100,000 cases of coronavirus already in Ohio

utsherman

Well-known member
They are not the same. It’s not even close. The fact that you think the are that similar suggests you don’t understand just how different they are.
They’re clearly different, sure. I’m not comparing the vaccines themselves. I’m referring to your hesitancy to utilize one and not the other. Because flu viruses are constantly changing, the vaccine composition is reviewed each year and updated as needed based on which influenza viruses are making people sick. You’re trusting FDA and CDC approval in one case, but not the other.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
I think you're the one that's confused utsherman. You call out a bit of awkward writing as if it cancels out what can only be described as the CDC's insane list of rules for summer camp attendance. If anyone should be following the science here it's the CDC. That they fail to do so in creating their list is the problem.
I am not confused. The author of this article literally has one job. This job entails the ability to communicate via the written word without said awkwardness. IMO, this is an example of the “fear porn”, or whatever you call it, that attempts to misdirect the reader with a conveniently worded bullet point that will spark reflexive anger and disgust. I’m guessing the majority of readers don’t take the time to sift through actual CDC resource material. As it relates to summer camps, please don’t confuse recommendations with policies. Not all will operate the same. Trust me, as I have researched many considering my kids attend each summer.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
They’re clearly different, sure. I’m not comparing the vaccines themselves. I’m referring to your hesitancy to utilize one and not the other. Because flu viruses are constantly changing, the vaccine composition is reviewed each year and updated as needed based on which influenza viruses are making people sick. You’re trusting FDA and CDC approval in one case, but not the other.
There are quite a few years where the Flu vaccine has ZERO effectiveness against the particular strain that is prevalent that year.

Two of the three COVID vaccine's formats have NEVER been FDA cleared for any virus in the US, or I believe, worldwide.

That is why there is hesitancy and concern about them.

You're also mixing in FDA approval, and FDA Emergency Use Approval as if they are one and the same. They are not.

Also, the CDC does not "approve" anything. The FDA does that.
 
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lotr10

Well-known member
I am not confused. The author of this article literally has one job. This job entails the ability to communicate via the written word without said awkwardness. IMO, this is an example of the “fear porn”, or whatever you call it, that attempts to misdirect the reader with a conveniently worded bullet point that will spark reflexive anger and disgust. I’m guessing the majority of readers don’t take the time to sift through actual CDC resource material. As it relates to summer camps, please don’t confuse recommendations with policies. Not all will operate the same. Trust me, as I have researched many considering my kids attend each summer.

You're quibbling over poor wording and ignoring the insane restrictions being placed on summer camp attendees. The fact that masks and social distancing are required for almost everything except swimming and eating is the problem. Not that the writer screwed up in saying it was two masks rather then 2 layers of one mask.

I also can't believe that you're acting as if during the covid pandemic there's a practical difference between CDC recommendations and policies. Almost every organization will treat then as one and the same.

It seems to me like you're deflecting from the point of the article which is that the CDC restrictions are over the top and do not reflect the best or most current thinking on covid mitigation. People should get angry over these kinds of empty headed, chicken little recommendations from what is supposed to be one of America's premier science & medial organizations.
 

SayMyName

Well-known member
I've had Vid, why should I be vaccinated. Can you provide me studies on which is more reliable? My immune system or the vaccination. Surely there is risk associated with the vaccine. Short term we are learning everyday. What do the long term studies say? You are certainly a science guy so make sure it's scientific data.
LMAO, you understood that gibberish?
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
They’re clearly different, sure. I’m not comparing the vaccines themselves. I’m referring to your hesitancy to utilize one and not the other. Because flu viruses are constantly changing, the vaccine composition is reviewed each year and updated as needed based on which influenza viruses are making people sick. You’re trusting FDA and CDC approval in one case, but not the other.
Yeah, I know how the flu vaccine is developed. The end product is nothing like the COVID one. And we have used them for decades. I’ve had COVID so it makes no sense for me to get it. I’m low risk too, so it makes even less sense.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
There are quite a few years where the Flu vaccine has ZERO effectiveness against the particular strain that is prevalent that year.

Two of the three COVID vaccine's formats have NEVER been FDA cleared for any virus in the US, or I believe, worldwide.

That is why there is hesitancy and concern about them.

You're also mixing in FDA approval, and FDA Emergency Use Approval as if they are one and the same. They are not.

Also, the CDC does not "approve" anything. The FDA does that.
I’m not arguing effectiveness from year to year. Nor am I arguing the reasons for hesitancy. There will always be vaccine hesitancy whether FDA approves or not. Same can be said for EAU. Some will be satisfied when relevant statutory criteria are met, and others will be skeptical. I’m simply trying to understand the viewpoint from which someone is labeled a ‘sheep’ for taking a vaccine in the context of the conversation with the other poster. Probably a losing battle at this point.
 

SayMyName

Well-known member
No it's pretty spot on . Not making anything up . You will die on that hill , it's obvious which groups of people aren't getting the vaccine. Not bragging , but just point out to the mediocre people who say they are smarter than most{ smh} and judge my posts , that more people are and would be interested in what I post than they would be in what they may post. Making up what exactly? You often go into that exact mode when a bit frustrated you're wrong or someone may see that you're wrong . No evidence that conservatives men are the least apt to get the vaccine? Good one . Keep laying there with that gaping wound spewing wrongness.

Seriously, I thought you would own that as a 'Rugged" conservative, lmfao.
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utsherman

Well-known member
Yeah, I know how the flu vaccine is developed. The end product is nothing like the COVID one. And we have used them for decades. I’ve had COVID so it makes no sense for me to get it. I’m low risk too, so it makes even less sense.
So you’re not getting the vaccine. We’ve established this. You made your choice. Others will make their own as well. I just don’t get the whole “sheep” analogy. Seems lazy. But that’s just me. 🤷‍♂️
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
So you’re not getting the vaccine. We’ve established this. You made your choice. Others will make their own as well. I just don’t get the whole “sheep” analogy. Seems lazy. But that’s just me. 🤷‍♂️
Given the low level of risk, and little knowledge about the vaccine, one would have to be a sheep to elect to get it.
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
Well, there are no long term studies. That's the problem.

And the flu vaccines they produce about this time of year for the Fall Flu season are an educated guess. Many times, they are wrong.
This is what people don't know about flu vaccines - and you are 100% correct about them being an educated guess. I don't have a problem with those vaccines on safety and efficacy grounds, I have a problem with people believing they have bought a good insurance against getting the flu when they get their flu shot.

Every winter/spring the powers that be have to anticipate what flu strains will hit the US. They look at what is happening around the world and guess. I believe 5 viral strains are put into the vaccine. Some years they are 0 or 1 for 5. Some years they do better than that. But it is purely an educated guess.

I was on a Work Comp Committee at the local hospital about 20 years and a GP suggested we do a flu shot push. An internist, to my surprise, said something like, "Flu shots are one of the most worthless things we do", which kicked off an epic argument. The GP looked at me (he is my family doc) and said, "Who's side are you on in this?" I said, "Uh, you guys fight it out and I will say where I'm at when it's over." Lol.
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
Just so we’re clear, even your ideological/political compadres in this forum who elected to get it are sheep as well, right?
If someone is wearing a mask or double-masked while exercising alone outdoors, that person is a sheople.

But I believe Hammer's main point was he has had the bat virus and recovered - and consequently has a stronger/better immunity against it than a vaccinated person. If Hammer (and I) already have natural antibody immunity, why would anyone want us to be vaccinated - whose purpose is to produce antibody immunity? That makes no scientific or, even, common, sense. And yet here we are. The only likely thing that would happen in that case is that we would get sick in order to get something we already have.

So the real relevant question is do you think Hammer and I should assume the risks of vaccination, low as they are, to achieve an immunity that we already have?

The only explanation for those who are affirmative on that question is that it is either some kind of virtue signaling thing or it is a control thing.

But I was in between. I intended on getting the vaccine after more months of data rolled in and I could understand better the safety and efficacy of each vaccine. But once I went through the disease, I wished that I would have just gone ahead and done it. However, I think there are a lot of reasons for a reasonable person to be skeptical.

For some reason, the "these vaccines are perfect and anyone who questions them is a nut" crowd feels the need to denigrate those who have concerns. One of these days, I would like to fully understand why people of the left have to do this, but I do know that it is related to feelings of superiority and a need to dominate and control others. It really is one of the more ugly aspects of human nature.
 
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utsherman

Well-known member
You're quibbling over poor wording and ignoring the insane restrictions being placed on summer camp attendees. The fact that masks and social distancing are required for almost everything except swimming and eating is the problem. Not that the writer screwed up in saying it was two masks rather then 2 layers of one mask.

I also can't believe that you're acting as if during the covid pandemic there's a practical difference between CDC recommendations and policies. Almost every organization will treat then as one and the same.

It seems to me like you're deflecting from the point of the article which is that the CDC restrictions are over the top and do not reflect the best or most current thinking on covid mitigation. People should get angry over these kinds of empty headed, chicken little recommendations from what is supposed to be one of America's premier science & medial organizations.
Of course I'm quibbling over poor wording. Words still matter to some of us. And the context with which those words are used to craft a specific message for the reader. It would appear that if parents reading the article take a cursory glance, they'll interpret the requirement as their child needing to wear two masks at camp this summer. This seems to be the complaint for most of those who whine about MSM coverage, no? You can opine that you believe the recommendations are insane, and I don't agree with all of them either for the record. But I'll research the options and make the best determination for my kids. I'm sure other parents will do the same. We may even go old-school camping again this summer sans the masks. But I'm not sure how we'll virtue signal as a family without them? We'll have to think about that.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
In a public comment to the CDC, molecular biologist and toxicologist Dr. Janci Chunn Lindsay, Ph.D., called to immediately halt Covid vaccine production and distribution. Citing fertility, blood-clotting concerns (coagulopathy), and immune escape, Dr. Lindsay explained to the committee the scientific evidence showing that the coronavirus vaccines are not safe.


On April 23, 2021, the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices held a meeting in Atlanta, Georgia. The focus of this ACIP meeting was blood clotting disorders following Covid vaccines. Dr. Janci Chunn Lindsay spoke to the CDC during the time set aside for public comment.


Molecular Biologist and Toxicologist Calls to Halt Covid Vaccine


“Hi, my name is Dr. Janci Chunn Lindsay. I hold a doctorate in biochemistry and molecular biology from the University of Texas, and have over 30 years of scientific experience, primarily in toxicology and mechanistic biology.


In the mid-1990s, I aided the development of a temporary human contraceptive vaccine which ended up causing unintended autoimmune ovarian destruction and sterility in animal test models. Despite efforts against this and sequence analyses that did not predict this.


I strongly feel that all the gene therapy vaccines must be halted immediately due to safety concerns on several fronts.


Janci Chunn Lindsay: Covid vaccines could induce cross-reactive antibodies to syncytin, and impair fertility as well as pregnancy outcomes


First, there is a credible reason to believe that the Covid vaccines will cross-react with the syncytin and reproductive proteins in sperm, ova, and placenta, leading to impaired fertility and impaired reproductive and gestational outcomes.


Respected virologist Dr. Bill Gallaher, Ph.D., made excellent arguments as to why you would expect cross reaction. Due to beta sheet conformation similarities between spike proteins and syncytin-1 and syncytin-2.


I have yet to see a single immunological study which disproves this. Despite the fact that it would literally take the manufacturers a single day to do these syncytin studies to ascertain this [once they had serum from vaccinated individuals]. It’s been over a year since the assertions were first made that this [the body attacking its own syncytin proteins due to similarity in spike protein structure] could occur.


Pregnancy losses reported to VAERS lead to demand to halt Covid vaccine


We have seen 100 pregnancy losses reported in VAERS as of April 9th. And there have [also] been reports of impaired spermatogenesis and placental findings from both the natural infection, vaccinated, and syncytin knockout animal models that have similar placental pathology, implicating a syncytin-mediated role in these outcomes.


Additionally, we have heard of multiple reports of menses irregularities in those vaccinated. These must be investigated.


We simply cannot put these [vaccines] in our children who are at .002% risk for Covid mortality, if infected, or any more of the child-bearing age population without thoroughly investigating this matter.


[If we do], we could potentially sterilize an entire generation. Speculation that this will not occur and a few anecdotal reports of pregnancies within the trial are not sufficient proof that this is not impacting on a population-wide scale.


Covid vaccine causes blood disorders


Secondly, all of the gene therapies [Covid vaccines] are causing coagulopathy. [Coagulopathy when the body’s blood clotting system is impaired.] This is not isolated to one manufacturer. And this is not isolated to one age group.


As we are seeing coagulopathy deaths in healthy young adults with no secondary comorbidities.


There have been 795 reports related to blood clotting disorders as of April 9th in the VAERS reporting system, 338 of these being due to thrombocytopenia.


There are forward and backward mechanistic principles for why this is happening. The natural infection is known to cause coagulopathy due to the spike protein. All gene therapy vaccines direct the body to make the spike protein. Zhang et al in [a scientific paper published in the Journal of Hematology & Oncology] in September 2020 showed that if you infuse spike protein into mice that have humanized ACE-2 receptors on blood platelets that you also get disseminated thrombosis.


Spike protein incubated with human blood in vitro also caused blood clot development which was resistant to fibrinolysis. [Fibrinolysis is the body’s process of breaking down blood clots]. The spike protein is causing thrombocytic events, which cannot be resolved through natural means. And all vaccines must be halted in the hope that they can be reformulated to guard against this adverse effect.


Evidence for immune escape


Third, there is strong evidence for immune escape, and that inoculation under pandemic pressure with these leaky vaccines is driving the creation of more lethal mutants that are both newly infecting a younger age demographic, and causing more Covid-related deaths across the population than would have occurred without intervention.
That is, there is evidence that the vaccines are making the pandemic worse.


It is clear that we are seeing a temporal immune depression immediately following the inoculations [see World Meter Global Covid deaths counts following inoculation dates] and there are immunosuppressive regions on spike proteins, as well as Syn-2, that could be likely causing this, through a T-cell mediated mechanism. If we do not stop this vaccine campaign until these issues can be investigated, we may see a phenomenon such as we see in chickens with Marek’s disease.


More at JenniferMargulis.net


OldSoulon: This is certainly interesting, and science based information. Especially the Immune Escape issue.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
If someone is wearing a mask or double-masked while exercising alone outdoors, that person is a sheople.

But I believe Hammer's main point was he has had the bat virus and recovered - and consequently has a stronger/better immunity against it than a vaccinated person. If Hammer (and I) already have natural antibody immunity, why would anyone want us to be vaccinated - whose purpose is to produce antibody immunity? That makes no scientific or, even, common, sense. And yet here we are. The only likely thing that would happen in that case is that we would get sick in order to get something we already have.

So the real relevant question is do you think Hammer and I should assume the risks of vaccination, low as they are, to achieve an immunity that we already have?

The only explanation for those who are affirmative on that question is that it is either some kind of virtue signaling thing or it is a control thing.

But I was in between. I intended on getting the vaccine after more months of data rolled in and I could understand better the safety and efficacy of each vaccine. But once I went through the disease, I wished that I would have just gone ahead and done it. However, I think there are a lot of reasons for a reasonable person to be skeptical.

For some reason, the "these vaccines are perfect and anyone who questions them is a nut" crowd feels the need to denigrate them. One of these days, I would like to fully understand why people of the left have to do this, but I do know that it is related to feelings of superiority and a need to dominate and control others. It really is one of the more ugly aspects of human nature.
For the record, I have never called anyone a "nut" for failing to get the COVID vaccine. I even went out of my way to let the poster know that it was their choice on several occasions. Their decision to not get the vaccine, for whatever reason they choose, does not make those who select to do the opposite - sheep. But Hammerdrill still contends the same. 🤷‍♂️

The cherry on top for me, was when challenged to display consistency in this view, regardless of which way the lean, they wouldn't do it. So they'll have no problem calling me or, say, another 'lib' poster on this board a sheep, but will likely not provide the same compliment to you or LOTR, as an example. This would tell me that it's more of a politically or ideologically driven decision, IMO. <I don't want to call out my buddies.>
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
The cherry on top for me, was when challenged to display consistency in this view, regardless of which way the lean, they wouldn't do it. So they'll have no problem calling me or, say, another 'lib' poster on this board a sheep, but will likely not provide the same compliment to you or LOTR, as an example. This would tell me that it's more of a politically or ideologically driven decision, IMO. <I don't want to call out my buddies.>
Well, that last part is part of human nature too.

But what do you think? I'm asking you for your perspective and opinion. Should we get vaccinated even though we have already had the disease?
 
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