2022 Cleveland Browns Thread

HTFF - You are way off base!!!! You can question Baker’s qb ability but to say he makes “stupid commercials” is way off. Baker’s commercials are better than any other athletes commercials out there right now. The kid can act and his comedic timing is quite impressive. Baker has a chance to be the next Burt Reynolds. I could see him in a remake of Smokey & the Bandit or a re-re-make of the Longest Yard well before seeing Mayfield as a starting Super Bowl qb.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
HTFF - You are way off base!!!! You can question Baker’s qb ability but to say he makes “stupid commercials” is way off. Baker’s commercials are better than any other athletes commercials out there right now. The kid can act and his comedic timing is quite impressive. Baker has a chance to be the next Burt Reynolds. I could see him in a remake of Smokey & the Bandit or a re-re-make of the Longest Yard well before seeing Mayfield as a starting Super Bowl qb.
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He’s the best if the worst. He’s bad The rest are very bad. Smokey and the Bandit is a pretty low bar. I believe the critics summed it up as a simple childish movie ….. an apt role for BM…..
 
Rookie record for TD passes, 26-8 ratio, 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years ago.

He has the talent to lead this offense when healthy. This offense doesnt demand a Rodgers or Brady. Pound the rock, be efficient in the passing game. I believe he was leading the NFL in completion percentage before the injury.
Orin Swift said:
Capable of being a middle of the pack QB, yes.
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WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
HTFF - You are way off base!!!! You can question Baker’s qb ability but to say he makes “stupid commercials” is way off. Baker’s commercials are better than any other athletes commercials out there right now. The kid can act and his comedic timing is quite impressive. Baker has a chance to be the next Burt Reynolds. I could see him in a remake of Smokey & the Bandit or a re-re-make of the Longest Yard well before seeing Mayfield as a starting Super Bowl qb.
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Are you an actual real person?
 
I think that one of the big arguments about Baker from Browns fans is the inability to lead his team from behind or maintain a slim lead late in the game. Other than the game in Cincinnati where he threw to Peoples-Jones at the end, he has shown a tendency to not play " smart" football, getting intercepted at crucial moments, taking a sack when he should throw the ball away, and getting too " psyched" to play within himself. In that, he has failed to mature. He is at his best at the start of the game, but tapers off in effectiveness as the game progresses. If he wants to be considered as an elite qb and make top money, he must show his best in the 4th qtr.
 
y2h said:
Rookie record for TD passes, 26-8 ratio, 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years ago.

He has the talent to lead this offense when healthy. This offense doesnt demand a Rodgers or Brady. Pound the rock, be efficient in the passing game. I believe he was leading the NFL in completion percentage before the injury.
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He has not improved at all in his 4 years in the NFL other than maybe his interceptions, when he’s healthy. Look at last year and his rookie year, there’s almost no difference. He has a career 61.6% completion percentage. For 2021 that would be good for 28th best in the NFL. His best year, completion percentage wise, was his rookie year and that would have sky rocketed him all the way to 25th in 2021.

But you hang your hat on a rookie record (since been broken) that he hasn’t improved on since and 1 playoff win.
 
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Orin Swift said:
He has not improved at all in his 4 years in the NFL other than maybe his interceptions, when he’s healthy. Look at last year and his rookie year, there’s almost no difference. He has a career 61.6% completion percentage. For 2021 that would be good for 28th best in the NFL. His best year, completion percentage wise, was his rookie year and that would have sky rocketed him all the way to 25th in 2021.

But you hang your hat on a rookie record (since been broken) that he hasn’t improved on since and 1 playoff win.
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I will. I'm not going to be a loon and say eh get rid of him, let's bring in yet another rookie and set the franchise back.

Rodgers, Wilson etc arent coming here. A journeyman retread? Just spinning your wheels.

I'll stick with the guy who has shown the ability to run the offense, that rallies the locker room.

But hang your hat on adding yet another name to the jersey in a quixotic quest for the fantasy QB.
 
y2h said:
I will. I'm not going to be a loon and say eh get rid of him, let's bring in yet another rookie and set the franchise back.

Rodgers, Wilson etc arent coming here. A journeyman retread? Just spinning your wheels.

I'll stick with the guy who has shown the ability to run the offense, that rallies the locker room.

But hang your hat on adding yet another name to the jersey in a quixotic quest for the fantasy QB.
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I’ll hang my hat on Joe Burrow being better 1.5 years in than Baker will be at any point in his career. Enjoy committing 20%+ of the Browns cap space to a middle of the road QB/game manager.

Why are you moving goal posts though? The discussion wasn’t if you’re okay with Mayfield being the QB going forward. The dicussion was if he was a good, bad or middle of the pack. And he certainly isn’t efficient like you claimed.
 
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Orin Swift said:
He has not improved at all in his 4 years in the NFL other than maybe his interceptions, when he’s healthy. Look at last year and his rookie year, there’s almost no difference. He has a career 61.6% completion percentage. For 2021 that would be good for 28th best in the NFL. His best year, completion percentage wise, was his rookie year and that would have sky rocketed him all the way to 25th in 2021.

But you hang your hat on a rookie record (since been broken) that he hasn’t improved on since and 1 playoff win.
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In 2020, fully healthy, Mayfield was 10th in QBR in the league. Thats in the top third of the NFL, if you have math challenges. He is not elite, but he can be above average when healthy, which is all the Browns need.
 
wolves82 said:
In 2020, fully healthy, Mayfield was 10th in QBR in the league. Thats in the top third of the NFL, if you have math challenges. He is not elite, but he can be above average when healthy, which is all the Browns need.
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Every other year of his career he has finished 23rd, 19th and 27th. Where do those rank in the NFL? Is that called an outlier? Do mathematicians usually throw out the larger sample size and keep the smaller one? Sorry, I struggle with math and math related terms.
 
Baker has limited tools/ability … he needs help to be good … his career has had a lot of ups and downs … let’s look at his 4 years
1st year … played well … for a rookie I would call it a reasonably good season
2nd … played poor … but the team was a zoo
3rd …. played reasonably well … but his team was functioning at a high level
4th … played poor … but I do think the injury played a part in that

so what does this mean ? I never expect him to be elite … but I do feel he can be a winning QB … with help … and at the right price …. to me this is the key … he needs to play next year and have a reasonably good year, make the playoffs, and shut down some of the criticism … then take a reasonable contract extension …. anything less and the Browns need to move on.
 
Orin Swift said:
I’ll hang my hat on Joe Burrow being better 1.5 years in than Baker will be at any point in his career. Enjoy committing 20%+ of the Browns cap space to a middle of the road QB/game manager.

Why are you moving goal posts though? The discussion wasn’t if you’re okay with Mayfield being the QB going forward. The dicussion was if he was a good, bad or middle of the pack. And he certainly isn’t efficient like you claimed.
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Joe Burrow is irrelevant to the discussion of Browns QB play. Hes not going to be suiting up for the Browns anytime soon so who cares.

Any decent QB is going to eat up the cap. What's the alternative?

Kenny Pickett will save us ?
 
y2h said:
Joe Burrow is irrelevant to the discussion of Browns QB play. Hes not going to be suiting up for the Browns anytime soon so who cares.

Any decent QB is going to eat up the cap. What's the alternative?

Kenny Pickett will save us ?
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The key is when they start eating up the cap.
Mahomes isnt until 2022 or 2023.

BUrrow has awhile. He can sign a monster deal, but the big $$ wouldnt be cap hits until 2026 or later.

Key is win when the QBs are young, on their rookie deal OR the beginning of their second with the big cap numbers hitting after a couple of seasons.


Doesnt matter though. Cleveland always does an excellent job at managing the cap and securing their franchise QB's for the long haul. The fans should have the utmost confidence in the front office and ownership to do the job right.
 
y2h said:
Joe Burrow is irrelevant to the discussion of Browns QB play. Hes not going to be suiting up for the Browns anytime soon so who cares.

Any decent QB is going to eat up the cap. What's the alternative?

Kenny Pickett will save us ?
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I’m hanging my hat on my QB, not a soon to be vastly overpaid game manager.

Winston can be be 75% of Baker for 20% of the cost. Bridgewater gives you 75% of Baker for half the cost. I’d much rather pay Winston/Bridgewater and Godwin in FA for the same price as Baker by himself.

Pickett gets the Browns the exact same season as Baker would with a couple of losses due to pissing down his leg in close, late game situations.

Enjoy NFL purgatory. What weird aspirations to have for your favorite team.
 
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Orin Swift said:
I’m hanging my hat on my QB, not a soon to be vastly overpaid game manager.

Winston can be be 75% of Baker for 20% of the cost. Bridgewater gives you 75% of Baker for half the cost. I’d much rather pay Winston/Bridgewater and Godwin in FA for the same price as Baker by himself.

Pickett gets the Browns the exact same season as Baker would with a couple of losses due to pissing down his leg in close, late game situations.

Enjoy NFL purgatory. What weird aspirations to have for your favorite team.
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Winston and Bridgewater? ? I'll give you Winston's 30 INT season was epic ?

Going with a rookie next year would be a disaster. Might as well trade Garrett and Chubb and start over.
 
y2h said:
Winston and Bridgewater? ? I'll give you Winston's 30 INT season was epic ?

Going with a rookie next year would be a disaster. Might as well trade Garrett and Chubb and start over.
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Winston and Bridgewater and someone like Godwin for the same price as Baker by himself is 100% a better option than Baker at $40m, telling yourself otherwise is just being a homer. But again, none of this changes my original point: he’s capable of being mediocre. That won’t win you a super bowl.

Gonna get the same results with Baker. Unlikely in the playoffs, best case win the wild card lose in the divisional.
 
Argue about Baker all you want. The system is built for him. Maybe Pickett is a developmental project. I don't know and I don't care. There are definitely better QBs than either of them. But if not for the Browns' 32nd ranked special teams then the Bengals aren't in the Super Bowl. And they are 32nd by a large margin. Something like three times the expected point value lost compared to #31. But it's Cleveland, so clearly we gotta argue about Mayfield's arm not magically being healed in a day and if he's got the moxie. Mahomes couldn't pull the Browns over the line with one phase of the game not even having the competence of a bad MAC team.
 
Orin Swift said:
Every other year of his career he has finished 23rd, 19th and 27th. Where do those rank in the NFL? Is that called an outlier? Do mathematicians usually throw out the larger sample size and keep the smaller one? Sorry, I struggle with math and math related terms.
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Correct, under Hue & Kitchens he was not great, and learning. Young QBs can improve, right? 2020 he showed great improvement (10th best QB in NFL) and clearly was a good fit for Stefanski's offense. Pre-injury 2021 he was leading the NFL in completion percentage. The terrible 2021 is almost 100% attributable to injuries. He deserves another year, and I suspect his 2022 he will be much like 2020. Not elite, but above average, and a big winner. Judging him on 2021 is just not reasonable.
 
wolves82 said:
Correct, under Hue & Kitchens he was not great, and learning. Young QBs can improve, right? 2020 he showed great improvement (10th best QB in NFL) and clearly was a good fit for Stefanski's offense. Pre-injury 2021 he was leading the NFL in completion percentage. The terrible 2021 is almost 100% attributable to injuries. He deserves another year, and I suspect his 2022 he will be much like 2020. Not elite, but above average, and a big winner. Judging him on 2021 is just not reasonable.
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Best.
Post.
Ever.

If he wasnt injured, they are likely the ones sitting in the bengals spot right now. I dont know if his injury is bad enough to garner him the comeback player of the year next season, but his play will show he is a top flight QB and bring them back to the playoffs.
 
Betting odds have to do with somebody's guess as to what will bring in even money on both sides of a bet. It's gauging the bettors and nothing else.

As for Baker, the real question is who you're going to bring in that's any better. Rodgers and Wilson are not coming to Cleveland and the rookie class of QB's is not good. No one else through trade or free agency is any better than Mayfield. As such the only viable option is to ride it out and see how he does this year without the injuries.
 
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clarkgriswold said:
Betting odds have to do with somebody's guess as to what will bring in even money on both sides of a bet. It's gauging the bettors and nothing else.

As for Baker, the real question is who you're going to bring in that's any better. Rodgers and Wilson are not coming to Cleveland and the rookie class of QB's is not good. No one else through trade or free agency is any better than Mayfield. As such the only viable option is to ride it out and see how he does this year. Do I like it? Hell no, but that's the reality of the situation.
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I'll take a healthy Baker, no problem with that.

My biggest concern is what receivers want to come here to play in this system?
 
OldSoulon said:
I'll take a healthy Baker, no problem with that.

My biggest concern is what receivers want to come here to play in this system?
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Spot on - WR is the biggest problem on the roster. The answer is that guys like Chase, Tyreek, Davante Adams and Kupp aren't coming. You have to do what the Bengals did and draft them, Higgins one year and Chase the next. First round WR is a must - Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
 
OldSoulon said:
I'll take a healthy Baker, no problem with that.

My biggest concern is what receivers want to come here to play in this system?
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wolves82 said:
Spot on - WR is the biggest problem on the roster. The answer is that guys like Chase, Tyreek, Davante Adams and Kupp aren't coming. You have to do what the Bengals did and draft them, Higgins one year and Chase the next. First round WR is a must - Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
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The OBJ situation certainly won't help so the draft is certainly the most viable option.
 
thavoice said:
Best.
Post.
Ever.

If he wasnt injured, they are likely the ones sitting in the bengals spot right now. I dont know if his injury is bad enough to garner him the comeback player of the year next season, but his play will show he is a top flight QB and bring them back to the playoffs.
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HeII, if not for the idiotic NFL COVID testing guidelines, the Browns very well could have won the division.

Even with Mayfield's injuries.
 
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The Browns went to 3 AFC title games in 4 years with a solid but not elite QB...and 2 of those years shouldve ended in the SB through no fault of his. They built the team with a solid running game and defense. Sound familiar?
 
y2h - Yes, the Browns went to the AFC Championship game in 1986,87 and 89 losing to the Broncos via The Drive, The Fumble and a blowout - correct me if I'm wrong I'm going of off memory on something that happen 30+ years ago.

The game has changed drastically over the last 30 years. No huddle offense is common, different personnel packages depending on down/distance, rules changes that all favor the offense, you can not hit a qb in today's game, these are just off the top of my head. Every game in this years playoffs excluding the KC-Pit and TB-Phi game were close and were one score games late in the 4th qrt. You simply need far more than a functional/game manager to win 3 games & the Super Bowl in the NFL Playoffs.
 
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