Would anyone step up to D1

Tarblooder_Rocketgrad said:
Re: St. Ignatius, I don’t think they’ll ever get to the level they were at previously for a few reasons. The rise of Hoban and St. Edward to elite status and kids more willing to stay at their local public. Back in the day kids from Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties wouldn’t think twice about going to St. Ignatius. Avon, Medina, Highland, Aurora, Chardon, Avon Lake, etc. are benefitting from kids staying “home”. Re: us showing off our talent in at least D3, I’m not sure how much I care about that. We intentionally schedule the toughest non-conference in the state, 2024 were playing D1 champs, a D1 regional finalist, D2 runner up, D2 state semi-finalist and we’ve attempted to get the D2 champs on the schedule in ‘23 and ‘24 unfortunately schedules didn’t align for that one. Our weakest non-conf opponent is D1 Liberty that lost to D1 regional finalist Coffman. All that to say it would be cool to be back in D1 and hopefully win it but our priority is sending kids to school and thank God neither the Senate nor dropping divisions have stopped the colleges from recruiting out kids. I’ll be honest, I was worried about that when we were deciding on his high school.
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Your schedule is definitely tough even for a D1 but they playoffs... Plus everyone will have another conniption.
 
TigerPaw said:
Your schedule is definitely tough even for a D1 but they playoffs... Plus everyone will have another conniption.
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Agreed and agreed. I have no say in it but if I did, I would have Glenville opt up to D1 in 2025. On a side note, have you heard if the Tarblooders and Tigers will be playing on the lower levels again this Fall? Thanks in advance.
 
Tarblooder_Rocketgrad said:
I was like WTF?!?! 🤣 soooo much poverty in and around our program. I just hope no one takes a look at our parking lot during practice or sees how our kids dress, we like the poverty angle better LMAOOO. But I get their point, we have 250 boys and have more talent than St. Ignatius which has 1,100 boys. Same goes for you guys, Hoban, TCC, etc.
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I think we can agree that Glenville is an exception to the rule. They are basically the Cleveland Schools All Star team. Beyond Glenville who by the way has an elite middle school aged program as a feeder system, what other urban city school in Ohio is good? You can maybe name four and that may be a stretch. The poverty situation is a realistic obstacle that makes things very difficult to compete with.
 
fbrox said:
I think we can agree that Glenville is an exception to the rule. They are basically the Cleveland Schools All Star team. Beyond Glenville who by the way has an elite middle school aged program as a feeder system, what other urban city school in Ohio is good? You can maybe name four and that may be a stretch. The poverty situation is a realistic obstacle that makes things very difficult to compete with.
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Not necessity elite compared to Ginn Elite standards but Hoban has Akron Armor and Massillon has Tigers Academy both are very strong feeder programs. But I get your overall point, I just don’t know how you build in a poverty metric.
 
fbrox said:
I think we can agree that Glenville is an exception to the rule. They are basically the Cleveland Schools All Star team. Beyond Glenville who by the way has an elite middle school aged program as a feeder system, what other urban city school in Ohio is good? You can maybe name four and that may be a stretch. The poverty situation is a realistic obstacle that makes things very difficult to compete with.
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It is not the disadvantage you think in football as maybe some of the olympic sports. I know Massillon is not vs. all our wealthier neighbors. And McKinley dominates the FL. I look for WGH to improve alot. Yes there are certain challenges but the talent is there you either have a solid program solid support and the right coach(s) that kids want to play for, or you don't.

Another problem is private schools now draw more of them than ever before. I remember when Buchtel was tough as nails! Back to back state champs.
 
TigerPaw said:
It is not the disadvantage you think in football as maybe some of the olympic sports. I know Massillon is not vs. all our wealthier neighbors. And McKinley dominates the FL. I look for WGH to improve alot. Yes there are certain challenges but the talent is there you either have a solid program solid support and the right coach(s) that kids want to play for, or you don't.

Another problem is private schools now draw more of them than ever before. I remember when Buchtel was tough as nails! Back to back state champs.
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Yes Buchtel and WGH were great teams back then but that was 20 plus years ago and with vouchers at nearly every private school and open enrollment expansion, times have changed. Glenville is a great program but they do not operate the same way as every inner city school. The use of Ginn Academy is unprecedented and creates a virtual Cleveland All Star team. They’ll tell you it doesn’t but that is truly a disingenuous position to take.
 
Tarblooder_Rocketgrad said:
Not necessity elite compared to Ginn Elite standards but Hoban has Akron Armor and Massillon has Tigers Academy both are very strong feeder programs. But I get your overall point, I just don’t know how you build in a poverty metric.
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ODE releases on its state report card a category called “economically disadvantaged”. It is based on percent of students living below federal poverty level, sometimes called “federal free lunch”.
 
fbrox said:
Yes Buchtel and WGH were great teams back then but that was 20 plus years ago and with vouchers at nearly every private school and open enrollment expansion, times have changed. Glenville is a great program but they do not operate the same way as every inner city school. The use of Ginn Academy is unprecedented and creates a virtual Cleveland All Star team. They’ll tell you it doesn’t but that is truly a disingenuous position to take.
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I hear you and to be fair you genuinely may not know… When you have a minute take a look at the Glenville teams BEFORE Ginn Academy opened. They were absolutely stacked and one of the best players in Glenville and Ohio history, Darius Hiley unfortunately didn’t make his mark at Ohio State. What you posted is a common narrative but it lacks fact and is based on ignorance, respectfully…
 
fbrox said:
ODE releases on its state report card a category called “economically disadvantaged”. It is based on percent of students living below federal poverty level, sometimes called “federal free lunch”.
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Gotcha. That seems like a relatively straight forward way to measure poverty and if OHSAA introduces a poverty metric I’d bet they’d use this.
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
The idea of using a poverty metric is absurd.
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I don’t entirely disagree with you. I looked at these numbers. Obviously more than one year of data would be needed but from this year I found:
D1 St. Edward poverty not reported but clearly they would be low.
D2 Massillon 100 percent poverty
D3 TCC poverty not reported but it would be low
D4 Glenville 100 percent poverty
D5 Perry 14.8 percent
D6 Kirtland 5.5 percent
D7 Marion Local 0 percent
 
fbrox said:
I don’t entirely disagree with you. I looked at these numbers. Obviously more than one year of data would be needed but from this year I found:
D1 St. Edward poverty not reported but clearly they would be low.
D2 Massillon 100 percent poverty
D3 TCC poverty not reported but it would be low
D4 Glenville 100 percent poverty
D5 Perry 14.8 percent
D6 Kirtland 5.5 percent
D7 Marion Local 0 percent
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100% of Massillon students live in poverty?
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
100% of Massillon students live in poverty?
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If you go by the free/reduced lunch rate
Massilon 54%
MSML under 4%
Glenville 91%
GA 73%

This is not a true poverty rate but shows who qualifies for free/ reduced lunch cost. There is some data for Catholic and charter schools but I don't know if Eds or TCC are list.
 
fbrox said:
I don’t entirely disagree with you. I looked at these numbers. Obviously more than one year of data would be needed but from this year I found:
D1 St. Edward poverty not reported but clearly they would be low.
D2 Massillon 100 percent poverty
D3 TCC poverty not reported but it would be low
D4 Glenville 100 percent poverty
D5 Perry 14.8 percent
D6 Kirtland 5.5 percent
D7 Marion Local 0 percent
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Your % for Massillon is inaccurate.
 
zski71 said:
If you go by the free/reduced lunch rate
Massilon 54%
MSML under 4%
Glenville 91%
GA 73%

This is not a true poverty rate but shows who qualifies for free/ reduced lunch cost.
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Not really a good metric. They give out free lunch (and breakfast) like popcorn these days.
 
fbrox said:
Yes Buchtel and WGH were great teams back then but that was 20 plus years ago and with vouchers at nearly every private school and open enrollment expansion, times have changed. Glenville is a great program but they do not operate the same way as every inner city school. The use of Ginn Academy is unprecedented and creates a virtual Cleveland All Star team. They’ll tell you it doesn’t but that is truly a disingenuous position to take.
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"Harding" is/was Harding's biggest issue. Not vouchers. Howland & LaBrae are bigger threats to acquire & maintain Warren talent than JFK is.

Overall, stereotypes (whether valid or invalid) hurt public schools in urban areas. The "Chris Wells" of the world aren't going to Akron Garfield anymore, which is how Hoban started really establishing dominance ten years ago. Even Ursuline didn't win their first state title until after the original Youngstown East closed (1998; Ursuline's 1st title was in 2000).
 

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Tarblooder_Rocketgrad said:
Economically disadvantaged and poverty are two different things. All that said, OHSAA isn’t going to use a poverty metric to determine divisions.
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fbrox said:
I don’t entirely disagree with you. I looked at these numbers. Obviously more than one year of data would be needed but from this year I found:
D1 St. Edward poverty not reported but clearly they would be low.
D2 Massillon 100 percent poverty
D3 TCC poverty not reported but it would be low
D4 Glenville 100 percent poverty
D5 Perry 14.8 percent
D6 Kirtland 5.5 percent
D7 Marion Local 0 percent
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I was responding to fbrox.
 
Oil Filter said:
Not really a good metric. They give out free lunch (and breakfast) like popcorn these days.
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I agree it's multiple times poverty level to qualify. I was just putting the numbers out there because someone mentioned it as a financial measure. What is interesting is the 20% difference from Glenville to Ginn, but all their players live in the Glenville district. Thought their percentages would be closer.
 
zski71 said:
I agree it's multiple times poverty level to qualify. I was just putting the numbers out there because someone mentioned it as a financial measure. What is interesting is the 20% difference from Glenville to Ginn, but all their players live in the Glenville district. Thought their percentages would be closer.
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Those numbers are for the entire student body and not restricted to football players.
 
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