2004 Troy Regional v. 2024 Troy Regional

EuclidandViren

Well-known member
Comparing the two best Troy Regional races IMO from Troy.

2004 Team Results
1 Middletown 1 14 15 21 35 66 87 = 86
2 Cincinnati LaSalle 10 16 18 19 33 63 81 = 96
3 Beavercreek 4 8 12 31 42 64 78 = 97
4 Cincinnati St. Xavier 5 6 25 27 43 44 72 = 106

2004 Individual Qualifiers
1 1 15:34 393 Jeff See 12 Middletown
2 2 15:36 395 Levi Fox 12 Troy
3 3 16:00 326 Luke Beuerlein 12 Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller
4 4 16:12 317 Nik Schweikert 12 Beavercreek
5 16:21 439 Taylor Candella 12 West Chester Lakota West
6 5 16:25 349 Rick King 12 Cincinnati St. Xavier
7 16:26 430 Tommy Morgan 11 Kings Mills Kings
8 6 16:27 348 Randy King 12 Cincinnati St. Xavier
9 16:31 438 Chad Balyo 11 Springboro
10 16:31 427 Michael Perry 10 Cincinnati Winton Woods
11 16:33 431 Matt Winebar 12 Kings Mills Kings
12 7 16:34 370 Matthew Peters 12 Liberty Twp. Lakota East
13 8 16:34 316 Mark Rollyson 12 Beavercreek
14 16:35 428 Matt Silveira 12 Fairborn
15 9 16:36 356 Jules Rosen 12 Cincinnati Sycamore
16 10 16:40 341 Daniel Heister 12 Cincinnati LaSalle
 
Last edited:
 
2004 State Meet Results
1 Jeff See 12 Middletown 15:25.00 1
2 Levi Fox 12 Troy 15:32.00 --
3 Luke Beuerlein 12 Cin. Arc. Moeller 15:34.00 --
4 Ben Engelhardt 11 Westerville North 15:42.00 --
5 Nik Schweikert 12 Beavercreek 15:51.00 2
6 Darren Flickinger 11 Defiance 15:54.00 --
7 Chris Thurber 12 Worth. Thomas Worthington 15:56.00 --
8 Tony Jordanek 12 Lexington 15:58.00 --
9 Joe Parker 12 Reynoldsburg 16:03.00 3
10 Taylor Candella 12 West Chester Lakota West 16:04.00 --
11 Jeremy Trein 12 Reynoldsburg 16:08.00 4
12 Tommy Morgan 11 Kings Mills Kings 16:09.00 --
13 Chad Balyo 11 Springboro 16:10.00 --
14 Ken Sullivan 11 Cle. St. Ignatius 16:11.00 --
15 Zak Wilburn 12 Amherst Steele 16:13.00 --
16 Justin Meeson 12 Lakewood 16:17.00 --
17 Verrelle Taylor 12 Copley 16:18.00 --
18 Michael Perry 10 Cincinnati Winton Woods 16:19.00 --
19 Shamus Eaton 12 Uniontown Lake 16:19.00 5
20 Rick King 12 Cincinnati St. Xavier 16:20.00 6
21 Scott Meyers 11 Beavercreek 16:22.00 7
22 Matthew Peters 12 Liberty Twp. Lakota E 16:22.00 --
23 Matt Lemon 10 Tol. St. John's Jesuit 16:23.00 8
24 Ryan Schilling 12 Gahanna Lincoln 16:24.00 9
25 Zach Graham 12 Tol. St. Francis Desales 16:26.00 10

State Team Results
1 Middletown 113 1 14 25 27 46 88 92
Total Time: 1:22:41 Average: 16:32.20 1-5 Split: 1:45
2 Cincinnati LaSalle 144 15 18 22 38 51 58 103
Total Time: 1:24:05 Average: 16:49.00 1-5 Split: 42
3 Cincinnati St. Xavier 153 6 16 37 41 53 63 76
Total Time: 1:24:14 Average: 16:50.80 1-5 Split: 58
4 Beavercreek 154 2 7 21 57 67 70 104
Total Time: 1:23:45 Average: 16:45.00 1-5 Split: 1:39
 
2024 Individual Results

1 Landon Kimmel Tippecanoe 14:58.88 1
2 Alex Bruns St. Xavier 15:02.97 1
3 Kasem Kaheal Centerville 15:23.18 1
4 Noah Burgh Piqua 15:25.77 1
5 Jackson Davis Beavercreek 15:27.39 1
6 Caden Winship Mason 15:29.52 1
7 Samuel Darmanie Springboro 15:31.42 1
8 Ryne Reynolds Little Miami 15:31.78 1
9 Ronan Wolfer Loveland 15:42.66 1
10 Michael Zegarski Little Miami 15:46.80 1
11 Daniel Emmert Centerville 15:50.41 1
12 Dallin Przybyla Beavercreek 15:53.81 1
13 Dom Ellis St. Xavier 15:53.90 1
14 Dominic Lopez Northmont 15:54.26 1
15 Jason Xu Mason 15:57.72 1
16 Yohannes Birhane Wayne 15:58.18 1
17 Aiden Allen Beavercreek 15:59.93 1
18 Luke Berkebile Mason 16:00.27 1
19 Ian Patrick Little Miami 16:01.69 1
20 Everett Muhlenkamp Tippecanoe 16:09.73 1

2024 Team Results
1 Mason 83
2 Little Miami 88
3 Centerville 94
4 St. Xavier 98
5 Beavercreek 103
 
I have been around this sport for a long time and I believe these are the two best regional races in D1 from Troy.
Same course
2024 was ideal for temperatures and wind. 65 at best and 2-5 MPH wind.
2004 was warmer in the low 70's and the wind was 10-17 MPH.

The kids are all faster. But the battle was very similar to the team scores.
 
I have been around this sport for a long time and I believe these are the two best regional races in D1 from Troy.
Same course
2024 was ideal for temperatures and wind. 65 at best and 2-5 MPH wind.
2004 was warmer in the low 70's and the wind was 10-17 MPH.

The kids are all faster. But the battle was very similar to the team scores.
Put the 2004 kids in the 2024 shoes, or vice versa, and let's see what the difference is.
 
1 observation from the 2024 results is that for the top 5 teams to have scores that low in a 17-team field, there had to have been a lot of dead weight. Those top 5 teams all got their 5th runners in before 5 of the teams got their 1st runners in.
 
1 observation from the 2024 results is that for the top 5 teams to have scores that low in a 17-team field, there had to have been a lot of dead weight. Those top 5 teams all got their 5th runners in before 5 of the teams got their 1st runners in.
Good point. There was no drama about who was moving on to state next week during that race. Huge gap from 5th to 6th.
 
Good point. There was no drama about who was moving on to state next week during that race. Huge gap from 5th to 6th.
Maybe no drama about who was moving on to state, but there should be plenty of drama on Saturday. When was the last time the D1 boys race was this wide open? 2020 was a great 2 team battle between West and X, but since then there’s been a pretty clear favorite. Not the case this season.
 
Put the 2004 kids in the 2024 shoes, or vice versa, and let's see what the difference is.
There's more of an effect in track than cross country. The only time the super shoes of today have a big effect would be if the ground is really hard, as it often is in the early season meets in late August/early September, or if it is a course in California where spikes are not allowed for HS XC and many meets have a good portion of the race on the road and/or on compact & dry soil.

More is known about training, rest, and nutrition now and that can't be overlooked.
 
There's more of an effect in track than cross country. The only time the super shoes of today have a big effect would be if the ground is really hard, as it often is in the early season meets in late August/early September, or if it is a course in California where spikes are not allowed for HS XC and many meets have a good portion of the race on the road and/or on compact & dry soil.

More is known about training, rest, and nutrition now and that can't be overlooked.
I understand that, but this year has had very little rain except for when the remnants of the hurricane came through. It's been very dry again, and that ground makes it closer to a long track race. I'm thinking shoes are helping.
 
Also, for what it’s worth, the course is similar but not quite the same as it was in 2004. In the early 2000s we started on the east end of the flood plain and ran west under the Adams Street bridge (which was a shifting sand on its best days and a grabbing, stop you in your tracks muck if there had been any rain in the week leading up to Regionals, which there always was). Now they start in front of the Adams Street bridge, go east along the flood plain, and never go under the Adams Street bridge.

Also, when did they stop allowing teams to hang banners along the bridges? That used to be one of the more fun aspects of the race along with the drama/anticipation of hearing the results announced over the loudspeaker before they were posted anywhere (now no longer possible with the onset of live results).

Pictures from the 2006 (start) and 2008 (banners) D2 Boys races.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_9113.jpeg
    IMG_9113.jpeg
    70.6 KB · Views: 112
  • 6_Original.jpeg
    6_Original.jpeg
    156.3 KB · Views: 115
Also, for what it’s worth, the course is similar but not quite the same as it was in 2004. In the early 2000s we started on the east end of the flood plain and ran west under the Adams Street bridge (which was a shifting sand on its best days and a grabbing, stop you in your tracks muck if there had been any rain in the week leading up to Regionals, which there always was). Now they start in front of the Adams Street bridge, go east along the flood plain, and never go under the Adams Street bridge.

Also, when did they stop allowing teams to hang banners along the bridges? That used to be one of the more fun aspects of the race along with the drama/anticipation of hearing the results announced over the loudspeaker before they were posted anywhere (now no longer possible with the onset of live results).

Pictures from the 2006 (start) and 2008 (banners) D2 Boys races.
… and no cheering spectators on the bridge anymore. 😡
 
You don't run under the bridge / fans at Troy anymore!? What's the point of having a race there. That was the best part. Between that, and the GCL meet no longer being at Rapid Run (and the non St. X schools now generally sucking), SW Ohio CC isn't what it used to be.
 
You don't run under the bridge / fans at Troy anymore!? What's the point of having a race there. That was the best part. Between that, and the GCL meet no longer being at Rapid Run (and the non St. X schools now generally sucking), SW Ohio CC isn't what it used to be.
How much better did it use to be? We have 5 of the top 8 teams in the state from our region. Three of them competed in at the VOA District.
It may not be as deep in the conferences but when you look at the past 5 state XC Championships the region is represented well on the podium.
 
How much better did it use to be? We have 5 of the top 8 teams in the state from our region. Three of them competed in at the VOA District.
It may not be as deep in the conferences but when you look at the past 5 state XC Championships the region is represented well on the podium.
Competitively, the SW region is as good as ever. I fully expect all five teams to show well at the state meet this week, and I'd guess we'll see more than a handful of SW faces on the individual podium.

I would agree the atmosphere at Troy ain't what it once was. Back in the good old days BM (before Mason), the GCL schools were dominant for many years, and no fan base can quit meet the intensity of a GCL fan base. It used to be great fun to walk to the start line listening to 100 Elder guys screaming "we're from price hill, we're gonna kill," and 100 St. X guys screaming "It's alright/it's ok/you're gonna work for us some day." Those rowdy fan bases seem to have disappeared a bit from the meet as the GCL has lost it's chokehold on the competition.
 
I 100% agree. That atmosphere was electric.

A couple of factors play into this scenario. Pay to enter the regional meet is fairly new. Elder and St. X would bus 1-2 busloads of JV kids yearly.
Elder's demise in the last 25 years...
Russo left LaSalle 10 years ago...
I believe Moeller was only a factor of 1 or 2 years at best. We will see what Russo can do at Moeller right now.
Taking only 4 teams from each regional expanded to 5 then 6 now back to 5 teams. Some of the excitement left because of the room for error.
 
How much better did it use to be? We have 5 of the top 8 teams in the state from our region. Three of them competed in at the VOA District.
It may not be as deep in the conferences but when you look at the past 5 state XC Championships the region is represented well on the podium.
SW OH still has great teams, best in the state, etc., etc., I'm just talking about fun things that are gone. Running toward that bridge at Troy with screaming fans is one of my favorite memories. Similar deal with the (fun) course at Rapid Run at the GCL meet being packed the whole way. I heard they don't even have separate varsity, JV, and freshman races there anymore. All three of those races were competitive and fun back in the day. Lame to pack them all together. In fairness, when X is going ~ 1 - 7 in all of those races, it's probably not quite as fun as it used to be.
 
1.) Mason 111
2.) St. Xavier 180
3.) Little Miami 183
5.) Beavercreek 190
7.) Centerville 224

1.) Kimmel/Tipp 14:33
2.) Bruns/St. X 14:47
4.) Kaheal/Centerville 15:05
6.) Winship/Mason 15:09
7.) Burgh/Piqua 15:14
8.) Darmanie/Springboro 15:15
11.) Davis/Beavercreek 15:23
14.) Emmert/Centerville 15:26
17.) Zegarski/Little Miami 15:29
19.) Lopez/Northmont 15:30
21.) Wolfer/Loveland 15:32
22.) Reynolds/Little Miami 15:32
 
Competitively, the SW region is as good as ever. I fully expect all five teams to show well at the state meet this week, and I'd guess we'll see more than a handful of SW faces on the individual podium.

I would agree the atmosphere at Troy ain't what it once was. Back in the good old days BM (before Mason), the GCL schools were dominant for many years, and no fan base can quit meet the intensity of a GCL fan base. It used to be great fun to walk to the start line listening to 100 Elder guys screaming "we're from price hill, we're gonna kill," and 100 St. X guys screaming "It's alright/it's ok/you're gonna work for us some day." Those rowdy fan bases seem to have disappeared a bit from the meet as the GCL has lost it's chokehold on the competition.
Inevitable passage of time. Demographics change, alliances change, schools change themselves. 100 years ago, Cleveland & Columbus schools were dominant in track & field. 40-60 years ago, Dayton area schools were dominant in SW Ohio. Now, neither is true anymore. Just look to college football conference changes. It never stays the same.
 
SW OH still has great teams, best in the state, etc., etc., I'm just talking about fun things that are gone. Running toward that bridge at Troy with screaming fans is one of my favorite memories. Similar deal with the (fun) course at Rapid Run at the GCL meet being packed the whole way. I heard they don't even have separate varsity, JV, and freshman races there anymore. All three of those races were competitive and fun back in the day. Lame to pack them all together. In fairness, when X is going ~ 1 - 7 in all of those races, it's probably not quite as fun as it used to be.
"I heard they don't even have separate varsity, JV, and freshman races there anymore. "
Correct. All the boys run in one race now at Christ's Church in Mason. (Wistful sigh noises.) Those races at the GCL meet at Rapid Run were friggin' awesome. So much noise echoing around the grounds, so damn many kids (and some parents) running to various points to cheer on their teammates/kids. And that last lung-busting hill to climb back to the upper field and finish line... Man, those were some good times.
 
"I heard they don't even have separate varsity, JV, and freshman races there anymore. "
Correct. All the boys run in one race now at Christ's Church in Mason. (Wistful sigh noises.) Those races at the GCL meet at Rapid Run were friggin' awesome. So much noise echoing around the grounds, so damn many kids (and some parents) running to various points to cheer on their teammates/kids. And that last lung-busting hill to climb back to the upper field and finish line... Man, those were some good times.
That’s a shame. And a little lazy. Run 9 or 10 in the varsity race if you want to sort out roster spots, but give the JV and Freshman kids something to be excited for.

I’ve never been impressed with the Moeller course. I guess it would be fun at night, but during the day, just laps around soccer fields is the best you can do?

It’s a shame those races are not competitive. Elder looked like they were getting better a few years ago but that seems to have trailed off. Moeller has had some decent teams the last three years. LaSalle is embarrassing; literally one of the worst teams in the city.
 
Inevitable passage of time. Demographics change, alliances change, schools change themselves. 100 years ago, Cleveland & Columbus schools were dominant in track & field. 40-60 years ago, Dayton area schools were dominant in SW Ohio. Now, neither is true anymore. Just look to college football conference changes. It never stays the same.
An obvious example of how schools change is in enrollment. I don't want to rehash the debate about the large schools, like Mason & St X, having advantages due to enrollment. That topic has been played ad nauseam. What Tom Rapp has done at Mason is incredible and I don't believe that any coach could move in to that situation and have success similar to Rapp's just due to enrollment. If that were the case you would see schools like Oak Hills, Fairfield, and any other with large enrollments have success.

That said, it can't be denied that there are certain luxuries that the mega schools have and the most obvious one is the size of the talent pool. Look at the top 25 schools in terms of enrollment and look where they are located. Most are in SW Ohio. The size of the schools in SW Ohio is much larger in than elsewhere in the state. The schools are designed differently and there seems to be a different philosophy in how to deal with the increased numbers. Central Ohio offers an interesting comparison. The Hilliard, Dublin, Olentangy, and Pickerington districts all have burgeoning populations and would have schools as large as some of those in SW Ohio had they not decided to build multiple buildings. The demographic change in the Cincinnati metropolitan area has a lot to do with that. There has been a fairly large migration out of the city and the inner-ring suburbs. That also has happened in Columbus but the school districts there have a different mindset. The population shift affects all sports. When was the last time that the inner city schools were relevant in athletics? Population shifts have played the largest role in those changes.
 
That’s a shame. And a little lazy. Run 9 or 10 in the varsity race if you want to sort out roster spots, but give the JV and Freshman kids something to be excited for.

I’ve never been impressed with the Moeller course. I guess it would be fun at night, but during the day, just laps around soccer fields is the best you can do?

It’s a shame those races are not competitive. Elder looked like they were getting better a few years ago but that seems to have trailed off. Moeller has had some decent teams the last three years. LaSalle is embarrassing; literally one of the worst teams in the city.
There should be four races: Freshman, JV, Open, and Varsity. This shouldn't be hard to pull off. My freshman year all four schools had really good freshman teams and that freshman race felt like the biggest event of my life at that point. It was probably the worst race I ever ran, but I learned a lot from it, and I'm not sure it would be the same being lumped in with everyone else. It's lame that unique experience is gone. Why exactly did they move it from Rapid Run? Didn't a storm really mess up the park or something? I assume it's something like that given Elder doesn't host the Fr. Rudy invite anymore.

It still surprises me how much Elder and LaSalle have fallen off. I get that Spencer and Russo are long gone, but both schools teams had real culture / tradition. I would have assumed one of their runners could have carried the torch. I don't think enrollment had cratered at either school.
 
There should be four races: Freshman, JV, Open, and Varsity. This shouldn't be hard to pull off. My freshman year all four schools had really good freshman teams and that freshman race felt like the biggest event of my life at that point. It was probably the worst race I ever ran, but I learned a lot from it, and I'm not sure it would be the same being lumped in with everyone else. It's lame that unique experience is gone. Why exactly did they move it from Rapid Run? Didn't a storm really mess up the park or something? I assume it's something like that given Elder doesn't host the Fr. Rudy invite anymore.

It still surprises me how much Elder and LaSalle have fallen off. I get that Spencer and Russo are long gone, but both schools teams had real culture / tradition. I would have assumed one of their runners could have carried the torch. I don't think enrollment had cratered at either school.
Cincinnati Parks did a major remodel of Rapid Run Park. Im sure some of the Elder guys have more insight.
 
Lots of tradition at Elder and LaSalle. Football is still great there. It may have been most unfortunate timing. Right after their coaches left, St. X not only wins state, but goes to NXN in back to back years. That’s a pretty compelling sell.
 
Lots of tradition at Elder and LaSalle. Football is still great there. It may have been most unfortunate timing. Right after their coaches left, St. X not only wins state, but goes to NXN in back to back years. That’s a pretty compelling sell.
That makes a ton of sense for kids that were already interested in distance running. At this point I assume it's similar to how X's swimming program is viewed. However, at least back when I ran, the vast majority of Elder and LaSalle runners were kids from the local Catholic grade schools that had never run before. X had plenty of kids like this too. The traditional LaSalle grade schools had more track programs than the Elder ones did, and I know Elder had (has?) a club jr high xc team that started in the mid-aughts, but I really think the bulk of their top runners were pretty green coming into high school. All the GCL schools are pretty cultish too (i.e. if your dad went to one of the schools, you probably grew up liking / wanting to go that school too).
 
Top