If Russia invades Ukraine pt 2

WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
So what if we (US) did destroy the pipeline? It wasn’t being used but it’s destruction perhaps sends the message to Putin & Europe that ‘there’s no going back to Russian gas’…..as long as Putin remains in charge. I do not believe we (US) destroyed it but if so, again so what?

As for destroying the semi conductor facilities in Taiwan if it were to fall to China, I think letting everyone know this exactly what we (US) would do is 100% spot on. Destroying those facilities would put a severe dent in chip production for the all, it would hurt the US just as much as it would hurt China. However it’s another deterrent for convincing China not to invade Taiwan.
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Yet we failed to destroy the treasure trove of military equipment we left to the Taliban.
 
OldSoulon said:
Russia has more people to burn through than Ukraine.
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Not in reality.

Putin has shown in his mobilization that he isn't willing to mobilize from the major Urban centers out of fear of revolt.

The rural population of Russia is less than the entire population of Ukraine.

If Russia doesn't mobilize from its Cities then it does not have a manpower advantage. Furthermore Russia has only mobilized from the male population while Ukraine has mobilized both men and women.
 
lotr10 said:
I think I can say with confidence that this speaks for a lot of conservatives about Ukraine:

townhall.com

DeSantis Is Right About Ukraine

townhall.com townhall.com

Ron DeSantis came out against our current blank check n’ hack cliches Ukraine policy, stating the indisputable truth that Ukraine was not a vital US interest worthy of risking World War III with Russia. The next day he was proven right when a Russian SU-27 knocked a US Reaper drone into the Black Sea. Hey, feeding Russians (and Ukrainians) into a meat grinder is all fun and games until we get dragged into the abattoir too. Of course, all the right people got really mad about it – when Bill Kristol, Adam Kinzinger, David French, Max Boot and Mitt Romney are all for something, you need to be against it. Hardest hit was the GOP establishment – it was very sad because the governor refuses to be dragged along into cheerleading yet another massive foreign policy failure.

And this Ukraine policy of feeding the fire in perpetuity will lead to yet another massive foreign policy failure. Massive failure is all our foreign policy elite knows. Name one of its successes since 1993. Don’t say the Abraham Accords – that was a huge success and had nothing to do with our foreign policy establishment. It was Trump outsiders who did it. The foreign policy establishment brought us Vietnam and Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. It brought us debt, blood, and humiliation. Yet, astonishingly, perpetual nimrods like Mitch McConnell John Cornyn and Lindsey Graham still defer to these utter losers.

But not Ron DeSantis. And he will be vindicated by the time he wins the nomination. Same with Trump should he win the nomination, but everyone expected him to say what he is currently saying – they were hoping that the Great Not Orange Hope would side with Team Sap and he rejected them. Ron DeSantis – who served in Iraq and saw the failure firsthand – has rejected the Beltway consensus. He’s a bit ahead of most of America now, but after another year and a half of this madness he and the American people will be in synch. If he wins the nomination, he will be an anti-war Republican against a pro-war establishment Democrat.
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So abandoning Ukrainians to the tyrannical meat grinder is solid foreign policy, got it.
 
In the meantime: China and Russia have grown closer; China just brokered a deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, China continues to buy up American farmland and have deepening influence in South America. But yes, by all means, focus on Russia who proves every day they are inept...
 
Costa said:
In the meantime: China and Russia have grown closer; China just brokered a deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, China continues to buy up American farmland and have deepening influence in South America. But yes, by all means, focus on Russia who proves every day they are inept...
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In what way have China and Russia grown closer?

Why are you upset that SA and Iran have normalized relations?

Why does it bother you that China buys American farmland?
 
lotr10 said:
Here's more from this excellent article:

townhall.com

DeSantis Is Right About Ukraine

townhall.com townhall.com

Americans are not pacifists, but they are sick of failure, and that’s what Ukraine is looking to become. Most Americans feel that Ukraine is corrupt, which it totally is – I saw it personally. They feel sympathy for the Ukrainians, as do I (I trained Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine for the Army). And they agree with DeSantis that this territorial dispute – which it is – is not a vital American interest that overcomes other priorities and that is worth endless treasure and maybe even blood. We generally hope Ukraine wins, but this is not our fight. Nor is the war likely to spread to NATO countries where we have treaty obligations – the idea that we need to retake Crimea so the Russians don’t show up in Berlin, much less London, is ridiculous. Americans are not prepared to put up with this conflict forever, but forever wars that culminate in embassy helicopter evacuations and people falling off C-17s are what the Beltway buffoons do.
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So much hyperbole.

"but they are sick of failure, and that’s what Ukraine is looking to become"

Like its rooting for a sports team "im not supporting these losers"

"Ukraine is corrupt, which it totally is"

ok...whats that got to do with them being invaded and fighting for the survival of their country? Mexico is corrupt, guess we better invade them.

"territorial dispute – which it is"

Hitler "annexing" Poland, Austria, Czechoslovakia etc was merely a territorial dispute. Bad foreign policy for us to get involved.

"endless treasure and maybe even blood"

I have yet to hear one person suggest we commit troops to this conflict.

"Nor is the war likely to spread to NATO countries where we have treaty obligations – the idea that we need to retake Crimea so the Russians don’t show up in Berlin, much less London, is ridiculous"

how about in say Warsaw? Or Riga? Or Tallinn? If they showed up in non NATO Helsinki we'd sit back and go not our war, good luck!

"Americans are not prepared to put up with this conflict forever"

they put up with 20 years of war in Afghanistan where American troops were in harms way. There are no American troops in harms way in Ukraine...the war there will fade into the background just as easily.
 
y2h said:
So abandoning Ukrainians to the tyrannical meat grinder is solid foreign policy, got it.
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I prefer to use our resources on the southern border and to deter China. Not engage in an endless war against a weak country that shows every day that they are in no way a threat to us.
 
lotr10 said:
My virus protection is a lot better then yours so check this out from the article I posted. What do you dispute?

The Ukrainians have to do what the Ukrainians have to do – I do not blame them for trying to wring dough and bombs out of Uncle Sucker. Nor am I upset that they appear to prefer to fight and die rather than enter into negotiations that will leave Russians on their territory. I get it. They are patriots supporting their country. But we normal Americans are patriots too, and our country is the United States. We expect Ukraine to pursue its national interests, but we expect America’s leadership to pursue America’s national interests. And it is in our national interest to get this war ended, even if it means Putin holds ground his forces conquered.

The whiners will whine that this is a betrayal of Ukraine. It’s not. We cannot betray a country that it not our own. It is instead a rational and ruthless bit of realpolitik – we must pursue America’s interests, not Ukraine’s. Ending this war is in America’s interest.
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How is it in our interests to send the messages to tyrants around the world that we are too weak willed to finish what they start? That we abandon those willing to do their own fighting and dying rather than asking for our blood?

It's not our war to end. That's up to the Ukrainians and Russians. We are merely providing the means that when it ends it ends on Ukraines terms rather than Putins.
 
Indiandad said:
In what way have China and Russia grown closer?

Why are you upset that SA and Iran have normalized relations?

Why does it bother you that China buys American farmland?
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China owning our farmland is not a concern? What is wrong with you? China brokering deals in the middle east is a danger to the west. I shouldnt even have to explain why.
 
Costa said:
I prefer to use our resources on the southern border and to deter China. Not engage in an endless war against a weak country that shows every day that they are in no way a threat to us.
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The border has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine. It's all about the will of the current administration to handle it. They don't mind an open border therefore it will continue unabated until there is a change in leadership.
 
Indiandad said:
How would you deter China?
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Promote more manufacturing here to become less dependent on them; stronger military presence in Taiwan, South Korea and Japan; ban their purchasing of American land; Expand and strengthen our own military as it is obvious China is a far bigger threat than the incompetent and inept Russians.
 
In September 1938, the Munich Agreement granted Adolf Hitler the Sudetenland, a border area of Czechoslovakia home to many ethnic Germans. Five months later, Hitler violated the agreement, invaded, and occupied the remainder of Czechoslovakia.
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This sounds familiar...
 
Costa said:
Promote more manufacturing here to become less dependent on them; stronger military presence in Taiwan, South Korea and Japan; ban their purchasing of American land; Expand and strengthen our own military as it is obvious China is a far bigger threat than the incompetent and inept Russians.
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All of those are currently being done by this administration except the banning of farmland.
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
The khans ruled this area of land didn't they?
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khan-kirk.gif
 
y2h said:
How is it in our interests to send the messages to tyrants around the world that we are too weak willed to finish what they start? That we abandon those willing to do their own fighting and dying rather than asking for our blood?

It's not our war to end. That's up to the Ukrainians and Russians. We are merely providing the means that when it ends it ends on Ukraines terms rather than Putins.
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We'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think restricting our aid to Ukraine shows weakness nor do I think that forcing Ukraine to the bargaining table with Russia as a price for the aid we give them showing weakness.
 
y2h said:
"endless treasure and maybe even blood"

I have yet to hear one person suggest we commit troops to this conflict.
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Come on y2h there were constant calls for declaring a no fly zone over Ukraine in the first few months of the war. Enforcement, by the US, of a no fly zone installed AFTER Russia invaded would lead directly to war.
 
Costa said:
In the meantime: China and Russia have grown closer; China just brokered a deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran, China continues to buy up American farmland and have deepening influence in South America. But yes, by all means, focus on Russia who proves every day they are inept...
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Tunnel vision with no vision for the future. Why Why Why is our Southern Border not being protected? I'm suppose to trust our government that won't even protect their own citizens? What happened to the Globalists agenda? Liars and thieves
 
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