A Simple Solution To The Competitive Balance Issue

[SWGA Fan]

Whether a school is open enrollment or not has nothing to do with their football roster. With a couple of exceptions, most open enrollment public schools are not bringing in football players. Those that do have a bigger competitive balance number. The competitive balance number is the one to look at. Take the CB number and divide it by 3 and that is roughly the number of kids who have been brought in who play football - give or take a few who may only count as 1 under the CB formula. This CB number does not count those who transfer by actually moving into the district - like the kid from Michigan for Toledo Central Catholic or the QB from Copley for Massillon (both of whom I assume moved into the district or they wouldn't have been able to play the second half of the season). Those players are a 0 for CB purposes. I found it interesting that the guy Spectrum chose to interview on the sideline before the Hoban-Massillon game was Justin Zwick - Orville state championship quarterback who transferred to Massillon after his sophomore season. I'm not knocking any of these schools or especially the parents who want what is best for their kids. I'm just pointing out facts. They are all operating legally within the system as it currently exists. At least I think that they are.

Frankly, I'd be happy if the privates that recruit and the open enrollments that recruit, or move in transfers to play football, would just say: "We won because we have much better talent - not because we have a better "culture" or coaching staff or because we work harder than everybody else." The real on the field measure of any high school athletic program or coaching staff is "Do you do less with more or more with less?" Do you beat teams that are more talented than you; that have more college recruits than you have? If so, you probably have a pretty good program, culture, and coaching staff.

I saw what I thought were some pretty poorly coached games with tremendous talent in the state finals. When all you do is line up and run inside zone, outside zone, bubble screen and go routes, it ain't rocket science. When you line up and play a base defense with 7 or 8 in coverage because you can get great pressure with a 3-4 man rush, it ain't rocket science. You win with those schemes when you have more talent. When you have D1 bodies all over the field, it ain't rocket science. When you have a ton of pre-snap penalties and have to use all of your timeouts trying to get the right personnel in or because the play clock is running down, well.......... That's my last word on the topic. Just admit the truth. It's not a level playing field. Then we can all go about our merry ways and compete as best we can within the system as it is because, as someone said earlier in this thread, there really isn't a simple solution.

Maybe it IS coaching. Our 2015 team, had ONE TE who went to South Carolina, and rarely played before a career ending debilitating injury. And a WR who went to mighty Middle Tennessee State. And a QB1 who received an invitation to play WR at the United States Naval Academy. And that team, plus our 15-0 team in 2014. Were a combined 30-0 having won back to back state and one National Championship with LOCAL talent from rural Georgia. But we DO have a culture, and a bunch of farm boys who love football. And will give a 110% of whatever they have, to make their rural community of 46,000 proud.

 

[Crimson and Black]

WELL, perhaps you SHOULD. Since you lads proclaim that Ohio is the creme de la creme of NATIONAL high school football. Only thing IS though, Ohio has five nationally ranked teams, while Georgia has TWELVE. And Cali, Texas, and Florida, each have more than FIFTEEN! And Georgia has by far, the smallest population of those three.

And I was merely pointing out the point that certain schools do have distinct advantages, BUT. It takes MORE, especially in Georgia, to GETRDONE in the big leagues of GHSA 7A football! HECK, the #1 ranked team in 6A football in Georgia (#88 nationally) is ranked TENTH in the state. 6A would be Div. II in Ohio.

OK

 

[SWGA Fan]

You make some really good points bro. I don't think people are okay with blowout championship games I just truthfully feel like in some years a team is that good in my personal opinion I don't think competitive balance is to blame for championship games being so lopsided. I think from the public school point of view you have them Public schools that just know how to build a program and everybody else is just behind and in a sense you can't punish them for being better than everybody else and I think in order to be able to establish a strong high school program you have to be solid from the youth program up. I don't want to ruffle any feathers but I am a current youth coach right now in Massillon and I can speak for some of the youth teams around here and the ones that complain are the same ones that do not care about their youth program and then blame everybody else for their High School not having success or they blame other schools for stealing their talent when in reality is their fault if you have a solid program kids are not going to want to leave now you might get the case where a kid might leave because he might not get no playing time and that's okay but some of the programs that I can speak for in Stark County is terrible and it's becoming a pattern in the high school. I personally think competitive balance is fine if they're not going to ever separate the public schools and the private schools then there's no point of complaining at all in my personal opinion you going to have some great years you going to have some bad years but I definitely feel like Ohio High School football took a great step this past year especially on the national level.

Then how do you explain why privates in Georgia, have little to NO chance at competing with the upper echelon of GHSA public school football? How many privates do you know who have twelve month strength and conditioning? Or have a fifth quarter cafeteria, for the football team. Or multiple meals per day on campus, twelve months per year? Or Fifth Period football in some form or fashion, every school day. Ten days of Spring practice football away from mom, dad, and girlfriend, with an intersquad scrimmage, and a Spring football game against an outside opponent. Plus, ten days of Fall practice, before the Fall football scrimmage against an outside opponent. Plus numerous summer passing camps across the Southeast, and several OTA activities for the OL/DL. Plus, a $4,500,000 indoor practice facility, with a separate locker room and fifty yard indoor weightlifting, and agility drill venue. THAT'S GHSA big boy ball.

 

[MassillonK1D330]

Then how do you explain why privates in Georgia, have little to NO chance at competing with the upper echelon of GHSA public school football? How many privates do you know who have twelve month strength and conditioning? Or have a fifth quarter cafeteria, for the football team. Or multiple meals per day on campus, twelve months per year? Or Fifth Period football in some form or fashion, every school day. Ten days of Spring practice football away from mom, dad, and girlfriend, with an intersquad scrimmage, and a Spring football game against an outside opponent. Plus, ten days of Fall practice, before the Fall football scrimmage against an outside opponent. Plus numerous summer passing camps across the Southeast, and several OTA activities for the OL/DL. Plus, a $4,500,000 indoor practice facility, with a separate locker room and fifty yard indoor weightlifting, and agility drill venue. THAT'S GHSA big boy ball.

 

[NEOfan]

Then how do you explain why privates in Georgia, have little to NO chance at competing with the upper echelon of GHSA public school football? How many privates do you know who have twelve month strength and conditioning? Or have a fifth quarter cafeteria, for the football team. Or multiple meals per day on campus, twelve months per year? Or Fifth Period football in some form or fashion, every school day. Ten days of Spring practice football away from mom, dad, and girlfriend, with an intersquad scrimmage, and a Spring football game against an outside opponent. Plus, ten days of Fall practice, before the Fall football scrimmage against an outside opponent. Plus numerous summer passing camps across the Southeast, and several OTA activities for the OL/DL. Plus, a $4,500,000 indoor practice facility, with a separate locker room and fifty yard indoor weightlifting, and agility drill venue. THAT'S GHSA big boy ball.

My brother in Christ we do not care

 

[Grigsby22]

And I asked for a list of the specific "cheaters," so that they could be exposed on Yappi.

SPOILER: its every private school that consistently wins….and every public that consistently wins

 

[MassillonK1D330]

My brother in Christ we do not care

 

[MassillonK1D330]

Maybe it IS coaching. Our 2015 team, had ONE TE who went to South Carolina, and rarely played before a career ending debilitating injury. And a WR who went to mighty Middle Tennessee State. And a QB1 who received an invitation to play WR at the United States Naval Academy. And that team, plus our 15-0 team in 2014. Were a combined 30-0 having won back to back state and one National Championship with LOCAL talent from rural Georgia. But we DO have a culture, and a bunch of farm boys who love football. And will give a 110% of whatever they have, to make their rural community of 46,000 proud.

 

[cjb5656]

Whining is just what we hear in Georgia as well. Only thing IS though, there are NO privates in 7A football in Georgia. Benedictine was supposed to be the baddest team in Georgia 4A football this season. Having access to a population of about 600,000 in Savannah metro, plus lower state South Carolina around Hilton Head. And they were BLASTED by three scores by a PUBLIC school in round three of five. In fact, there is but ONE private school in Georgia, who is nationally ranked. And that is a team in Northwest Georgia, who plays in a N.C. private school league. And doesn't even play many GHSA schools. They beat middling Langston Hughes by three points.

Langston Hughes? That’s the school of our future QB, Air Noland.

 

[xXAviatorEliteXx]

Without name dropping, I promise you that several high schools across the Mahoning Valley have tried to recruit guys out of Warren Harding. Whether they're successful in that regard or not, nobody really cares because ultimately, those schools don't win. If anything, they can play the "innocent" role because they aren't successful on the field.

Meanwhile, here's an example of why many players come to Ursuline... In 2018, they played freshmen QB Brady Shannon, RB/DB Demarcus McElroy, WR Dean Boyd, and Jakylan Irving on a varsity squad that finished that season with a record of 1-9. When Reardon came back in 2019, the Irish finished 2-8. By the time those guys were seniors in 2021, they beat a loaded Glenville squad in the playoffs en route to finishing as the Division III state runner up. Coaching & development brought those guys up, so Reardon's "proof of concept," along with the strong tradition that he helped build there, "recruits" itself.

Mind you, Ursuline's first state title ever came in 2000, which was two years after the original Youngstown East closed. I was a freshman at Warren Harding in 1998-99 and that year, Anthony Abron transfered over after East closed in 1998 because, apparently, he didn't want to go to Ursuline, Mooney, Chaney, Rayen, or Wilson. Abron finished that year as a 1st Team All Ohio selection before ending up at Toledo. Nobody ever talks about him, but he's the guy that pretty much opened up the "pipeline" from Youngstown to Harding, but they aren't the only area school has benefitted from their talent. Hubbard, Howland, Fitch, Liberty, etc. have all had athletes from the Yo. Heck, current Charlotte Hornet Terry Rozier went to Shaker Heights and will tell you in a heartbeat that he's from Youngstown.

OTOH, Mooney has been winning state titles since 1973. Like Ursuline, they were competitive, but didn't make much noise in the 90's. By the mid 2000's, they got in on the action with state crowns in 2004, 2006, and 2009. Personally, their teams in 2006, 2007, and 2009 are three of the best that I've ever seen Harding play and 2005 wasn't exactly chopped liver either. Then again, you said that there's "publics who had zero chance to compete with the football factory," yet Coldwater knocked off Mooney in the 2005 & 2007 Division IV state title games. In the same year as the latter, Marion Local defeated Ursuline to win the Division V state crown. All of these years later, you see what Coldwater and (especially) Marion Local are still doing. The aspect of "community" and coaching builds their youth up to take on the world.

In 2014, Coach Nate Moore led Cincinatti La Salle, the former doormat of the GCL, to dominant wins over Colerain (40-21), Moeller (34-9), Elder (56-35), etc. en route to a 14-1 record and their first ever state title. In fact, Moore built their program up so tough, the Lancers won three more state titles after he left that offseason (2015, 2016, & 2019). In his first season at Massillon in 2015, the Tigers went 4-6. By 2017, they were in the Division II state semi and despite falling short to Winton Woods, they kept knocking at the door every year. They've strengthened their regular season schedule every year since he's got there and as we all know, exactly one week ago today, everything finally came full circle for Tigertown. That process didn't happen overnight and now that they've tasted the ultimate success, it will only get even better from here.

As a diehard Harding fan who grew up when I did, I understand the benefits that come with being brought up with a strong foundation. When "outsiders" see that, they want to be a part of it. I know several great players from other schools who wanted to play for Harding, but their parents wouldn't let them, so I'll bet anything that there's many athletes living by Massillon, Hoban, Eds, TCC, and Glenville thinking, "I wish that I was a part of that!"

Long post, but as I said earlier, when "community" meets superior coaching, that's when real success can happen and when it does, more & more families are going to want their kids to be a part of it.

Community is missing from a lot of places in Neo. 100% correct.

 

[John Lee Pettimore]

And I'd rather play three national top twenty five ranked teams in a row, on the road. Like we did when we won the 2015 National Championship. Than play in that snow covered crap you boys encounter in Ohio.

Pettiburn, I MIGHT like you a LOT, if I ever met you on the street. Until you opened that BIG FAT MOUF of yours.

As an aside, can you picture in your mind's eye, a high school game being pushed back, because of a later start due to OT from one or two previous games. And the stadium cleanup crew having from maybe 12:00am til about 11:00am the next day, to get the venue ready to go for a 1:00pm kick off. THAT, plus that damn soccer team (ATL United) seems to garner priority on SATURDAY NIGHT as well. And we have TEN CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES.

National Championships are not to be taken seriously....and if you DO decide to take them seriously....how many a dem dare NC'S Y'all got? Cause a we'z got's nine of em.

That "snow covered crap" is what seperates the men from the boys, any candy arse can play in a climate controlled environment, get some of them southern boys up here in December and see how they fare. They be back on the bus with the heater running.

 

[John Lee Pettimore]

Then how do you explain why privates in Georgia, have little to NO chance at competing with the upper echelon of GHSA public school football? How many privates do you know who have twelve month strength and conditioning? Or have a fifth quarter cafeteria, for the football team. Or multiple meals per day on campus, twelve months per year? Or Fifth Period football in some form or fashion, every school day. Ten days of Spring practice football away from mom, dad, and girlfriend, with an intersquad scrimmage, and a Spring football game against an outside opponent. Plus, ten days of Fall practice, before the Fall football scrimmage against an outside opponent. Plus numerous summer passing camps across the Southeast, and several OTA activities for the OL/DL. Plus, a $4,500,000 indoor practice facility, with a separate locker room and fifty yard indoor weightlifting, and agility drill venue. THAT'S GHSA big boy ball.

With all that emphasis on football down there in Ga. how do those players have time to date their sisters?

 

[Crimson and Black]

With all that emphasis on football down there in Ga. how do those players have time to date their sisters?

 

[lc5397]

What does THAT even mean? Buford has every advantage known to modern man. And draws from 2,000,000 in metro Atlanta. And they lost in round three of five in GHSA 7A!

What part don’t you understand?

I also don’t know what a random team in GA has anything to do with anything.

 

[CedarBuck92]

National Championships are not to be taken seriously....and if you DO decide to take them seriously....how many a dem dare NC'S Y'all got? Cause a we'z got's nine of em.

That "snow covered crap" is what seperates the men from the boys, any candy arse can play in a climate controlled environment, get some of them southern boys up here in December and see how they fare. They be back on the bus with the heater running.

In fairness, even our teams want the heat turned on after a usual December game.