Any chance for a shot-clock yet?

Keep the shot clock out of Ohio. Game isn't effected as much as people think it is and schools cant afford it. Just another thing theyd have to find a worker for. And if you think that isn't a valid excuse, you have no understanding of public school athletics.
 
ripvanwinkle said:
Keep the shot clock out of Ohio. Game isn't effected as much as people think it is and schools cant afford it. Just another thing theyd have to find a worker for. And if you think that isn't a valid excuse, you have no understanding of public school athletics.
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At the end of the day I Agree. Just need Artificial Intelligence to handle it
 
?????? said:
Yes, but it will be limited. Kinda like a two minute offense in football. When the shot clock hits 9 you lose control. Might even have to play a player with more of an offensive skillset, verses a bully who sets screens
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Another poster that gets it.
 
?????? said:
Yes, but it will be limited. Kinda like a two minute offense in football. When the shot clock hits 9 you lose control. Might even have to play a player with more of an offensive skillset, verses a bully who sets screens
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Fair enough.
 
Doublehelix said:
Again, how on earth can you make this claim when it's literally the hottest topic across the country for HS basketball?

To make this statement is so blind and myopic, and it borders on insanity. And again, to double down, you are saying everyone else is the problem with it.

The fact that you say people everywhere oppose it is beyond bizarre.

The polling is literally the opposite of your statement, yet you will still double down on you being right.
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Overwhelmingly opposed by ADs and coaches in Ohio and everywhere else. Just because you want to yell about doesn’t make it a controversial issue.
 
Doublehelix said:
The reasons are straight out of the playbook for adoption of the rule. Do you live under a rock?

If you honestly don't think those are sufficient reasons, you should just start the keep-away league and see how much interest you get.

So weird what people will say just to avoid ego abuse. So bizarre.
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"The keep away league" You've shown everyone here that you probably are far far outside of the coaching or just high school basketball bubble in general. Sounds like you're reading too much AAU twitter and only the miserable parents in the stands.
 
ripvanwinkle said:
"The keep away league" You've shown everyone here that you probably are far far outside of the coaching or just high school basketball bubble in general. Sounds like you're reading too much AAU twitter and only the miserable parents in the stands.
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LOL this site is the shallow end of the thinking pool. If you agree with the majority of people here, that's not good.

And your screen name is very appropriate. It's like you all watched hoops 100 years ago and woke up and expected it to be the same.
 
Redandgold said:
Overwhelmingly opposed by ADs and coaches in Ohio and everywhere else. Just because you want to yell about doesn’t make it a controversial issue.
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Coaches oppose this? Oh the humanity!!!

Of course they oppose it. Like I said, the majority of coaches publicly say they want it, but privately loathe it, because they know it will require change on their end and a loss of on-court control at times.

ADs are over-worked already, this would just put more on their plate and make their lives harder. That's why they oppose.

I understand the opposition from those two groups. But the feedback loop is broader than that, as it should be. This is a "for a good of the game" issue for me, and I think it would improve the quality of the HS game moving forward.

If we only listened to coaches and administrators on these issues, nothing would ever change.
 
Doublehelix said:
Coaches oppose this? Oh the humanity!!!

Of course they oppose it. Like I said, the majority of coaches publicly say they want it, but privately loathe it, because they know it will require change on their end and a loss of on-court control at times.

ADs are over-worked already, this would just put more on their plate and make their lives harder. That's why they oppose.

I understand the opposition from those two groups. But the feedback loop is broader than that, as it should be. This is a "for a good of the game" issue for me, and I think it would improve the quality of the HS game moving forward.

If we only listened to coaches and administrators on these issues, nothing would ever change.
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Well they’re the ones putting the work in so they should get 99% of the say.
 
Doublehelix said:
But screw the 17 and 18 year olds, huh? They just need to be staunch foot soldiers and toe the line!!!

Guess they're only putting in 1% of the work :rolleyes:

You people will say anything.
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If I am a coach and my job is on the line based on the decisions of 17 and 18 year old's, then yes I am going to do whatever I can to help lead and control those decisions so they make the best one to help the team succeed.

A lot of this conversation to me feels like you think coaches are bad and teach too much strategy of the game and you just want kids to play pick up on the court.

Sports are similar to a lot of things in life where there is a chain of command. When that chain gets broken a lot of bad things can happen. If I am coaching a team with 5 absolute studs (say Richmond Heights) then yeah I probably am not going to do much to influence their on court decisions as they are just better. If I am a team with a couple solid players and then role players, obviously you are going to want to influence who is doing most of the scoring. That is smart coaching 101
 
AugMer said:
If I am a coach and my job is on the line based on the decisions of 17 and 18 year old's, then yes I am going to do whatever I can to help lead and control those decisions so they make the best one to help the team succeed.

A lot of this conversation to me feels like you think coaches are bad and teach too much strategy of the game and you just want kids to play pick up on the court.

Sports are similar to a lot of things in life where there is a chain of command. When that chain gets broken a lot of bad things can happen. If I am coaching a team with 5 absolute studs (say Richmond Heights) then yeah I probably am not going to do much to influence their on court decisions as they are just better. If I am a team with a couple solid players and then role players, obviously you are going to want to influence who is doing most of the scoring. That is smart coaching 101
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How you got to that conclusion based on what I've posted is beyond me.

Do people really have this little understanding of the subtleties between shot clock and no shot clock?

I have literally said all it changes is pace and flow. It has NOTHING to do with style of play, and I've said that at least 500 times.

But as others have mentioned, it will require a coach to be more lenient with shot selection, because they cannot control a dwindling shot clock, which is good for allowing more kids to develop some of those offensive skills. It will also completely eliminate egregious stall ball. Both points can't really be disputed. This will require change - coaches don't like change. I think that's good for the development of the game.

And back to your first sentence, that's assuming more control means more success. In most cases, the opposite happens. Another myth - the more controlling the coach, the better success. Quite the opposite in fact. More control equals less trust (from both player and coach).
 
This is data from MaxPreps looking at 137,000 games.
 

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jdizzle said:
One of the myths that there will be a lot more scoring if you implement a shot clock. It will force teams into their offensive action and there will be more scoring.
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Ok. I agree. I think most people against have said it won't change the scoring and will have little actual impact to the game. Other than eliminating a handful of tournament games where one team tries to hold the ball for extended periods of time and the other team allows it.
 
jdizzle said:
DonJuanDeMarco coming in clutch with the actual data and stats! Well done and thank you.

Puts some of the myths to rest.... thanks!
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Wheres the year over year individual stat?Are the 27 light red teams without shotclock getting outscored by those with shot clock? The demographics dominate that study in my opinion. Way more peace to a basketball game in the south, the study doesn’t seem so clutch to me.
 
?????? said:
Wheres the year over year individual stat?Are the 27 light red teams without shotclock getting outscored by those with shot clock? The demographics dominate that study in my opinion. Way more peace to a basketball game in the south, the study doesn’t seem so clutch to me.
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I was praising the fact that DonJuanDeMarco actually provided some data/stats. The study may not have been "clutch" to you, but I thought it was interesting. A lot of people come on here and just spit out their opinions as it is the only truth, I like the fact that he provided facts. Data can be read a lot of different ways and there is always holes in data.
 
jdizzle said:
I was praising the fact that DonJuanDeMarco actually provided some data/stats. The study may not have been "clutch" to you, but I thought it was interesting. A lot of people come on here and just spit out their opinions as it is the only truth, I like the fact that he provided facts. Data can be read a lot of different ways and there is always holes in data.
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I agree looks like no myths are put the rest
 
Doublehelix said:
How you got to that conclusion based on what I've posted is beyond me.

Do people really have this little understanding of the subtleties between shot clock and no shot clock?

I have literally said all it changes is pace and flow. It has NOTHING to do with style of play, and I've said that at least 500 times.

But as others have mentioned, it will require a coach to be more lenient with shot selection, because they cannot control a dwindling shot clock, which is good for allowing more kids to develop some of those offensive skills. It will also completely eliminate egregious stall ball. Both points can't really be disputed. This will require change - coaches don't like change. I think that's good for the development of the game.

And back to your first sentence, that's assuming more control means more success. In most cases, the opposite happens. Another myth - the more controlling the coach, the better success. Quite the opposite in fact. More control equals less trust (from both player and coach).
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Players don't develop skills in games. They come into the games with the skills they've developed. Which they are trying to do now so that wouldn't change.
 
jdizzle said:
One of the myths that there will be a lot more scoring if you implement a shot clock. It will force teams into their offensive action and there will be more scoring.
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He knows what myths you mean. In fact, he like to talk about said myths often.

He's just salty someone posted evidence to the contrary. People that think they know everything typically are like that.
 
Talk some sense said:
Players don't develop skills in games. They come into the games with the skills they've developed. Which they are trying to do now so that wouldn't change.
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Yeah...and?

The point is a whole bunch of those players with already developed skills don't get to use them in an ultra coach controlled environment, which imo, is making the sport terrible to watch, and is a large part of my argument for the shot clock. Contrary to belief, it has NOTHING to do with scoring or entertainment. Even though you can say that 1 million times and the opponents will still say "you just prefer a more entertaining style". Which has happened in this thread 25 million times and continues to be super super odd.
 
jdizzle said:
DonJuanDeMarco coming in clutch with the actual data and stats! Well done and thank you.

Puts some of the myths to rest.... thanks!
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I've been saying this for years...... North Dakota has been the only state in the top in scoring forever..... They have had the clock forever as well.

Stand by for the 'but the flow will be better" claims.
 
?????? said:
Wheres the year over year individual stat?Are the 27 light red teams without shotclock getting outscored by those with shot clock? The demographics dominate that study in my opinion. Way more peace to a basketball game in the south, the study doesn’t seem so clutch to me.
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The results have changed little (other than scoring is down) over the last 20 years. North Dakota has been the only state with the clock in the top 10 since they went to the clock.
 
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