35 Second Shot Clock Allowed by NFHS Starting in 2022-2023

Dragon72 said:
I have officiated a number of games where the crowd yelled at something that is simply not a rule. Such as the crowd wanting traveling on a player who dove for a loose ball and slid (didn't try to get up or roll) or the crowd screaming for 3 seconds when the ball is in the air on a shot or rebound. Just because everyone in the gym thinks they are right, many times they aren't.
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Agree - but many times they are and the ref is wrong.

You say that, yet in this case, you feel the governing bodies are wrong, and these two dudes are right?

You can’t make this stuff up. The irony is THICK
 
You simply have a different opinion then I do. I gather that you are from the SW area of the state and may have seen slow-down games. I am from the SE area and I have seen one slowdown quarter (third quarter) in a game from almost 25 years ago. I don't see the need for a shot-clock but you do which doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. I am also a league adminstrator and I know the problem in finding people to run clocks. It is usually easy to find somebody on boys nights but on girls and junior high nights, there are problems finding people.
 
If you pass a rule for high school, that rule must filter down into junior high. Finding good help for junior high games isn't easy, ask any adminstrator.
 
No one said it was going to be easy. Something being hard shouldn’t be the reason you don’t do it if it elevates the game.

Again, kind of like the basis of being a competitive person. They’re not afraid of a few bumps in the road to make it better for the long haul.
 
UCArch said:
All of the signs and momentum show this is getting closer and is going to happen eventually.

Leave it to a ref for everyone else in the gym to know it was traveling yet they will be the only one to triple down on their position to tell you 100 ways why it wasn’t, knowing the whole time it was traveling, but not having the conviction just to own a mistake and move on.

This is you in this thread.
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As far as analogies go this one is pretty horrible.
 
Dragon72 said:
If you pass a rule for high school, that rule must filter down into junior high. Finding good help for junior high games isn't easy, ask any adminstrator.
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I hope they have the sense not to implement it lower than Freshman (too low) games for a number of reasons....

I worked Jr Hi games where the kids on the clock were serving detention.
 
Leave it at varsity for 40 seconds - maybe freshman and JV at 50 or not at all. But you probably need some transition on the JV and Freshman levels.

Yes there will be a lot of terrible shots early on, but over time, coaches will be forced to teach and allow more free flowing shot making, because it will be necessary many times per game.
 
AllSports12 said:
You don't have to understand, in fact you don't have to even try to understand, but that simple fact that 41 other states have always had the opportunity to implement the clock, but didn't, should indicate to you that thy feel their spot in the rotation is pretty important.....

Now, since the option is available to them.......



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You don't understand. it was an excuse, and who care what other groups think? If it was important enough to you, you could do it. It wasn't important enough. I personally don't agree with them, so now they will or will not for whatever reason. The game has evolved and Ohio chose not to evolve with it. Heck, in mom's day, women only played on half court games because the game was thought to be too strenuous for females. Well that thought changed.
 
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BASESWIMPARENT said:
OK OK, not an "excuse", just not a good reason. Now I will lobby for half court basketball for girls again.
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You are entitled to your opinion.

Ironically, the last two states that employed half court 6 on 6 basketball were Iowa (1993) and Oklahoma (1995).... What was one of the reasons why they changed you ask? ............

They wanted a spot in the NFHS rules committee rotation.

Funny how stuff comes around isn't it ? ;)
 
Dragon72 said:
I have officiated a number of games where the crowd yelled at something that is simply not a rule. Such as the crowd wanting traveling on a player who dove for a loose ball and slid (didn't try to get up or roll) or the crowd screaming for 3 seconds when the ball is in the air on a shot or rebound. Just because everyone in the gym thinks they are right, many times they aren't.
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Fans, parents in particular, are the absolute worst.
 
AllSports12 said:
You are entitled to your opinion.

Ironically, the last two states that employed half court 6 on 6 basketball were Iowa (1993) and Oklahoma (1995).... What was one of the reasons why they changed you ask? ............

They wanted a spot in the NFHS rules committee rotation.

Funny how stuff comes around isn't it ? ;)
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Exactly my point, they wanted a spot on the committee and were willing to sacrifice in perpetuity having a shot clock although every high level game in the world amateur and professional have a shot clock. So we are willing to sacrifice the greater good of the way the game is being played to hold a spot on a meaningless committee that they don't need to run their state athletic association. What is so hard to figure that out. WHAT IS SO DARN IMPORTANT BEING ON THAT COMMITTEE? You certainly don't need it to run a state athletic organization and Ohio makes it virtually impossible to participate in national level events. So what is the reason?
 
High school basketball isn't really a "high level game". In my opinion. For 95% if the athletes this as high as they will go in the sport.
 
Everyone are getting their pannties wet. Until the kids start putting the time in at most schools and the Skill set gets better, you can put in a 20 second or 40 second shot clock and it won’t matter. The haves and the hav Nots will continue at almost every school. It’s incredible how the skill set is bad at many, many schools
 
BASESWIMPARENT said:
Exactly my point, they wanted a spot on the committee and were willing to sacrifice in perpetuity having a shot clock although every high level game in the world amateur and professional have a shot clock. So we are willing to sacrifice the greater good of the way the game is being played to hold a spot on a meaningless committee that they don't need to run their state athletic association. What is so hard to figure that out. WHAT IS SO DARN IMPORTANT BEING ON THAT COMMITTEE? You certainly don't need it to run a state athletic organization and Ohio makes it virtually impossible to participate in national level events. So what is the reason
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Now it comes out...... You want to be able to compete in some stupid national event for kids....... We can take that angle a step further with using that same analogy on this question........ Why don't schools choose to opt out of the OHSAA to pursue that opportunity to play in national events? They have the ability to do just that this very moment.

The reason why the schools don't is exactly what you are peddling..... the greater good. And again, for proof of this, you need to look no further than who the "schools" are that currently participate in events like this. Yep, predominantly prep schools. We already have garbage like this in place, it's called AAU, and well know what a stellar organization that is,

Finally, you keep asking about the importance of the committee. Well, two very significant rule changes in basketball occurred with Ohio's support (one initiated) in the past dozen years..... One was replay review in state championship tournaments and the other...... yep, this years' change allowing the state adoption of the shot clock. Never mind the people from Ohio that were selected by their peers over the years to chair those committees. You think that is meaningless, with nothing to offer in support of that opinion. That opinion is purely a product of ignorance, which from the looks of things is intentional in this matter.

Again, all one has to look at is the more than 80% of the members that didn't adopt the clock "when they could have" and the more than 95% of the high schools not opting out of their ability to be a member of their respective state associations "when they could have".
 
Ohio high schools are some of the most reactive in the country. They sit around and wait on things instead of being a leader of change.

This won’t happen overnight but it will happen eventually. And the fear people have with adopting it is weird. It’s a shot clock, it’s not that big of a deal.
 
AllSports12 said:
I hope they have the sense not to implement it lower than Freshman (too low) games for a number of reasons....

I worked Jr Hi games where the kids on the clock were serving detention.
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At the lower college levels where it’s hard to find people to sit at the table (and the schools don’t want to pay), I often see injured/suspended players for the home team running the clocks. They are more interested in playing on their phones than doing their job.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
I think the whole extra volunteer thing is a tad overblown. We do this already in football, let's not make it more than it is. Heck most schools have even installed scoreboards showing players points and fouls
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No, it really isn't. Finding people to work athletic events is a very real issue for many schools, even when you entice them with free admission or in some cases, straight up pay them.
 
Ericles said:
No, it really isn't. Finding people to work athletic events is a very real issue for many schools, even when you entice them with free admission or in some cases, straight up pay them.
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And yet there’s thousands of events a day, it would be fine.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
Bingo. Same result as a missed shot, but we've ate 60-90 seconds up. I'd rather just have the defense rewarded for 35 seconds of great play and prevent a team from doing this. Gives more opportunities for multiple kids to score and more playing time across the board as you'll have more possessions
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You don't have to play great defense for 35 seconds. Just pack it in and then rebound a clock beating 3 point attempt after you make the good shooter give up the ball or try a circus shot.
 
UCArch said:
My eyeballs see a stunning lack of skill development at the high school level. I put more of the blame of this on the coaches than I do the kids. All the kids I’ve known that play basketball have no problem working hard to develop a skill set if they are given the opportunity.
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Said no coach ever "Don't work on your skills like shooting and ball handling".
 
UCArch said:
Ohio high schools are some of the most reactive in the country. They sit around and wait on things instead of being a leader of change.

This won’t happen overnight but it will happen eventually. And the fear people have with adopting it is weird. It’s a shot clock, it’s not that big of a deal.
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It's a huge deal for coaches who use one or two minutes per possession early in the game to work the ball around against a zone to see how they respond to movement, positioning and just to wear them down for later in the second half. Can they adjust? Yes, but why should they have to adjust?

The other thing that will happen is when teams of vastly different abilities face each other the score is going to be more lopsided than current structure. The team that is already up 85-34 still has to keep shooting every 30 seconds. No more pulling the ball out and passing it around 30 times before taking a shot.

If your up by 40 and you get a defensive rebound with 38 seconds left in the game do you take the turnover or attempt another shot?
 
Talk some sense said:
Said no coach ever "Don't work on your skills like shooting and ball handling".
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Of course they say that, but practice time is for running their offense and doing things their way.

Most practice shooting - very few practice offensive moves to get shots, because why would they? They don’t have to take those shots.

Its why kids like the AAU style better. It allows them to more freely play to their strengths. Yes, I know a lot of aspects of AAU suck, but it’s where kids are learning offensive skills. I’m not talking about the lower levels where everyone can be on a team. I’m taking about kids good enough to make their varsity teams.
 
zebrastripes said:
At the lower college levels where it’s hard to find people to sit at the table (and the schools don’t want to pay), I often see injured/suspended players for the home team running the clocks. They are more interested in playing on their phones than doing their job.
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Schools that "hire" students to sit at the table and run the clock or keep the score book don't seem to be concerned about quality of work as much as just getting through the game. An inexperienced clock operator can and will cost a team a game form time to time.

Example- Team A scores go ahead basket with 3 seconds left in game and Team B calls a timeout immediately to set up a play and preserve time.
Team B can now recieve the ball, make a pass along the baseline to another player who is out of bounds, who then can throw the ball down the court to a third team B player at half court. When should the clock start? The correct answer is when the third player makes contact with the ball. However, rent-a-kid time keeper started it on the first pass, not paying attention to the rule or the game officials arm still in the air, so team B makes the layup after the horn sounds but clearly would only have required 1 or 2 seconds to get the shot off. The remedy? They did a do over, this time team A was ready and team B lost the game. Clock keeper 1 , team B 0.

This is going to happen in a game where the ball will hit the rim but the shot clock keeper will forget to reset it as they are more engrossed in the game than their job.

I may be in good with it if they hire an official to run the clocks, rather than a random parent or student.
 
D4fan said:
Schools that "hire" students to sit at the table and run the clock or keep the score book don't seem to be concerned about quality of work as much as just getting through the game. An inexperienced clock operator can and will cost a team a game form time to time.

Example- Team A scores go ahead basket with 3 seconds left in game and Team B calls a timeout immediately to set up a play and preserve time.
Team B can now recieve the ball, make a pass along the baseline to another player who is out of bounds, who then can throw the ball down the court to a third team B player at half court. When should the clock start? The correct answer is when the third player makes contact with the ball. However, rent-a-kid time keeper started it on the first pass, not paying attention to the rule or the game officials arm still in the air, so team B makes the layup after the horn sounds but clearly would only have required 1 or 2 seconds to get the shot off. The remedy? They did a do over, this time team A was ready and team B lost the game. Clock keeper 1 , team B 0.

This is going to happen in a game where the ball will hit the rim but the shot clock keeper will forget to reset it as they are more engrossed in the game than their job.

I may be in good with it if they hire an official to run the clocks, rather than a random parent or student.
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I saw students doing a varsity game once this past year.
TWICE during play they blew the horn to stop play, only to be wrong both times. I dont know the details of one, but the other htey blew the horn to tell officials it was a 'one and one' but they were wrong because it was a player control offensive fould.

Not a fan of having students run the clocks. Many places I think have guys who have done it for Y E A R S! I think it is just their way of staying involved, oh and getting in free!
 
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