2021 GCYL Football

OnTheLine85 said:
Because those 14 teams have become 8 teams, and eventually those 8 teams will be 4 teams in the not so distant future. That will happen at some point in the next 10 years.
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I'd say cross that bridge when you come to it. No need to push for that before it becomes necessary. Also, if/when it comes to that, you'll see teams by grade as opposed to mixing two/three grades into one team as is the setup now.
 
adselder09 said:
I'd say cross that bridge when you come to it. No need to push for that before it becomes necessary. Also, if/when it comes to that, you'll see teams by grade as opposed to mixing two/three grades into one team as is the setup now.
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I agree that it's not something to be pushed right now - but it only makes sense that if parishes are consolidating, sports will to.

Are these Beacons of Light parish committees really going to consolidate everything but sports? Doubtful. That doesn't make a bunch of business sense but yes, I know, alot of the sports families will lobby to keep it separate, but I think that's very wishful thinking. The writing is on the wall.
 
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Mad Dogg said:
Like I said, that was said 10 years ago.
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But the number of teams DID decrease - and this Beacons of Light consolidation will decrease it again here in the next few years. The select team wasn't created but the number of teams went down - and will continue to go down when this consolidation matures.

I'm not saying it's going to happen this season, but it's going to happen. Basically, the only programs left will be the four main "hubs" on the westside and in the north/east.

I may be wrong, but again, I think it's very wishful thinking to think that these parishes are going to consolidate everything but sports. That just doesn't make sense.
 
I know it’s not that simple, and the logistics are messy, but if possible, I’d like to see a Panthers team operate independently of the GCYL. Include the parishes within city limits as well as making it open to non feeder kids.
 
Mad Dogg said:
Why have 1 team with 1 quarterback when you can have 8 Westside schools playing (or whatever the number is) with lots of different kids playing and developing?
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Better chance to lock in non feeder talent, like wrestling. I’ll take 1 super star over 8 good players.

It’s not a coincidence outside of volleyball, wrestling has been the most successful sport at Elder over the last 10 years.
 
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Omar said:
I know it’s not that simple, and the logistics are messy, but if possible, I’d like to see a Panthers team operate independently of the GCYL. Include the parishes within city limits as well as making it open to non feeder kids.
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I'm honestly very surprised people say that Elder has no interest in this. I don't get that. Why?

I think it would be very popular, especially for kids too big to play for their schools, and kids that excel athletically.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I'm honestly very surprised people say that Elder has no interest in this. I don't get that. Why?

I think it would be very popular, especially for kids too big to play for their schools, and kids that excel athletically.
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It’s a pain the a** to manage. It’s not like AAU where there’s a set schedule & league. Elder would have to find a league willing to take them, which would be unlikely bc it’ll be perceived as a handpicked all star team.
 
Omar said:
It’s a pain the a** to manage. It’s not like AAU where there’s a set schedule & league. Elder would have to find a league willing to take them, which would be unlikely bc it’ll be perceived as a handpicked all star team.
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Nobody on the Elder staff is going to manage it. I'm not suggesting that. Do the Elder basketball coaches manage their AAU basketball and baseball teams? I never see any of their coaches at AAU basketball and baseball games, so I'm assuming they don't. Most programs have people that are more than willing to run it because honestly, it provides access for them and their kids.

Aren't most of the select football leagues hand picked all-star teams?

I'm thinking of this as probably the best 4-5 kids on each team and some of the better non feeder kids - not simply anyone that wants to play. A great pseudo recruiting tool as well.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Nobody on the Elder staff is going to manage it. I'm not suggesting that. Do the Elder basketball coaches manage their AAU basketball and baseball teams? I never see any of their coaches at AAU basketball and baseball games, so I'm assuming they don't. Most programs have people that are more than willing to run it because honestly, it provides access for them and their kids.

Aren't most of the select football leagues hand picked all-star teams?

I'm thinking of this as probably the best 4-5 kids on each team and some of the better non feeder kids - not simply anyone that wants to play. A great pseudo recruiting tool as well.
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I’m not aware of any select teams for football. Again, the logistics of pulling kids from all over the feeders and whittling it down to one team is messy. Combining the price hill feeders & cps schools makes sense bc of the location being near Elder.
 
Omar said:
Better chance to lock in non feeder talent, like wrestling. I’ll take 1 super star over 8 good players.

It’s not a coincidence outside of volleyball, wrestling has been the most successful sport at Elder over the last 10 years.
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The Kids Club and Junior High Wrestling Coaches have put in a lot of time and hard work to make All the kids they Coach better people and wrestlers. If those kids attend Elder Coach Roush and staff continue to make them better people and wrestlers. I am biased, but I think from Youth-HS Levels the Elder Wrestling Coaches are the best entire group of Coaches (some volunteers) at Elder. Not meant to take anything away from any of the other Coaches either. I’m not so sure either that Elder really cares about how the Grade School Football League is Played they just need/want one to exist.
 
Omar said:
I’m not aware of any select teams for football. Again, the logistics of pulling kids from all over the feeders and whittling it down to one team is messy. Combining the price hill feeders & cps schools makes sense bc of the location being near Elder.
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I don't think that is the answer either. There is only room for 11 players on the field at a time. Elder needs as many feeder schools playing football and developing in grade school as possible. The feeder school pipeline will fall off dramatically if you pool those kids to one Elder club team where only 11-15 of the better kids are getting the playing time and reps in practice. As long as a grade school has a roster of at least about 15 kids they should continue fielding a team. I think ideally you would want all the teams to have in the 24-30 range so they have enough to scrimmage in practice and also be more competitive in games. More than 35 then you have a lot of kids sitting on the sideline during games and practice.

My thought for an Elder club team would be grade school feeders who are too big for the GCYL. Elder has had players in the past too big to play for their school team so they played for the Tower Tians who practiced at Lasalle(not good), or they practiced with their school team but were not allowed to play in games(also not good). On an Elder club team, you might have some public school kids on it who plan on attending Elder and don't want to play for their middle school team, and you might have some players whose school doesn't field a football team.
 
Here's what I think will happen. Over the next 2-3 years, the Beacons of Light parish committees will consolidate operations as expected, and some parishes will close. When you look at the groups across Cincinnati, everyone can probably guess the ones that will close in the north, east and west. They probably should close.

I think everyone assumes when those parishes close, students will just pick a school in their family and move on. I don't think that's going to happen. With no border restrictions, kids that like sports are going to pick the family that's likely to have the most sports success. It's going to cause a large enrollment boost to the schools that already have the highest enrollment.

Schools like IHM, Susanna, Ignatius, Visitation and Jude are basically going to become super teams anyway because more students, especially the better athletes, will flock to them. The rich will get richer and I think some of the smaller families, like St Marys/SMOY, Victory/Dominic, Teresa/William, Antoninus/Lourdes, James/St Anns, St Ann/Sacred Heart - will actually see a decrease in enrollment and be in danger of even further consolidation.

How can these football schools continue to pair up (e.g. Antoninus/Teresa, Jude/Lourdes) when they're not even in the same parish family? There's no way it's going to happen. How on earth are the smaller parish families going to compete with Susanna and IHM? And how are the westside parish families going to compete with the Jude/Vistation juggernaut?
 
For example, the Teresa/William family may not even be able to field a team. What's the rule on where these kids are going to play?

If you let them pick, that's pretty much the same as having select teams. If you don't let them pick, they'll just move to the family of the team they want to play on.

I can't see how the current football alignments survive with this - but if that's true, it just opens up a whole new can of worms. This is why I think you will start to see independent teams start to form.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
I don't think that is the answer either. There is only room for 11 players on the field at a time. Elder needs as many feeder schools playing football and developing in grade school as possible. The feeder school pipeline will fall off dramatically if you pool those kids to one Elder club team where only 11-15 of the better kids are getting the playing time and reps in practice. As long as a grade school has a roster of at least about 15 kids they should continue fielding a team. I think ideally you would want all the teams to have in the 24-30 range so they have enough to scrimmage in practice and also be more competitive in games. More than 35 then you have a lot of kids sitting on the sideline during games and practice.

My thought for an Elder club team would be grade school feeders who are too big for the GCYL. Elder has had players in the past too big to play for their school team so they played for the Tower Tians who practiced at Lasalle(not good), or they practiced with their school team but were not allowed to play in games(also not good). On an Elder club team, you might have some public school kids on it who plan on attending Elder and don't want to play for their middle school team, and you might have some players whose school doesn't field a football team.
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it’s naive to think development is more important than actual talent. Quality over quantity.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
For example, the Teresa/William family may not even be able to field a team. What's the rule on where these kids are going to play?

If you let them pick, that's pretty much the same as having select teams. If you don't let them pick, they'll just move to the family of the team they want to play on.

I can't see how the current football alignments survive with this - but if that's true, it just opens up a whole new can of worms. This is why I think you will start to see independent teams start to form.
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I think they play for Victory. That’s why I think a Panther team of Price Hill parishes + CPS makes sense bc there’s going to be too many kids playing for Victory. Ideally, you’d get 20-30 kids on this team, and the kids are linked to Elder early.
 
Omar said:
it’s naive to think development is more important than actual talent. Quality over quantity.
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I don't think I'm really saying that, but even the most talented kids have to develop. What's most important is kids actually playing football. Elder's football roster would be cut in half at least if there was not a GCYL/Western Conference league. I would just guess at least 80% of Elder's roster every year is kids who played in the GCYL. How many of those kids would have never tried football if their school did not have a team to sign up for? It's important. Bringing in some non-feeders is obviously important too. An Elder club team would help that, but you obviously need a strong core of feeder kids which the GCYL provides.
 
Omar said:
I think they play for Victory. That’s why I think a Panther team of Price Hill parishes + CPS makes sense bc there’s going to be too many kids playing for Victory. Ideally, you’d get 20-30 kids on this team, and the kids are linked to Elder early.
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I thought someone said last year that St. William kids were pulled to Victory and St. Teresa were pulled to Antoninus.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
I don't think I'm really saying that, but even the most talented kids have to develop. What's most important is kids actually playing football. Elder's football roster would be cut in half at least if there was not a GCYL/Western Conference league. I would just guess at least 80% of Elder's roster every year is kids who played in the GCYL. How many of those kids would have never tried football if their school did not have a team to sign up for? It's important. Bringing in some non-feeders is obviously important too. An Elder club team would help that, but you obviously need a strong core of feeder kids which the GCYL provides.
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I don’t want the Feeders/GCYL to go away. I think it’s smart to have your basic feeders and a Panther club team consisting of kids from Price Hill, since those parishes are smaller.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Here's what I think will happen. Over the next 2-3 years, the Beacons of Light parish committees will consolidate operations as expected, and some parishes will close. When you look at the groups across Cincinnati, everyone can probably guess the ones that will close in the north, east and west. They probably should close.

I think everyone assumes when those parishes close, students will just pick a school in their family and move on. I don't think that's going to happen. With no border restrictions, kids that like sports are going to pick the family that's likely to have the most sports success. It's going to cause a large enrollment boost to the schools that already have the highest enrollment.

Schools like IHM, Susanna, Ignatius, Visitation and Jude are basically going to become super teams anyway because more students, especially the better athletes, will flock to them. The rich will get richer and I think some of the smaller families, like St Marys/SMOY, Victory/Dominic, Teresa/William, Antoninus/Lourdes, James/St Anns, St Ann/Sacred Heart - will actually see a decrease in enrollment and be in danger of even further consolidation.

How can these football schools continue to pair up (e.g. Antoninus/Teresa, Jude/Lourdes) when they're not even in the same parish family? There's no way it's going to happen. How on earth are the smaller parish families going to compete with Susanna and IHM? And how are the westside parish families going to compete with the Jude/Vistation juggernaut?
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Didn't they already announce which parishes were actually closing? Why do you think in 2-3 years that will change? They spent 2 years researching and planning this. Jude and Visitation for example are 1 family of parishes, but they still have mass at each Church, students at each school, and separate sports teams. Why would that change? They aren't closing one. There wouldn't be enough room in the schools for all of the students. That is one example and maybe a bad one. Anyways, my point is you seem to think A LOT is going to change in 2-3 years. I disagree considering the amount of time and resources they put into planning this whole thing.
 
Omar said:
I think they play for Victory. That’s why I think a Panther team of Price Hill parishes + CPS makes sense bc there’s going to be too many kids playing for Victory. Ideally, you’d get 20-30 kids on this team, and the kids are linked to Elder early.
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I know that's how it is now - but Victory and Williams aren't tied together in their new parish families. So they're going to go through this whole process of parish consolidation, and sports have no connection to the consolidation? I just can't see that happening.

And if a kid from the Teresa/Williams parish family can play for Victory, why can't he play for Jude? Or Visitation? And to further that, the Teresa kids and the Williams kids are now in a parish family, but the Williams kids play for Victory and the Teresa kids play for Antoninus? That makes even less sense. How are they going to build the community they strive for with that dis-connect?

This is going to be a cluster from a sports perspective. And because of that, the sports side will suffer with more kids looking for alternatives.
 
Omar said:
I don’t want the Feeders/GCYL to go away. I think it’s smart to have your basic feeders and a Panther club team consisting of kids from Price Hill, since those parishes are smaller.
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You are really stuck on Price Hill. I think the kids from Price Hill they want are already in the Catholic grade schools at St. William, St. Teresa, Holy Family, St. Lawrence, Resurrection. If you are talking public school, I would be more interested in seeing Elder attract kids from the Winton Woods/Forest Park/Mt. Healthy area as well as Oak Hills, White Oak/Colerain, and Taylor.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
Didn't they already announce which parishes were actually closing? Why do you think in 2-3 years that will change? They spent 2 years researching and planning this. Jude and Visitation for example are 1 family of parishes, but they still have mass at each Church, students at each school, and separate sports teams. Why would that change? They aren't closing one. There wouldn't be enough room in the schools for all of the students. That is one example and maybe a bad one. Anyways, my point is you seem to think A LOT is going to change in 2-3 years. I disagree considering the amount of time and resources they put into planning this whole thing.
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No they haven't - and neither Jude nor Visitation are going to close. But for the smaller schools in each family, that will be their fate eventually, whether it's 2-3 years or 10 years.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I know that's how it is now - but Victory and Williams aren't tied together in their new parish families. So they're going to go through this whole process of parish consolidation, and sports have no connection to the consolidation? I just can't see that happening.

And if a kid from the Teresa/Williams parish family can play for Victory, why can't he play for Jude? Or Visitation? And to further that, the Teresa kids and the Williams kids are now in a parish family, but the Williams kids play for Victory and the Teresa kids play for Antoninus? That makes even less sense. How are they going to build the community they strive for with that dis-connect?

This is going to be a cluster from a sports perspective. And because of that, the sports side will suffer with more kids looking for alternatives.
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That is a good point. On the sports side, for football, it would make sense for the schools to form teams with other schools in their parish family.
 
From the beginning, I think they vastly under-estimated how much of an impact sports teams have on the Catholic experience. They completely ignored that dimension with this plan. And it's going to bite them.

Because of that, it will either result in strict rules that people will hate, or they won't care at all, and it will be free agency. Both are bad paths.
 
Here is a breakdown of the families of parishes the AOC created.

SW 1 Visitation, St. Jude, St. Joseph (North Bend)
SW 2 St. John the Baptist (Harrison)
SW 3 Victory, St. Al's(Ohio), St. Simon, St. Vincent De Paul, St. Dominic
SW 4 St. Teresa, St. William, St. Lawrence, Resurrection
SW 5 St. James, St. Ann, St. Margaret Mary, St. Bernard
SW 6 St. John (Dry Ridge), Corpus Christi, St. John Neumann
SW 7 Lourdes, St. Martin, St. Al's(Bridgetown), St. Catharine, St. Antoninus
SW 8 St. Ignatius
 
OnTheLine85 said:
From the beginning, I think they vastly under-estimated how much of an impact sports teams have on the Catholic experience. They completely ignored that dimension with this plan. And it's going to bite them.

Because of that, it will either result in strict rules that people will hate, or they won't care at all, and it will be free agency. Both are bad paths.
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AOC has no hand in running the sports league. The parishes themselves I'm sure collect money from the sports boosters, but AOC I believe stays out of running the leagues. I think you are overreacting about it. Let's say the AOC closes St. Al's Bridetown for example. They close the school, they close the Church, they sell the school building and Church. They already have the family of parish set up for that. St. Al's Bridgetown is in SW 7 so they would have students and parishoners then attend Lourdes or St. Martin. Realistically, they would probably switch to Jude, Visitation, Martin, or Lourdes. The school these families would want to go to would actually have to have room in their school though. Some schools cap classroom size to a certain amount of students.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
AOC has no hand in running the sports league. The parishes themselves I'm sure collect money from the sports boosters, but AOC I believe stays out of running the leagues. I think you are overreacting about it. Let's say the AOC closes St. Al's Bridetown for example. They close the school, they close the Church, they sell the school building and Church. They already have the family of parish set up for that. St. Al's Bridgetown is in SW 7 so they would have students and parishoners then attend Lourdes or St. Martin. Realistically, they would probably switch to Jude, Visitation, Martin, or Lourdes. The school these families would want to go to would actually have to have room in their school though. Some schools cap classroom size to a certain amount of students.
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I understand that. But imo the biggest hurdle to success for this is going to be how sports are handled. I think the parish consolidation makes sense, but there was no forethought on how sports are currently coordinated vs. how it will work in the new system. They're basically saying "figure it out" - and we all know that no school is going to want to give up control of their sports teams. It will be the biggest hurdle to figure out, and will be a battle of egos. Parishes would be very wise to include athletic reps in these meetings, otherwise, rules are going to be made for them. There's no way they can ignore sports in all of this.

And I've said from the beginning, if they're truly trying to make this a more family environment by bringing several entities together, you can't say that and then splinter how sports are run. It will be very hard to get this right.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I understand that. But imo the biggest hurdle to success for this is going to be how sports are handled. I think the parish consolidation makes sense, but there was no forethought on how sports are currently coordinated vs. how it will work in the new system. They're basically saying "figure it out" - and we all know that no school is going to want to give up control of their sports teams. It will be the biggest hurdle to figure out, and will be a battle of egos. Parishes would be very wise to include athletic reps in these meetings, otherwise, rules are going to be made for them. There's no way they can ignore sports in all of this.

And I've said from the beginning, if they're truly trying to make this a more family environment by bringing several entities together, you can't say that and then splinter how sports are run. It will be very hard to get this right.
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They aren't forcing any schools together yet. I think that comes when they actually close a school and sell the building. In that case, there is no "battle of egos" as you put it(odd to say egos when a person would want their school team to survive).

On the other hand, if the parish priest head starts cutting sports or forcing school together then that's a different situation. I don't think they would want to put that on their plate when they have no idea of the landscape.
 
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