Attendance?

5-6 years ago, the prevailing argument was “ticket cost”

2-3 years ago, it was the online tickets

Now we’re revisiting the generally vague “community support” argument.

…

Look, the state tournament is a commodity. It’s basketball. Basketball that is played by the age demographic that is generally the most physically limited; at least the worth paying money to see. The general public that is hoops-minded can watch up to 32 college games, in the comfort of their own house, in the same span of the state tournament. Games that feature more talented players, generally more advanced basketball, known coaches, blue bloods and a consistent level of entertainment. Plus, the stakes people have in the tournament.

That’s a stiff product for the OHSAA to be in competition with, and making matters worse is the market perhaps most interested in watching high school basketball (players themselves) are in spring sports.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Agree but I think the covid year hastened the downfall of attd. at HS sporting events. People were not allowed to go to games, either cancelled or limit capacity and found out they really did not miss going to HS sporting events.
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You are spot on. It has since become much easier for people to come up with reasons not to go.
 
The Dock said:
5-6 years ago, the prevailing argument was “ticket cost”

2-3 years ago, it was the online tickets

Now we’re revisiting the generally vague “community support” argument.

…

Look, the state tournament is a commodity. It’s basketball. Basketball that is played by the age demographic that is generally the most physically limited; at least the worth paying money to see. The general public that is hoops-minded can watch up to 32 college games, in the comfort of their own house, in the same span of the state tournament. Games that feature more talented players, generally more advanced basketball, known coaches, blue bloods and a consistent level of entertainment. Plus, the stakes people have in the tournament.

That’s a stiff product for the OHSAA to be in competition with, and making matters worse is the market perhaps most interested in watching high school basketball (players themselves) are in spring sports.
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It's been on opening weekend of the NCAA for years. $16 is beyond ridiculous. I was going to the tourney back in the early 80's at St John Arena that would have at least 8 of the 12 games a sellout. Tickets were $5.....and you were lucky if you could get in to most of the games. I'm assuming the TV money makes up for the fact that in the early years at the Schott they would get 15k for several games.....but now they have a final day with nothing over 6k. The OH$AA doesn't care about anything other than money....and they don't even try to hide it anymore lol
 
The Dock said:
The TV wing of ONN may not have been “statewide”, but only because not all cable providers had the channel. It was very much a statewide concept that just didn’t have the physical coverage.

To an extent, it can be argued the same applies to Spectrum News 1. Incidentally, SN1 is a mirror of ONN in format and concept; it just is that SN1 has the benefit of being backed by a cable company that became a high-posture player in a marketplace that reduced so greatly due to umpteen mergers/acquisitions that they wound up on the right side of.
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The reason ONN was not statewide is irrelevant to my point. It wasn't and Spectrum now is. Plus the live streaming of NFHS gives almost everyone the ability to stay home and catch every game. ONN was never like that.
 
spirit454 said:
Plus wrestling requires a different type of need. Correct me if I am wrong but it's 3 days but it is actually one event each day open from start to finish. Basketball is actually 4 separate event each day with the facility being cleared, locked up, cleaned up and reopened. This happens 12 times for basketball and 3 times for wrestling.
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I think day 1 is one big event but day 2 and day 3 are each 2 sessions.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Big difference these teams (not the Cavs) usually sell out and have big tv contracts. I have no idea how much spectrum pays OHSAA but if you want to support your team go to the games.
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Not sure why you would say "not the Cavs" who sell out and have 99% capacity and then think the Guardians sell out games when their attendance is atrocious and sell.out maybe 2 games out of 81. Doesn't make in sense at all. Maybe you are ignorant of Cleveland pro sports.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Big difference these teams (not the Cavs) usually sell out and have big tv contracts. I have no idea how much spectrum pays OHSAA but if you want to support your team go to the games.
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OK, so you go to every game but some of us support teams at home.
My point is I would be comfortable to say more people see the state final game in 2024 than what they ever have in the past.
 
So many factors go into the attendance being low.

People just pick and choose what they want to be the main focus and let their implicit biases take over.

- Highest tv broadcast numbers for the games
- Being in the corner of the state when most teams winning state championships are on the other corner of the state. An 1:34 drive to Dayton is a lot different than a 3:30 minute drive.
- especially on a SUNDAY
- Definitely has something to do with the difference in communities. People don’t seem to leave small towns. For reasons good or bad they don’t. Also, those communities are usually not viewed as the most open to different groups of people so people also don’t move there. So yeah. There probably is a deeper community feel. For mostly good reasons and (I would say unintended) negative reasons.
-urban communities have more people that move out and then also have a lot more people move in. Kids that have gone to multiple school districts. Not only because of sports but for other reasons that rural or suburban do not have to worry about.
-etc. etc.

At the end of the day people will pick the reasons that support their narrative and down play the ones that don’t. Most people know that it is a combination of all of these factors.
 
Years ago most of the tickets were taken by all the OHSAA schools. Their was no public sale other than the participating teams. Each school in the state was allowed 2 tickets each for their Super, Principal, AD and Coach, and maybe a few more, and most schools bought all that was allowed. Newpapers, radio and TV stations were allowed to purchase 2 sets. State elected politicians were allowed 2 sets. The State Tournament was a don't miss event. It was very hard for the average person to get tickets. Well, a lot of things have changed since the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and early 2000's. Kids interests have changed. Basketball is a skill sport and takes a lot of time to master. Most kids today don't want to do that, and there are many other easier options. There are many other entertainment options for adults, other than spending a weekend in Cbus watching BB. The frustration of watching glorified AAU teams playing in small school divisions is certainly part of it. Moving it out of Cbus is also a factor, even though Dayton is great and OSU's lack of interest. I personally went to over 50 State Tournaments until Covid hit. Moving it to Dayton ended it for me. Having 7 divisions next year is a disaster in waiting. The OHSAA needs to find a way to classify teams based on the population area they draw players from, rather than enrollment.
 
I
ShoelessJoe said:
Sorry, I not up to date on all the new acronyms out there.
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I am being sarcastic but there is a huge difference.

It would be like saying a matchbox toy Chevette and a Lamborghini are both cars. These kids at Richmond, Lutheran East and all these schools people usually cry about play on major shoe circuits against the best talent in the country. They aren’t playing for “(insert random name) elite” playing in mom and pop tournaments just running around and not playing real basketball.
 
tcgobucks said:
It's been on opening weekend of the NCAA for years. $16 is beyond ridiculous. I was going to the tourney back in the early 80's at St John Arena that would have at least 8 of the 12 games a sellout. Tickets were $5.....and you were lucky if you could get in to most of the games. I'm assuming the TV money makes up for the fact that in the early years at the Schott they would get 15k for several games.....but now they have a final day with nothing over 6k. The OH$AA doesn't care about anything other than money....and they don't even try to hide it anymore lol
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$5 in 1985 money would be $14.71 today adjusted for inflation, so $16 is only a marginal price increase.
 
cdub4 said:
Not sure why you would say "not the Cavs" who sell out and have 99% capacity and then think the Guardians sell out games when their attendance is atrocious and sell.out maybe 2 games out of 81. Doesn't make in sense at all. Maybe you are ignorant of Cleveland pro sports.
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Can't use words Cleveland and pro sports in the same sentence. Makes it confusing for everyone trying to follow along.
 
I will say I live 15 minutes from UD and didn't go to any games this year. It was hard to justify paying $16 for every game all weekend when they were all on Spectrum in my living room plus being able to watch NCAA games. The girls the weekend before were at least 2 games per ticket for the semis so you didn't have to get up and leave for 2 hours between games.
 
it's 90% due to the schools playing. They don't have communities. Not a dig, just a fact. Can't have a crowd when your team has no fan or community support to travel with you. Than location and times make up the other 10%.
 
Typically a large group from Cleveland would make the 2 hour trip to Columbus, meet up with friends and family living in Columbus and enjoy a bunch of games from Thursday night to Saturday Night. The extra hour to Dayton and less familiar surrounds make it less desirable for the Northeast Ohio folks. (Plus we know our teams are going to win, so less drama ! ha just kidding).

All of the other factors mentioned also have some impact; which is why we got the results we did.
 
Lower ticket price
Have multiple tv’s in arena, in concourse, and outside w NCAA games on.
Set up basketball hoops in or near parking lot
Allow some food trucks
Sign me up, I’ll fill UD Arena …
 
ShoelessJoe said:
Years ago most of the tickets were taken by all the OHSAA schools. Their was no public sale other than the participating teams. Each school in the state was allowed 2 tickets each for their Super, Principal, AD and Coach, and maybe a few more, and most schools bought all that was allowed. Newpapers, radio and TV stations were allowed to purchase 2 sets. State elected politicians were allowed 2 sets. The State Tournament was a don't miss event. It was very hard for the average person to get tickets.
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ShoelessJoe has it right. Most of this thread's discussion is about how many people communities bring, but there were plenty of games where you'd see maybe 30 kids in a student section but you'd still have 13,000 people overall because most schools across the state (not just the schools in the Final Four) would have their superintendents, principals, coaches, and maybe a few players all there because it was an event. I doubt you can ever get that back for a variety of reasons, but the OHSAA clearly has plenty of money stockpiled and has the TV revenue to count on for the finals. I'd love for them to try for a couple of years to attempt to bring back those groups that came for the whole weekend. Sell the entire seven-game "books" next year for $60 and see what happens. Market the finals hard to the OHSAA members. You'll probably never see five-digit crowds again, but can we get it back to 8,000 or so? That would still feel like a big-time environment at UD.

I also like FlightCrew's ideas. Get some food trucks in the parking lots for people to have something to do in between games. That was half the fun back in the old days - walking around St. John's and seeing who you'd run into tailgating.
 
Just for fun, I took a look at Kentucky's attendance over the years...

Even they have seen quite a drop in the last dozen or so years. Upwards of 25%
 
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