Best Team In Recent Years?

B

Brambleberry

Active member
Thought we could get a debate going over who the best team has been in Ohio in the last few years.

My vote would either go to Darby 2013 or Elder 2008. I would probably give the edge to that Elder team though. Never dropped a match leaving no doubt they were the best team in Ohio that year. Led by the Wessels twins, they were a very good team

Thoughts?
 
 
Elder 2008 without a bat of the eye.

That team, not only never dropped a match, no one took them to 5 games either.

Sure, the 2013 Darby team was extremely good and was clearly a championship volleyball team, but they didnt go undefeated. That is the clear decider for me.

I would also put the 2007 Moeller team above 2013 Darby as well. They also did not drop a match all year. Elder had them on the ropes in the 07 finals, but Moeller pulled it off. Led by Meyer, Cherry, and Brandel, that team had some serious fire power.
 
I would also say that the 2008 Elder team played against better competition. I think that Darby, X, and Moe from 08 were all better than the second best team this year (Moeller), and Elder was still able to put up that impressive record
 
My top two:

Moeller '07
Elder '08

From there it is a large drop-off.

Darby '13 would fall in the same category at Elder '10, Moeller '12, and Eds '11. One could also argue adding '09 X, Moe and Elder as they were all very talented teams. Darby may be at the top of this list, but I'm not even sure about that.

Darby of '13 while very big, didn't really run into a challenger. The first match they lost to Moeller from what I've heard, was basically a giveaway. Darby at that point in the year didn't know how to win and Moeller had their number from beating them at state in '12. This year's Elder team was very resilient, but were they better than Elder teams from '07, '08, '09 or '10? This Elder team nearly took Darby to a 5th game in that state final match, so what does that say for Darby when comparing them to other teams in other years? Just a few things to think about.
 
adselder09 said:
My top two:

Moeller '07
Elder '08

From there it is a large drop-off.

Darby '13 would fall in the same category at Elder '10, Moeller '12, and Eds '11. One could also argue adding '09 X, Moe and Elder as they were all very talented teams. Darby may be at the top of this list, but I'm not even sure about that.

Darby of '13 while very big, didn't really run into a challenger. The first match they lost to Moeller from what I've heard, was basically a giveaway. Darby at that point in the year didn't know how to win and Moeller had their number from beating them at state in '12. This year's Elder team was very resilient, but were they better than Elder teams from '07, '08, '09 or '10? This Elder team nearly took Darby to a 5th game in that state final match, so what does that say for Darby when comparing them to other teams in other years? Just a few things to think about.
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Would you really compare Darby to Eds '11? Didn't Eds '11 sort of come out of nowhere to win the title that year? Wasn't the GCL favored that year as well?

Darby was the clear favorite this year going into the state tournament IMO with Moeller really being the only team with a legitimate shot to knock them off. Obviously, Elder made a nice run in the title game. But, Darby still knocked off Elder 3-0 both of the previous times the two teams played this year.

I admit I'm not an expert in volleyball, but I have followed Darby's volleyball team a little for a while now. Their program has slowly been building to this point. They finally got past a GCL team (St. X) to finally reach the title game last year after several years of bowing out in the semi's, but the next GCL team (Moeller) was too much.

I guess what I am saying is that I believe it is always toughest to get that first title even if Darby was the favorite. It is a building process. Success breeds more success (hopefully). The first title never comes easy. Elder and Moeller have "been there done that" before.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment, but moreso throwing out my .02 on the topic.
 
I would also say as far as far as individual talent and best team to watch during warmups, 2007 Moeller is is without a doubt the top team in that sense. Lee Meyer, Danny Brandel, Emming, Schings... They had so many guys that could absolutely bounce a ball
 
adselder09 said:
My top two:
This Elder team nearly took Darby to a 5th game in that state final match, so what does that say for Darby when comparing them to other teams in other years? Just a few things to think about.
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But they didn't take them to 5 games.

Darby also "nearly" went undefeated against Ohio teams this year b/c they probably "should" have beat Moeller the first time they played but they didn't.

Sometimes there are some close matches depending on circumstances. It happens. It doesn't necessarily mean the team isn't as good because they have a close game. Sometimes, it actually shows a team has more toughness when they have to battle through the adversity of a close game. Mentally, it is a lot easier to win a blowout because there is not as much pressure.

Elder got beat down pretty good during the first two games of the final match, but they showed a lot of toughness during the second two games.

I would chalk up the 4 game set (or "almost" 5 game set), more as a positive for Elder than a negative against Darby. Elder is a proud program with a lot of tradition and they weren't going away quietly.
 
Also, just for sake of argument...

The argument can be made that now in recent years, the Boys Volleyball Teams around the state are getting better than they were in previous years. So, "maybe" there are more "better" teams now than there were earlier in the decade as more programs are on the rise (in the North and East).

Obviously, the South (and probably West) have always had very strong teams that dominate.

So, in theory, it could be tougher to win a state title now (and look as dominant doing it) than it was a handful of years ago.
 
Have you watched all of the aforementioned teams? I have... Those older GCL teams were much better than this years teams. I have also had more than one varsity level coach tell me that this year, every team besides Darby was down compared to previous years
 
Brambleberry said:
Have you watched all of the aforementioned teams? I have... Those older GCL teams were much better than this years teams. I have also had more than one varsity level coach tell me that this year, every team besides Darby was down compared to previous years
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No I haven't watched those other teams. But, these message boards are for debate. And I am sure you have your own bias toward GCL teams as it is obvious in your posts.

There is no way to ever definitively say which teams would win head-to-head matchups unless they were to actually play against one another. Upsets happen all of the time. I agree that another team may be "more accomplished" if they go through a season undefeated, but that doesn't necessarily make them better than another team from different year. That is why I actually hate debates like this, because there is no way to know which teams are better.

Just because you say those other teams are better doesn't actually mean that they were.

Again, I'm not trying to say this year's Darby team was the best ever. That would be foolish to say. But don't start a thread and say "lets get a debate going" and just expect everybody to agree with you. Because, when you say one team is better than another, that is only your "opinion" unless the teams would actually face off head-to-head.

I'm welcome to throw out my thoughts and opinions just as much as you are.
 
My first post I have 2008 Elder then this Darby team as my top 2. Very GCL biased. My GCL bias is also saying that GCL teams from a while ago are much better than GCL teams now. Seems to me like I'm saying the GCL is on the decline and the glory days may very well be over
 
Brambleberry said:
I have also had more than one varsity level coach tell me that this year, every team besides Darby was down compared to previous years
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Maybe it just feels like this because someone other than St. X, Elder or Moeller didn't win the title this year like they do in most years. You Cinci gentlemen say the same thing in football every year as well when another region wins it all. When Davidson won their football titles in '06 and '09, Ohio football was in "down" years according to you Cinci guys.

Had Pickerington North got into the endzone when the RB was stopped a half-yard short, Moeller wouldn't have had a chance to win the state title and it would have been another "down" year again for Ohio Football.
 
Brambleberry said:
My first post I have 2008 Elder then this Darby team as my top 2. Very GCL biased. My GCL bias is also saying that GCL teams from a while ago are much better than GCL teams now. Seems to me like I'm saying the GCL is on the decline and the glory days may very well be over
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I guess I missed that. I saw Moeller 2007 and Elder 2008. Apparently, I am reading too fast. Too many things going on in the house.

I don't think GCL is on decline at all. I think other programs are on the rise. If this continues, it will actually make for a more fun season for fans.

If everybody knows Moeller or Elder is going to win every year, its not exactly exciting. But when some other programs, such as Darby and Ed's from other regions start legitimately competing, it makes it much more exciting for us fans IMO.
 
I see your points ddf. And I think the programs across the state are on the rise. There are much more competitive teams now than there were years ago.

Darby definitely has been building to this point and you could definitely tell that this team was on a mission after losing in the finals last season.

In fact, three of the last four and five of the last seven champs have all been defeated the previous year before they won their title.

In '06 X def. Moeller, Moeller won in '07
In '07 Moe def. Elder, Elder won in '08
In '09 Moeller def. Elder, Elder won in '10
In '11 Eds def. Moeller, Moe won in '12
In '12 Moeller def. Darby, Darby won in '13

Seems to be the trend to come back the following season.
 
Your football comparison for '06 and '09 are somewhat valid, but unlike other GCL posters I don't think they were 'just down years.'

In '06 that Davidson team beat a very good Colerain team, and really shut them down doing it. In '09 Davidson beat a VERY good Elder team, one that returned something like 12-15 starters on both sides of the ball from a D1 runner-up team, including '08 POY Mark Miller and state-record holder Timmy O'Connor who caught 15 passes and 2 TDs in the losing effort.

I also think the GCL play has somewhat declined from '07-'08 in volleyball. Had someone this year tell me that St X of '09 who won the GCL and didn't make it to state that year, would have destroyed Moeller of '13. (This particular person hadn't seen Darby play, but he had seen Moeller quite a few times).

Eds didn't come out of nowhere in '11. They had the best player in the state in McAndrews and they underachieved the year before losing to Elder in the '10 Quarterfinals. They weren't the favorite, but they definitely weren't a longshot either.

I'm also not discrediting Elder's play at State as they played some of the grittiest, tough volleyball I've ever seen played. They definitely weren't the most talented team there, but they just played ball. It didn't matter what the score was, it didn't matter how bad they were beat in a prior game as they lost three ugly games, one in each match during their state run only to win the following game.

However, I don't think there are a lot of people that could say Elder of '13 is/was better than Elder of '07, '08, '09 or '10, but IMO of those five Elder teams, only the '07 team comes close to the heart of the '13 team. They didn't care how big you were or how good you were, they were gonna fight you tooth and nail until it's over. The '07 team had a similar run where they were somewhat overmatched in the state final against Moeller, but they fought like hell to be in position to win the match.
 
darbydavidsonfan said:
I guess I missed that. I saw Moeller 2007 and Elder 2008. Apparently, I am reading too fast. Too many things going on in the house.

I don't think GCL is on decline at all. I think other programs are on the rise. If this continues, it will actually make for a more fun season for fans.

If everybody knows Moeller or Elder is going to win every year, its not exactly exciting. But when some other programs, such as Darby and Ed's from other regions start legitimately competing, it makes it much more exciting for us fans IMO.
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I think it is a little of both. Back in the 07-09 hay days, you could basically throw Elder, Moeller, and St X in the finals and they would put up a good show. Any of the three would be just as good as the other and give the fans an amazing match to watch. Now... Not so much. This past year, I would say you could only throw one team in the finals.. Moeller. Yes, Elder made it to the finals by playing lights out volleyball, but you could not say that they were number two. Also, X did not have much of a chance either this year. It is really all hypothetically, but there seems to be a drop off since the years that you could interchange the 'big 3'.

Dont get me wrong, I love seeing the Oak Hills, Fenwick, Darby, I's, Ed's, and Alter programs and any other team that is on the rise, getting to the top 5 in the state. There needs to be growth in the sport. One day I hope to see someone other than Moeller/Elder/X come out of the south, Eds/Iggy come out of the north etc.
 
adselder09 said:
In fact, three of the last four and five of the last seven champs have all been defeated the previous year before they won their title.

In '06 X def. Moeller, Moeller won in '07
In '07 Moe def. Elder, Elder won in '08
In '09 Moeller def. Elder, Elder won in '10
In '11 Eds def. Moeller, Moe won in '12
In '12 Moeller def. Darby, Darby won in '13

Seems to be the trend to come back the following season.
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Wow, that is an interesting and impressive stat. Looking good for Elder next year then! (sounds like they return a good group next year already anyway)

I appreciate your knowledge and thanks for all the updates this year. You were the only one I had to depend on for the scores this year. Thanks again!
 
I wonder if any of the previous state champs challenged themselves outside Ohio like Darby did this year in Illinois. I think that deserves a lot of credit.

I generally doubt that the overall level of play really changes that much in any sport in any given year overall. Yes, some teams are up and some teams are down, but I think the overall level of play doesn't change that dramatically overall. It just looks more dramatic when your particular team has a down year. I think it is more the case that other teams are catching up to Elder, St. Xavier, and Moeller.

I also think that is happening in lacrosse as well, although we may not have a different state champ this year than someone like an Upper Arlington or Dublin Jerome. I think teams like Mason and Hudson are catching up to UA and Jerome in terms of having programs that can legitimately compete for state titles each year.
 
darbydavidsonfan said:
Wow, that is an interesting and impressive stat. Looking good for Elder next year then! (sounds like they return a good group next year already anyway)

I appreciate your knowledge and thanks for all the updates this year. You were the only one I had to depend on for the scores this year. Thanks again!
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Thanks for the kind words, clearly I had a lot of free time on my hands. :thumb:

I enjoyed following a lot of the teams this year, especially some of teams who haven't been traditional powers like Beavercreek, Fenwick, etc. Made this season a lot of fun, glad that Elder goes out and plays teams like that throughout the year. It definitely makes things much more interesting throughout the regular season.
 
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FormerWildcat said:
I wonder if any of the previous state champs challenged themselves outside Ohio like Darby did this year in Illinois. I think that deserves a lot of credit.

I generally doubt that the overall level of play really changes that much in any sport in any given year overall. Yes, some teams are up and some teams are down, but I think the overall level of play doesn't change that dramatically overall. It just looks more dramatic when your particular team has a down year. I think it is more the case that other teams are catching up to Elder, St. Xavier, and Moeller.
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Moeller traditionally has gone out to Illinois for an early season tournament, although they didn't this season. Elder has traveled for a tournament at Penn State and have gone to Indiana in the past.

It is tough at times because each team is only allowed to participate in two? tournaments each year. Usually for the top teams that includes a preseason tournament and the Elite.

As for your other point, I'm not sure how much you follow volleyball, but the game has continually evolved. New programs have begun to grow up and progress and the traditional powers have regressed some which has also narrowed that gap. It isn't that they have simply become worse programs, it just has more to do with talent level and speed of the game. The only team this season that played with some of the top teams of recent years past, speed wise/talent wise, was Darby. Moeller, Beavercreek, Ignatius and Elder of this season were good and competitive, but not of the same caliber as '07 Moeller or '08 Elder. That's just my opinion as I've watched the game for the last 8+ years
 
adselder09 said:
As for your other point, I'm not sure how much you follow volleyball, but the game has continually evolved. New programs have begun to grow up and progress and the traditional powers have regressed some which has also narrowed that gap. It isn't that they have simply become worse programs, it just has more to do with talent level and speed of the game.
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I've played it since before you were born, and actually played on some of the very early club teams. The game has certainly become more sophisticated in terms of strategy, but that doesn't mean that the overall level of play changes that dramatically from year to year.

My observation across a variety of sports, including basketball in which I lettered (boys volleyball didn't offer athletic letters as a club sport back in the day), is that when the "traditional powers" don't win the title, everyone says it was a "down year" in that sport. That has been true like clockwork over many moons across every sport.
 
Yes each game is listed. With being the #1 in the South that year, Elder just had to win two matches to win Regionals (Princeton and Mason).

Then to win the title, there are three remaining matches (LW, Darby, X)
 
moe did go to the Illinois tournament several years and never did as good as Darby did this year. It is a high level tournament and for that Darby should be given credit. I think they should be ranked very high in this all time ranking and i am a Moe fan.
 
techhawk101 said:
moe did go to the Illinois tournament several years and never did as good as Darby did this year. It is a high level tournament and for that Darby should be given credit. I think they should be ranked very high in this all time ranking and i am a Moe fan.
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Is Volleyball a bigger sport in Illinois? Are there usually a lot of very good teams in their state from year to year?
 
1. 08 Elder
2a. 07 Moeller
2b. 13 Darby
3. 00 Elder
4. 05 Moeller
5. 06 St Xavier
6. 12 Moeller


Never saw any teams before 03, so besides the 00 Elder team I guess I can't comment on others
 
Im not ranking them, but 07 Elder, 08 Elder and 09 Elder were very good. 07 Moe, 05 Moe and 12 Moe were very good. 05 X, 08 X, and 09 X were very good teams. The bolded were the best for each program. I would agree 13 Darby was very good but would lose to any of the years/teams I just bolded and would struggle against the other years/teams I just listed.
 
SportsGenius said:
Im not ranking them, but 07 Elder, 08 Elder and 09 Elder were very good. 07 Moe, 05 Moe and 12 Moe were very good. 05 X, 08 X, and 09 X were very good teams. The bolded were the best for each program. I would agree 13 Darby was very good but would lose to any of the years/teams I just bolded and would struggle against the other years/teams I just listed.
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Its interesting that you have the state final teams in 07 (Moe and Elder) the state final teams in 08 (Elder and X), but in 09 you have Elder and X but neither of them won the state title that year :shrug: I understand that you are merely stating good teams from each program, but if you have the 09 Elder and X teams up there, you cannot forget the 09 Moeller team
 
06 X is the team I think you are talking about led by Kehoe and the oldest Kues. It was basically those two stars followed by mostly average role players. While that team was good, I don't think 13 Darby would be guaranteed a loss if they were to hypothetically play
 
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