A Simple Solution To The Competitive Balance Issue

S

Snowbelt Man

Active member
If your CB number is 100 or above, you play in D1. If your number is 50-99, you cannot play in any division lower than D2. If your number is 25-49, you cannot play in any division lower than D3. If your number is less than 25, you play in what would be your normally assigned division under the current rules. By the way, I'm not sure how Glenville's CB number is 0. I have great respect for Coach Ginn and his staff. We played them in 2021 and our JV has played them each of the last three years. D4 is definitely not a level playing field with Glenville in it. No matter what anyone says, when a school has a CB number in football of 144 and a band consisting of 8 students, something is out of whack.
 
 
Snowbelt Man said:
If your CB number is 100 or above, you play in D1. If your number is 50-99, you cannot play in any division lower than D2. If your number is 25-49, you cannot play in any division lower than D3. If your number is less than 25, you play in what would be your normally assigned division under the current rules. By the way, I'm not sure how Glenville's CB number is 0. I have great respect for Coach Ginn and his staff. We played them in 2021 and our JV has played them each of the last three years. D4 is definitely not a level playing field with Glenville in it. No matter what anyone says, when a school has a CB number in football of 144 and a band consisting of 8 students, something is out of whack.
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That is quite interesting really.

It does come from the reporting from the school so there is that.

Do they have open enrollment or are they a closed district?


Who has a CB in football of 144 and 8 in the band?
 
Thavoice said:
That is quite interesting really.

It does come from the reporting from the school so there is that.

Do they have open enrollment or are they a closed district?


Who has a CB in football of 144 and 8 in the band?
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They get their players from Glenville and Ginn Academy, but the loophole is that boys from Ginn Academy don't count towards CB numbers and only boys on the team count towards Glenville's total boys. When in actuality the total number of boys from Ginn Academy should be added to Glenville's enrollment if they are going to take all the good athletes from there or they should count towards the CB#. According to the NCES Ginn Acdemy has 517 boys counting all grades. Not sure if Ginn Academy is a junior high or middle school as well or only 9-12. So if you tack on whatever Ginn Academy's total is that puts them in D-II at a minimum if not D-I.
 
simkon said:
They get their players from Glenville and Ginn Academy, but the loophole is that boys from Ginn Academy don't count towards CB numbers and only boys on the team count towards Glenville's total boys. When in actuality the total number of boys from Ginn Academy should be added to Glenville's enrollment if they are going to take all the good athletes from there or they should count towards the CB#. According to the NCES Ginn Acdemy has 517 boys counting all grades. Not sure if Ginn Academy is a junior high or middle school as well or only 9-12. So if you tack on whatever Ginn Academy's total is that puts them in D-II at a minimum if not D-I.
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Yea, that sounds like a complete goatrope and how the OHSAA allows that is a travesty.
 
simkon said:
They get their players from Glenville and Ginn Academy, but the loophole is that boys from Ginn Academy don't count towards CB numbers and only boys on the team count towards Glenville's total boys. When in actuality the total number of boys from Ginn Academy should be added to Glenville's enrollment if they are going to take all the good athletes from there or they should count towards the CB#.
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Don't think that's quite true. IIRC, the only GA students who can play for Glenville are the ones who live in the Glenville attendance zone. As such, GA students who live in a different zone (e.g. Collinwood) should not be added to Glenville's number.

OTOH, it's also true that every GA student who lives in the Glenville zone is part of Glenville's talent pool, just as if they attended Glenville. As such, a more accurate count would add every GA student who lives in the Glenville zone to Glenville's count and not just the ones who play.

Finally, it would be more transparent if OHSAA listed addbacks separately from base enrollment like they do with CB. A school would have three numbers: base (EMIS), addbacks, and CB.
 
A "simple solution to competitive balance" is to simply get rid of it. It solves nothing and is only an excuse for programs that can't win.

This is coming from a fan of a program that has been up & down in recent years. I'd much rather see my community get back to our roots and start building our youth up better to put them in the position to succeed rather than to worry about how certain schools attract athletes.
 
Oil Filter said:
Don't think that's quite true. IIRC, the only GA students who can play for Glenville are the ones who live in the Glenville attendance zone. As such, GA students who live in a different zone (e.g. Collinwood) should not be added to Glenville's number.

OTOH, it's also true that every GA student who lives in the Glenville zone is part of Glenville's talent pool, just as if they attended Glenville. As such, a more accurate count would add every GA student who lives in the Glenville zone to Glenville's count and not just the ones who play.

Finally, it would be more transparent if OHSAA listed addbacks separately from base enrollment like they do with CB. A school would have three numbers: base (EMIS), addbacks, and CB.
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I think at least 90% of the Ginn Academy students if not more reside in the neighboorhoods (or at least they reside there on paper) that are part of Glenville's zone and the ones that aren't should count towards their respective school.
I can see if the NCES has any information on this.
Either way Glenville would be at least D-II if not D-I.
 
simkon said:
I think at least 90% of the Ginn Academy students if not more reside in the neighboorhoods (or at least they reside there on paper) that are part of Glenville's zone and the ones that aren't should count towards their respective school.
I can see if the NCES has any information on this.
Either way Glenville would be at least D-II if not D-I.
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Dunno if that's true or not. If you look at only Glenville's enrollment numbers, they would be DV (remember, they only graduated ~20 boys). It's not likely that GA students would bump them 3 or 4 divisions.

ODE says Glenville has 134, 125, and 81 students in grades 9, 10, 11, respectively. The school has a 50-50 male-female split. That give them a base number of ~170. GA has 77, 88, and 66 boys in grades, 9, 10, and 11. If 75% of them live in the Glenville zone, that would be another 170 students. Add them together, that's about 340 boys. That's a medium-size DIII.

You might also note that if OHSAA counted 10-12 instead of 9-11 (which would be more representative of the size of their talent pool), that would give them a base number ~300. That's a smaller DIII.

Glenville's current listed enrollment is 249. That's approximately their actual enrollment plus 70-80 addbacks.
 
simkon said:
They get their players from Glenville and Ginn Academy, but the loophole is that boys from Ginn Academy don't count towards CB numbers and only boys on the team count towards Glenville's total boys. When in actuality the total number of boys from Ginn Academy should be added to Glenville's enrollment if they are going to take all the good athletes from there or they should count towards the CB#. According to the NCES Ginn Acdemy has 517 boys counting all grades. Not sure if Ginn Academy is a junior high or middle school as well or only 9-12. So if you tack on whatever Ginn Academy's total is that puts them in D-II at a minimum if not D-I.
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Problem with Glenville is that they’re intentionally doing this for publicity. Couldn’t win D2 or D3, so move down to D4 and you get more notoriety for winning a state title. Toledo Central Catholic obviously has built a lock on the Toledo area, but they would love higher enrollment numbers. Being in a very rough part of town does not help them
 
Oil Filter said:
Dunno if that's true or not. If you look at only Glenville's enrollment numbers, they would be DV (remember, they only graduated ~20 boys). It's not likely that GA students would bump them 3 or 4 divisions.

Glenville's current listed enrollment is 249. That's approximately their actual enrollment plus 70-80 addbacks.
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According to NCES Ginn Academy has 517 boys right now, I just don't know the grade break down. I would think that would easily bump them up to D-II at a minimum even if only 75% live in the zone and only ⅔rds are the appropriate grades.
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
Yeah I’ve never delved too deeply into how that all works but it does seem like a sham that they are in such a low division
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I generally do not look at the big boy divisions and their CB but I have learned a lot in this thread.
Oil Filter said:
Dunno if that's true or not. If you look at only Glenville's enrollment numbers, they would be DV (remember, they only graduated ~20 boys). It's not likely that GA students would bump them 3 or 4 divisions.

ODE says Glenville has 134, 125, and 81 students in grades 9, 10, 11, respectively. The school has a 50-50 male-female split. That give them a base number of ~170. GA has 77, 88, and 66 boys in grades, 9, 10, and 11. If 75% of them live in the Glenville zone, that would be another 170 students. Add them together, that's about 340 boys. That's a medium-size DIII.

You might also note that if OHSAA counted 10-12 instead of 9-11 (which would be more representative of the size of their talent pool), that would give them a base number ~300. That's a smaller DIII.

Glenville's current listed enrollment is 249. That's approximately their actual enrollment plus 70-80 addbacks.
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For CB it is in arears, and they use grades 10-12 and any FROSH who played this season moving fwd
 
simkon said:
According to NCES Ginn Academy has 517 boys right now, I just don't know the grade break down. I would think that would easily bump them up to D-II at a minimum even if only 75% live in the zone and only ⅔rds are the appropriate grades.
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I just gave you the 2022 numbers straight from ODE. Believe them or don't.
 
Simple solution....top 15% of teams in division go up every year and the bottom 15% go down. It gets all the open enrollment and private who both cheat and recruit in the same divisions so they can beat each other brains in while others who don't get to fight it out against similar competition. Easiest way that cant be manipulated like enrollment numbers. after 4 years, real competitive balance.
 
Oil Filter said:
When that singular class that won the title is long gone and you're getting your head kicked in for three years.
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That doesn’t really happen anymore
It’s the same schools winning every state title.

Not to mention if you’re that bad the next year you weren’t going far in the playoffs anyway no matter the division.
 
Just.here said:
When you win a state championship you move up a division for the next 3 years. You keep winning, you keep moving up. That’s the simplest.
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Stupidity Are You Stupid GIF
 
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