Beacons of light and closing/consolidating of parishes

Well why would a priest get arrested for solicitation of a male prostitute yet still continue to be a priest? Isn't that more concerning than a couple living together?
 
cincifbfan said:
Name a church and I've been to either a funeral or wedding there. I mean they are different, vastly different. Every priest puts their own spin on it.
Click to expand...
I've been to several Masses at predominantly Black congregations that have a real Southern Baptist feel. I have been to Ghanaian Masses where the offertory is danced down the isle. This has all been very enriching to me. Whatever the style of the music, or ethnic customs, the central substance of the Mass is the same. Weddings are very personal, as are funerals. There is no requirement that there be a Mass offered at all. I, as a catholic and a Catholic celebrate our differences, while I also celebrate the universal truth of the Church. It would be a tragedy to not be able to embrace that richness of the catholic/Catholic experience.
 
Golgi app said:
Well why would a priest get arrested for solicitation of a male prostitute yet still continue to be a priest? Isn't that more concerning than a couple living together?
Click to expand...
The holier than thou posters here won’t answer this question - but will tell you you’re not Catholic if you’ve ever used a condom.

And sadly, these are grown adults.
 
cincifbfan said:
Name a church and I've been to either a funeral or wedding there. I mean they are different, vastly different. Every priest puts their own spin on it.

So explain why a priest would marry a couple that lives together..... That is ? against Catholic teachings. There are priests that marry couples who openly say they have pre-marital sex or use contraception during their meetings with the priest. Please explain why that is ok.
About outreach, when was the last time you saw a priest doing outreach? When was the last time you saw a priest at a parish athletic event? When was the last time a priest led any kind of group that the parish has such as a book study or whatnot? They have volunteers do all that.

I never said churches shouldnt charge. I said. They don't care if the couple is
practicing the Catholic faith. They just want the check. And the charge is always more than the utilities and whatnot, that's why they are eager to get anyone wanting their church.... It fills the coffers.
Click to expand...
I still am not sure what you mean by every priest puts a spin on the Mass as all the prayers are in a predetermined sequence. Families can pick their own readings for the weddings and funerals as you know.

Some priests might go ahead and do a wedding for a cohabitating couple just so the couple is not living in sin any more. The priest also may fear that the couple will instead go to a justice of the peace for a non- sacramental marriage and leave the Catholic Church. The priest who marries the cohabitating couple may think that he can help this couple later to convert their hearts to Church teaching since conversion of heart takes time instead of just giving up on them and letting them go to a JP.

I have seen priests do a book study and another priest I know teaches classes on the faith at night and it is separate from RCIA. Many priests don't follow sports so you make a fair statement on them not being at parish sports events in general. Priests are busier than people think though.

I have a hard time believing that priests don't care if a couple is practicing the faith or not. Some of the wedding fee goes to the priest who did all the marriage prep meetings and the musician gets a check too.
 
I think the latest discussion here is what really has hurt the Church and certainly attendance. They have had some Priest involved in some homosexual behavior, swept under rug, moved to a different Parish etc etc. On the other side they don’t believe in Adam&Steve they believe in Adam&Eve. Can’t have it both ways (lol), most people are not that stupid. I understand we are all sinners but treating the people Paying the bills differently than your own usually upsets some people.
 
Golgi app said:
Well why would a priest get arrested for solicitation of a male prostitute yet still continue to be a priest? Isn't that more concerning than a couple living together?
Click to expand...
I will agree with you that such a priest should have been thrown out of active ministry.
 
Since it was with an adult they didn't care. Don't live together and ask to be married that's bad. Exposing yourself to an undercover cop, all good?!?
 
Golgi app said:
Since it was with an adult they didn't care. Don't live together and ask to be married that's bad. Exposing yourself to an undercover cop, all good?!?
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I’m talking about. They kind of like the Government nowadays, alright for thee but not for me!

Seen a few comments about Church/Religious institution changing culture with the times, new generation. In all seriousness what ways is this possible?
 
St.X fan2 said:
Some priests might go ahead and do a wedding for a cohabitating couple just so the couple is not living in sin any more. The priest also may fear that the couple will instead go to a justice of the peace for a non- sacramental marriage and leave the Catholic Church. The priest who marries the cohabitating couple may think that he can help this couple later to convert their hearts to Church teaching since conversion of heart takes time instead of just giving up on them and letting them go to a JP.

I have seen priests do a book study and another priest I know teaches classes on the faith at night and it is separate from RCIA. Many priests don't follow sports so you make a fair statement on them not being at parish sports events in general. Priests are busier than people think though.

I have a hard time believing that priests don't care if a couple is practicing the faith or not. Some of the wedding fee goes to the priest who did all the marriage prep meetings and the musician gets a check too.
Click to expand...

You are literally proving my point here with what you said. Some priests marry a cohabitating couple even though it's against the Church and is mortal sin? It's ok to do so so you are no longer in sin? This is the type of hypocrisy that turns hoards of people away. You then go on to say you have hard time believing priests don't care if the couple is practicing or not? You cannot be practicing if you are a cohabitating couple..... .so yes, priests regularly marry non-practicing couples.

You then say some of the wedding fees go to the priest? That's a new one....... So he gets extra money for doing the will of God? I didn't realize priests got overtime or kickbacks..... I'm sure the Vatican loves hearing that.

Musicians get a separate check, I know because my of my wife and my neighbor are those musicians.

Lastly, you said you know a (as in one) priest that teaches a faith at night class. One. That is my point. In most parishes, you see the priest at Mass, that's it. They don't visit the school, they don't go out in the community for things like let's say a pro-life rally or fundraiser for a local child in the community with a terminal disease, and like you said you don't see them at their parish athletic events (Who cares if they follow sports.... Show support to those who are supporting your parish). Other Christian denominations see their "clergy" or spiritual leaders doing things like that, so people have been gravitating toward them.

This isn't rocket science. The Catholic Church has a huge PR & image problem. They refuse to listen to the flock over how to fix it, and just keep on doing whatever pleases them. It's the "Practice what I say, not what I do" ideology that upsets people and turns them away. Then we have entirely too many people that excuse such behavior instead of actually remedying it.

Look, I'm still a practicing Catholic..... I keep having hope that at some point leadership will get their heads out of their proverbial rear ends and wake up to what's actually going on in the real world in 2021. The Church doesn't understand the complexities of life for people in the 21st century. The same mistakes continually get made. New ideas are pushed aside and disregarded. Church leadership is completely out of touch with its flock. As I stated, while I am still a practicing Catholic..... each and every year, the Church makes it more and more difficult to keep going back with backwards ideas and the never-ending hypocrisy.
 
I think many are misguided in what is a thriving parish, in regards to what the AOC considers a thriving parish. This whole process has made it clear that they view church attendance and monetary giving to the church as their clear #1 indicator of how a parish is doing. School enrollment is a clear secondary factor. They have noted in their reports parishes with large student enrollment but are not thriving as a parish because mass is 1/3 full.

I am most interested in seeing what is done is Price Hill. The AOC's own report on future growth says that East Price Hill is their only area on the west side where they project growth in enrollment at schools. So do they keep more of those schools open?
 
Also, I am hearing that many parishes may merge schools but keep buildings open by having an separate elementary and middle school campus. For instance, Visi and Jude could merge, reduce their mass schedule to one mass at each church on Sunday, then have grades k-5 at Visi and 6-8 at St Jude.
 
CincyHSFootballFan said:
Also, I am hearing that many parishes may merge schools but keep buildings open by having an separate elementary and middle school campus. For instance, Visi and Jude could merge, reduce their mass schedule to one mass at each church on Sunday, then have grades k-5 at Visi and 6-8 at St Jude.
Click to expand...
That would be quite an interesting take on schooling. That may work out quite well for some.
 
Here is how I think it may play out.

Visi - Jude - St Als Bridgetown

Lourdes - St. Antoninus - Victory

Theresa - Williams - Dominic

Lawrence - Resurrection - Holy Family

The larger mergers would like have to keep two school campuses open to accommodate all the students.
 
CincyHSFootballFan said:
Here is how I think it may play out.

Visi - Jude - St Als Bridgetown

Lourdes - St. Antoninus - Victory

Theresa - Williams - Dominic

Lawrence - Resurrection - Holy Family

The larger mergers would like have to keep two school campuses open to accommodate all the students.
Click to expand...
Here is how it is going to change, IMO. Much more consolidation than folks think:

All the price hill parishes (Teresa, William, Res, Lawrence, Holy Family, San Antonio) become Price Hill Catholic; William and Teresa to serve as K-4 and 4-8 school buildings

Dominic-Victory--St. Vincent DePaul-St. Als Ohio...Dominic and Victory k-4 and 4-8 school

Jude-Visitation-St. Joseph North Bend-Visi and Jude school buildings

OLL-Martin-St. Als-St. Catharine-St. Antoninus-Antoninus and OLL school buildings.

The impact of jobs, sports, and community events doesnt seem to be a huge concern to the diocese (big shock LOL)....but it's going to be a dogfight between the schools. Also, what happens to the building and property is a big concern as well. Look for small private catholic and non catholic schools to pop up in the closed locations.
 
All it will do is push even more Catholics to look at other alternatives. The rising tuition caused that, and now this will further cause that.

This will reduce enrollment even more.
 
This has to lower tuition right? Somewhat of a sarcastic comment because I likely know the answer, but consolidation usually means reduction of cost.

In theory, tuition should go down.
 
Vincent and Regina said:
Leading by example is the wrong leadership? That is the way I have lived my entire life, I follow the example of good people and avoid the people who screw up.

So by your logic Cops, Firefighters, City workers shouldn't have to pay taxes or follow laws? If you don't realize the incentive to go to church is not in this life, you are missing the point.
Click to expand...
Well, you completely misinterpreted what I said lol I'd rather my kids' teachers lead by example in the way they conduct themselves in life, who they are as people and by the moral/faith-based impact they can have on kids. Just because a teacher, or anyone for that matter, shows their face at church doesn't mean they're good people or even that they live in a way you should want to emulate.
 
CincyHSFootballFan said:
Here is how I think it may play out.

Visi - Jude - St Als Bridgetown

Lourdes - St. Antoninus - Victory

Theresa - Williams - Dominic

Lawrence - Resurrection - Holy Family

The larger mergers would like have to keep two school campuses open to accommodate all the students.
Click to expand...

I'd hate to join the Evil Empire but that could work. How would Visi and Jude feel about our EdChoice kids? That has to be taken into consideration. (Or, do those two accept them as well?)

I think you're more likely to see the Volunteers Football group: Al's, Jude, Lourdes, Martin and Catharine.
 
UCArch said:
This has to lower tuition right? Somewhat of a sarcastic comment because I likely know the answer, but consolidation usually means reduction of cost.

In theory, tuition should go down.
Click to expand...
The way I see it, tuition increases. You will have less space (lower supply), and whenever supply decreases, price increases. I would expect tuition to increase quite a bit over the next 5 years as buildings close/consolidate.

Now, you could see "profit" from those schools increase quite a bit as well. Theoretically, you will have a glut of teachers all trying to get these new consolidated school jobs. That means they can pay quite a bit less since there will always be someone willing to take that job at a pay-cut.
 
cincifbfan said:
The way I see it, tuition increases. You will have less space (lower supply), and whenever supply decreases, price increases. I would expect tuition to increase quite a bit over the next 5 years as buildings close/consolidate.

Now, you could see "profit" from those schools increase quite a bit as well. Theoretically, you will have a glut of teachers all trying to get these new consolidated school jobs. That means they can pay quite a bit less since there will always be someone willing to take that job at a pay-cut.
Click to expand...

This will be a disaster for schools if tuition goes up dramatically. The AoC must know that tuition needs to actually come down p-12 if they want to have schools in the next decade at all.
 
cincifbfan said:
The way I see it, tuition increases. You will have less space (lower supply), and whenever supply decreases, price increases. I would expect tuition to increase quite a bit over the next 5 years as buildings close/consolidate.

Now, you could see "profit" from those schools increase quite a bit as well. Theoretically, you will have a glut of teachers all trying to get these new consolidated school jobs. That means they can pay quite a bit less since there will always be someone willing to take that job at a pay-cut.
Click to expand...
Well if that’s the case, then this is going to go really bad.

“Hey, we are taking away your school and here’s your choices. Oh and by the way, it costs more too”

So the way it’s been explained, won’t a family have the option to moving to any family parish they want? My guess is most families if they have to move will just move to the more popular parishes like Visi, Jude and Victory, and potentially killing off the schools like Lourdes and Antoninus.
 
cincifbfan said:
You are literally proving my point here with what you said. Some priests marry a cohabitating couple even though it's against the Church and is mortal sin? It's ok to do so so you are no longer in sin? This is the type of hypocrisy that turns hoards of people away. You then go on to say you have hard time believing priests don't care if the couple is practicing or not? You cannot be practicing if you are a cohabitating couple..... .so yes, priests regularly marry non-practicing couples.

You then say some of the wedding fees go to the priest? That's a new one....... So he gets extra money for doing the will of God? I didn't realize priests got overtime or kickbacks..... I'm sure the Vatican loves hearing that.

Musicians get a separate check, I know because my of my wife and my neighbor are those musicians.

Lastly, you said you know a (as in one) priest that teaches a faith at night class. One. That is my point. In most parishes, you see the priest at Mass, that's it. They don't visit the school, they don't go out in the community for things like let's say a pro-life rally or fundraiser for a local child in the community with a terminal disease, and like you said you don't see them at their parish athletic events (Who cares if they follow sports.... Show support to those who are supporting your parish). Other Christian denominations see their "clergy" or spiritual leaders doing things like that, so people have been gravitating toward them.

This isn't rocket science. The Catholic Church has a huge PR & image problem. They refuse to listen to the flock over how to fix it, and just keep on doing whatever pleases them. It's the "Practice what I say, not what I do" ideology that upsets people and turns them away. Then we have entirely too many people that excuse such behavior instead of actually remedying it.

Look, I'm still a practicing Catholic..... I keep having hope that at some point leadership will get their heads out of their proverbial rear ends and wake up to what's actually going on in the real world in 2021. The Church doesn't understand the complexities of life for people in the 21st century. The same mistakes continually get made. New ideas are pushed aside and disregarded. Church leadership is completely out of touch with its flock. As I stated, while I am still a practicing Catholic..... each and every year, the Church makes it more and more difficult to keep going back with backwards ideas and the never-ending hypocrisy.
Click to expand...
I guess the reason that some priests marry cohabitating couples is the hope that they will turn their lives around later and convert their hearts. My experience is that most priests do care about their people.

The priest is the one who had many meetings with the couple and filled out all the marriage paperwork and celebrated the wedding so he gets a small stipend for his work. Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty and have bills to pay also. The Vatican knows that priests get stipends as that has been the practice for a long time. It is part of the priest's salary.

There are plently of priests at the pro-life walk in June and yes priests visit the school classrooms and some run book discussions. I don't know how much clergy from other denominations are present but they also don't have nearly as much liturgical responsibilities since they don't have confessions each day, anointing of the sick, and Protestants only have services on Sunday whereas priests have Mass everyday and have to write a new homily each day.
 
St.X fan2 said:
I guess the reason that some priests marry cohabitating couples is the hope that they will turn their lives around later and convert their hearts. My experience is that most priests do care about their people.
Click to expand...
That bolded part is hilarious. What horrible people heading down the dark, dark path of *checks notes* living in the same house. Such horrible sinners!
 
St.X fan2 said:
I guess the reason that some priests marry cohabitating couples is the hope that they will turn their lives around later and convert their hearts. My experience is that most priests do care about their people.

The priest is the one who had many meetings with the couple and filled out all the marriage paperwork and celebrated the wedding so he gets a small stipend for his work. Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty and have bills to pay also. The Vatican knows that priests get stipends as that has been the practice for a long time. It is part of the priest's salary.

There are plently of priests at the pro-life walk in June and yes priests visit the school classrooms and some run book discussions. I don't know how much clergy from other denominations are present but they also don't have nearly as much liturgical responsibilities since they don't have confessions each day, anointing of the sick, and Protestants only have services on Sunday whereas priests have Mass everyday and have to write a new homily each day.
Click to expand...
You are clearly right.... priests are always available, out in the public regularly, and always at the forefront of leading Church causes and issues. Please disregard everything I have said, as I clearly have been wrong and see Catholic priests outside of church regularly.

I mean seriously..... with as many churches as there are on the West Side, I can honestly say that I have never, ever ran into a priest outside of church. I have never seen one at Kroger, a gas station, a park, or literally anywhere. That's even true back when each parish had 3+ priests.
 
cincifbfan said:
You are clearly right.... priests are always available, out in the public regularly, and always at the forefront of leading Church causes and issues. Please disregard everything I have said, as I clearly have been wrong and see Catholic priests outside of church regularly.

I mean seriously..... with as many churches as there are on the West Side, I can honestly say that I have never, ever ran into a priest outside of church. I have never seen one at Kroger, a gas station, a park, or literally anywhere. That's even true back when each parish had 3+ priests.
Click to expand...

Only one I know is Fr. Ben at Victory. That dude is amazing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top