2023 HS Season

Brambleberry

Active member
I’d say top 10-15ish in the county/Open
Esteves Ed’s
Patterson Moe
Wheatley Walnut
Meyer X
Brown Creek
Walsh Sycamore
Samuels Elder
Brown Iggy
Woolbert Jackson
Pickem for the 10th spot
So you're talking about across the whole state including guys from Cleveland. Interesting...
 

Falcon11

Active member
Just makes Ohio club teams even less relevant.
Not sure I agree with everyone else here. Outside of Attack, Ohio club teams don't rely on a bunch of guys from one school as much.

And just spitballing here, but let's take this year's 18-1 team at CA. If you take Schwallie away, does that team get significantly worse if you replace him with Brandon Wong from the 18-2 team? You'd still have Downs to play the occasional pin hitter if needed.

Last year, the 18-1s could have been just as competitive (if not more so) with Albers at OH2 instead of Tooman. Or Buis at OH2. Also could have had JJ run a 5-1 and not had Carmosino on that team and still been good.

I don't think this hurts as much as everyone thinks it will at the top - and hopefully as you go down the line to 2s, 3s and 4s teams this rule will allow for more kids from "outsider" or new programs to get a shot.

And if any other clubs want to take the Vanguard route and recruit from a much wider geographical area, you have to worry even less about this rule.

I will say that I don't love what Vanguard has done recently. Seems they've sacrificed development for national relevance. And development used to be what Vanguard did really well.
 

Falcon11

Active member
To add on, the change from 3 kids from a school to 4 for BVB happened because there were so few HS teams in the state.

If what we're being told is true, we're about to have a lot more kids playing - so it's a decent time to switch back to 3 per school. Where this still could be an issue is somewhere like SE Ohio where you may have a much smaller number of schools with BVB.
 

Coach #1

Active member
You may have more kids playing in HS but that will not translate immediately into club players. Might be 4-5 years that’s my biggest concern.
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Not sure I agree with everyone else here. Outside of Attack, Ohio club teams don't rely on a bunch of guys from one school as much.

And just spitballing here, but let's take this year's 18-1 team at CA. If you take Schwallie away, does that team get significantly worse if you replace him with Brandon Wong from the 18-2 team? You'd still have Downs to play the occasional pin hitter if needed.

Last year, the 18-1s could have been just as competitive (if not more so) with Albers at OH2 instead of Tooman. Or Buis at OH2. Also could have had JJ run a 5-1 and not had Carmosino on that team and still been good.

I don't think this hurts as much as everyone thinks it will at the top - and hopefully as you go down the line to 2s, 3s and 4s teams this rule will allow for more kids from "outsider" or new programs to get a shot.

And if any other clubs want to take the Vanguard route and recruit from a much wider geographical area, you have to worry even less about this rule.

I will say that I don't love what Vanguard has done recently. Seems they've sacrificed development for national relevance. And development used to be what Vanguard did really well.
The bolded part is what I'm afraid of club becoming. In Ohio, at least, I don't think most kids playing club are in it for that sort of thing. I think a lot use it as a means to get better and develop for their high school teams and because they simply love playing. Of course, that doesn't mean they mind losing while playing club, but I think they way it is here, kids want to compete and give their all more for their high school team and the teammates/friends they're spending a lot of time with at school, after school, at practice, on the bus, etc. There's something to be said for school pride. There's only going to be a small percentage of club players who go on to do big things at the D1/D2 level and most guys are going to stop playing after high school; clubs/directors have to realize that.
 

VBFAN24

Active member
The bolded part is what I'm afraid of club becoming. In Ohio, at least, I don't think most kids playing club are in it for that sort of thing. I think a lot use it as a means to get better and develop for their high school teams and because they simply love playing. Of course, that doesn't mean they mind losing while playing club, but I think they way it is here, kids want to compete and give their all more for their high school team and the teammates/friends they're spending a lot of time with at school, after school, at practice, on the bus, etc. There's something to be said for school pride. There's only going to be a small percentage of club players who go on to do big things at the D1/D2 level and most guys are going to stop playing after high school; clubs/directors have to realize that.
I Agree with your statement but shouldnt we be striving to compete on a nationallevel? Until an emphasis is placed on clubs being more important than high school, we will continue see Ohio clubs finishing in the lower tier of open. While I don't necessarily like Vanguard's approach, they are the only club that has competed against the better clubs on a consistent basis.
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
I Agree with your statement but shouldnt we be striving to compete on a nationallevel? Until an emphasis is placed on clubs being more important than high school, we will continue see Ohio clubs finishing in the lower tier of open. While I don't necessarily like Vanguard's approach, they are the only club that has competed against the better clubs on a consistent basis.
Sure, if that’s what your goal is. But, in my opinion, goals for coaches, club directors, athletic directors, etc. should be to get kids to love the game and to grow the game from the lowest level possible all the way to 18s/Varsity. What do club directors get out of placing high in Open? An ego massage? If the majority of your clientele’s focus is on developing as a player and getting better for their high school team, cater to all of them as best as you can.

And, I’m sorry, but I can’t agree that club is “more important” than high school. It is if you wanna get recruited and try to play at the next level, but pay to play crap has gotten out of hand with prices across multiple sports, plus the majority of high school age athletes aren’t going to play in college. So if we start telling kids that club, AAU, select, etc. are more important, we’re completely disregarding kids, sometimes still very talented kids, who play for the love of the game, their team and school pride and don’t want to go on to play in college. And by telling them that, sport “specialization” gets worse and we’re essentially discouraging kids from being multi-sport athletes. Now, I think it’s important to let kids know that if they want to be good at something, they have to work at it and club can definitely help with that, but I’m not on board with having kids put all their eggs into one basket.
 

Outworker

Member
Not sure I agree with everyone else here. Outside of Attack, Ohio club teams don't rely on a bunch of guys from one school as much.

And just spitballing here, but let's take this year's 18-1 team at CA. If you take Schwallie away, does that team get significantly worse if you replace him with Brandon Wong from the 18-2 team? You'd still have Downs to play the occasional pin hitter if needed.

Last year, the 18-1s could have been just as competitive (if not more so) with Albers at OH2 instead of Tooman. Or Buis at OH2. Also could have had JJ run a 5-1 and not had Carmosino on that team and still been good.

I don't think this hurts as much as everyone thinks it will at the top - and hopefully as you go down the line to 2s, 3s and 4s teams this rule will allow for more kids from "outsider" or new programs to get a shot.

And if any other clubs want to take the Vanguard route and recruit from a much wider geographical area, you have to worry even less about this rule.

I will say that I don't love what Vanguard has done recently. Seems they've sacrificed development for national relevance. And development used to be what Vanguard did really well.
Don't be fooled, having good players is an absolute must, however there is heavy training and development involved with beating the top teams in the country consistently.
 
The bolded part is what I'm afraid of club becoming. In Ohio, at least, I don't think most kids playing club are in it for that sort of thing. I think a lot use it as a means to get better and develop for their high school teams and because they simply love playing. Of course, that doesn't mean they mind losing while playing club, but I think they way it is here, kids want to compete and give their all more for their high school team and the teammates/friends they're spending a lot of time with at school, after school, at practice, on the bus, etc. There's something to be said for school pride. There's only going to be a small percentage of club players who go on to do big things at the D1/D2 level and most guys are going to stop playing after high school; clubs/directors have to realize that.
Completely agree, and at least at Attack, the culture seems to be growing the game and developing players in the area to be the best it can be (even if that typically ends up showing more so in school play than club).

And like you said, at least in Cincinnati it's difficult for our guys to get recruited at the highest level but hopefully that could be subject to change with Thomas Moore going D2 and their coaches having roots in the area. This, in turn, also adds to the emphasis of having high school being prioritized over club season.
 

VBFAN24

Active member
Sure, if that’s what your goal is. But, in my opinion, goals for coaches, club directors, athletic directors, etc. should be to get kids to love the game and to grow the game from the lowest level possible all the way to 18s/Varsity. What do club directors get out of placing high in Open? An ego massage? If the majority of your clientele’s focus is on developing as a player and getting better for their high school team, cater to all of them as best as you can.

And, I’m sorry, but I can’t agree that club is “more important” than high school. It is if you wanna get recruited and try to play at the next level, but pay to play crap has gotten out of hand with prices across multiple sports, plus the majority of high school age athletes aren’t going to play in college. So if we start telling kids that club, AAU, select, etc. are more important, we’re completely disregarding kids, sometimes still very talented kids, who play for the love of the game, their team and school pride and don’t want to go on to play in college. And by telling them that, sport “specialization” gets worse and we’re essentially discouraging kids from being multi-sport athletes. Now, I think it’s important to let kids know that if they want to be good at something, they have to work at it and club can definitely help with that, but I’m not on board with having kids put all their eggs into one basket.
I agree with some of what you are saying but the "specialization" of the sport has already happened. At Cincinnati Attack, I am not sure the 17s or 18s had a single kid on their black teams that played other sports. These kids are there to get better, to compete against the best in the country. I also don't get your argument of "disregarding kids", club teams offer different levels of teams. I think having nationally competitive teams and D1 athletes only pushes the interest for high school. Do u think girls high school volleyball would be so popular in Cincinnati if they wasn't producing D1 players from every school and local clubs competing on a national stage? Maybe I am in the minority on this opinion?
 

Coach #1

Active member
Any D1 comparison with girls volleyball is a waste of time. Zero mens volleyball players get a full ride with only 4.5 scholarships available compared to 13-14 in girls.
Most guys that get recruited D1 get very little money for athletics/volleyball. Most comes from grants and academics. (This is from my personal experience and helping other athletes)
Yes, most 17/18’s decide that there best sport is volleyball/football etc. then stick to it. How many Jr/Sr even play multi sports. I’d guess very few
Only exception is future professional players in their sport.
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Any D1 comparison with girls volleyball is a waste of time. Zero mens volleyball players get a full ride with only 4.5 scholarships available compared to 13-14 in girls.
Most guys that get recruited D1 get very little money for athletics/volleyball. Most comes from grants and academics. (This is from my personal experience and helping other athletes)
Yes, most 17/18’s decide that there best sport is volleyball/football etc. then stick to it. How many Jr/Sr even play multi sports. I’d guess very few
Only exception is future professional players in their sport.
It seems that boys volleyball players often don’t play anything else which is peculiar. But there’s plenty of crossover between kids that play football, basketball and baseball. I just don’t want to see volleyball go the way of soccer and have the “it’s this or that, not both” mentality.
 

Brambleberry

Active member
This is just my opinion, but volleyball requires such different physical demands than other sports. The one with the most overlap would be basketball. The issue is that basketball has become the sport that athletes are being told they MUST play year round to be successful in so many kids are being pressured into making that choice early in high school
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
This is just my opinion, but volleyball requires such different physical demands than other sports. The one with the most overlap would be basketball. The issue is that basketball has become the sport that athletes are being told they MUST play year round to be successful in so many kids are being pressured into making that choice early in high school
Soccer and basketball, probably baseball to some degree as well.
 

Brambleberry

Active member
Soccer?? I don't see that one. Baseball would have a correlation with the throwing motion and using the core muscles to generate power while swinging. However, boys high school baseball and volleyball are in the same Spring season in Ohio.
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Soccer?? I don't see that one. Baseball would have a correlation with the throwing motion and using the core muscles to generate power while swinging. However, boys high school baseball and volleyball are in the same Spring season in Ohio.
Sorry, didn't mean in terms of physical overlap. Meant in regards to becoming sports that athletes are being told they MUST play year round to be successful in
 

Falcon11

Active member
Don't be fooled, having good players is an absolute must, however there is heavy training and development involved with beating the top teams in the country consistently.
I didn't mean to say there isn't any development happening, I meant more in regard to the Columbus area kids being developed. Vanguard used to compete at a high level with Cbus kids - maybe not as high as they finish now, but still good. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just different than they used to be. This year's 18-1s had what, two Cbus kids? Tackett and Bennison is all I can think of. Bowler from NEO, Tucker and Culpepper from Dayton, Patterson from Cincy, the two PA kids, Louthain from Indy... And then Woolbert from NEO as well at Nationals.
 

Falcon11

Active member
Soccer?? I don't see that one. Baseball would have a correlation with the throwing motion and using the core muscles to generate power while swinging. However, boys high school baseball and volleyball are in the same Spring season in Ohio.
Soccer kids seem to do really well with volleyball, actually, especially goal keeper types. I think it might have to do with judging the ball in three dimensional space at high speeds? Just spitballing.
 

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Season dates released by the OHSAA. Schools with newer or brand new teams look like they could potentially run into problems with basketball, especially if new programs are trying to get basketball guys to play. Basketball regional tournament is March 6-11 and the state tournament is March 17-19. Looking at how other sports overlap with one another, somewhat similar to football into basketball. Only real change so far and it's basically that everything got pushed up a week,
1660015045877.png
 
It would be cool if a D2 team held something similar to the Centerville Elite 8, but it’s just the top D2 team from each region, so it mirrors the playoffs. Of course I have no clue how playoffs will work under OHSAA laws, but it would’ve been a cool idea.
 
Last edited:

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
It would be cool if a D2 team held something similar to the Centerville Elite 8, but it’s just the top D2 team from each region, so it mirrors the playoffs. Of course I have no clue how playoffs will work under OHSAA laws, but it would’ve been a cool idea.
Agree. I think this could also have more parity year over year than D1 where there are always, at least, 4 of the same teams competing.
 

Volleyball4Life

New member
I’d say top 10-15ish in Open
Esteves Ed’s
Patterson Moe
Wheatley Walnut
Meyer X
Brown Creek
Walsh Sycamore
Samuels Elder
Brown Iggy
Woolbert Jackson
Pickem for the 10th spot
Brown from Creek? Really? He's a nice kid, but have you seen him play? He most likely wouldn't make a 2s team at Attack or Vanguard. He's simply not that strong of a player. The only reason he got recognized last year at the regional and state level from the West region was because the Centerville setter was hurt for almost half the year. I would put three other kids in that squad: Tombragel from Walnut, Rings from Centerville and Monin from Carroll. A friend of mine close to the Centerville program said that the Rings kid was on pace for almost 800 assists last year before he missed 10+ games because of injury. And the kid from Walnut can flat-out play as can the middle from Carroll.
 
Last edited:

MyNameIsDoug?

Well-known member
Brown from Creek? Really? He's a nice kid, but have you seen him play? He most likely wouldn't make a 2s team at Attack or Vanguard. He's simply not that strong of a player. The only reason he got recognized last year at the regional and state level from the West region was because the Centerville setter was hurt for almost half the year. I would put three other kids in that squad: Tombragel from Walnut, Rings from Centerville and Monin from Carroll. A friend of mine close to the Centerville program said that the Rings kid was on pace for almost 800 assists last year before he missed 10+ games because of injury. And the kid from Walnut can flat-out play as can the middle from Carroll.
Little harsh on a high school kid maybe? Lol
 
I’m in college and obviously can’t follow the sport in person this season, so I’m trying to find ways to watch. I know X and Elder have broadcast teams for home matches (which is awesome), I think Bradley and Kilbourne stream on YouTube. I know NFHS covers a lot of East region schools. Anything I’m missing?
 

Falcon11

Active member
I’m in college and obviously can’t follow the sport in person this season, so I’m trying to find ways to watch. I know X and Elder have broadcast teams for home matches (which is awesome), I think Bradley and Kilbourne stream on YouTube. I know NFHS covers a lot of East region schools. Anything I’m missing?
I think there are probably more on NFHS as well. A lot of schools bought in during covid. I believe Moeller occasionally streams, but not free if I remember correctly.
 
I think there are probably more on NFHS as well. A lot of schools bought in during covid. I believe Moeller occasionally streams, but not free if I remember correctly.
Yeah it’s like 10 a month but well worth it in my eyes. I talked to Ignatius’ coach and he told me they stream all home and away matches too. Also looked on YouTube and looks like Milford, Stow-Munroe Falls, and Carroll all stream home matches. So really shouldn’t be any shortage of volleyball to watch.
 
Ok so here’s a question. Who is the GOAT head coach as of right now? I don’t think anyone would dispute Craig Erford (6-1 in state champs) at the D2 level, but what about D1? I would probably have Greg Ulland just because of how dominant his teams were in a relatively short span, but there’s something to be said about Tierney’s longevity. Ferris should also probably be in the conversation. And to add to that, where does Lee Meyer rank if Moeller hypothetically threepeats his first three seasons?
 

TheDude

Well-known member
Ok so here’s a question. Who is the GOAT head coach as of right now? I don’t think anyone would dispute Craig Erford (6-1 in state champs) at the D2 level, but what about D1? I would probably have Greg Ulland just because of how dominant his teams were in a relatively short span, but there’s something to be said about Tierney’s longevity. Ferris should also probably be in the conversation. And to add to that, where does Lee Meyer rank if Moeller hypothetically threepeats his first three seasons?
I think this is a tough argument since people are not going to recall back to the side out scoring coaching greats as well. The likes of Reynolds (Centerville), Silbernagel (Elder), Brinkmann (Moeller) and McClain (Lebanon). All of which have 2 titles to their name as a head coach.

But if you are referring to the rally scoring age, those names are definitely up there. I would include Monty (Centerville) based on what he did with that program and his success running Air City before he retired. Webb (Darby) had a great career and clearly they have missed him since he has left. He still has great success coaching at Vanguard.

Anymore, I would argue that the entire coaching staff is most important for a program. Sure, the Ullands, Tierneys and Ferris' of the world have a great reputation for success, but without the development from the early ages, these guys would not be able to fully do what they do at the varsity level.
 
.
Top