hard to get kids to participate.

I will second the comment that 99.9% of parents and kids involved with XC love it. I believe a big part is due to the lack of politics involved, you don't have to worry about sitting on the bench behind the coach's kid when there's a clock to prove you're 45 seconds faster. Everyone can participate and it's clear (usually) who the top runners are.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
I just can't believe that anyone that works with kids would be so hard and fast to say, my contract is only through the first week in October and then I'm done.

These were urban schools so finding a coach usually meant giving the stipend to a staff member who knew very little about coaching or running. It was standard to hold practice once or twice a week, run one or two meets in addition to conference, put in their required time and get out. Those schools AD and principal thought that was a better option than no team if they had no coach. The coaches saw it as as lunch duty and getting an extra few dollars as their only real incentive.
 

ENA2

Active member
Participaton (or lack of), may be the fastest growing problem in the sport.... Will we have to think about going back to only 2 divisions (especially for girls) in the next couple years. I noticed the problem at several meets this year.

Although I have had at least 7 girls participate every year that I have coached, it is sometimes not easy at all. Occasionally I have to work a lot harder to get 7 kids on the roster by districts than I do at coaching (giving them a decent training plan, supervision, injury prevention, etc.) and even more difficult than teaching in the classroom. All this at a school that has some tradition and success in cross country. It's a small school with only about 100-120 girls in grades 9-12 however the volleyball team always have enough for a JV team (this year a freshmen team too) and the volleyball program has not had a winning record since 1989 and has won only one tourney game since then.

I am fortunate to usually have 2 or 3 kids who love it, but the rest have to learn to love it (as Psycho eluded to) and many of our parents don't even come to most meets. I have talked to some who come once in awhile, who say "I wish she would have played volleyball", probably so mom and dad could sit in the stands and eat popcorn or stay warm. I have tried to recruit some of the "bench warmers" in volleyball to join us, but am usually rebuked and most kids would rather sit on the bench just as long as they can be in the uniform.... they often say "I love volleyball" even though they can not serve overhand or would ever hit their knees on the floor.
I usually have a couple girls who are in the band, cheerleaders, or trying to get a little conditioning for basketball. In fact, our former basketball coach (retired about 12 years ago) encouraged his players to join the CC team.... and his team at 30+ winning seasons in a row and went to the Regionals 15 times in 30 years. Since he left, the coaches have either been indifferent or encouraged them NOT to run CC..... and have have not made it out of the district once.
 
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