JV Team a Dying Tradition ?

Austin.J.Powers

Active member
How many/which small schools are still able to field a Junior Varsity Team?

Is this a dying program in most schools?

What are thoughts to help BUILD the game of baseball in Ohio?
 
 
It seems like we were having this conversation just a few short years ago about Freshmen teams.

Unfortunately, I think we've decided that HS sports are supposed to compete at the highest level and players who do not play year-round are discouraged from playing the game. Maybe it is time to reward coaches for organizing more than one team regardless of success.
 
Our HS program in SW ohio has had JV for as long as I can remember ( back in late 90's)

Not all teams in our league have them though.
 
It seems like we were having this conversation just a few short years ago about Freshmen teams.

Unfortunately, I think we've decided that HS sports are supposed to compete at the highest level and players who do not play year-round are discouraged from playing the game. Maybe it is time to reward coaches for organizing more than one team regardless of success.
Definitely enjoy seeing the developmental aspect of schools with JV and the success shows in the programs with the strong tradition.

It's a hard sport to "sell" to a kid anymore as there aren't the big crowds, pep bands and overall environment that builds the fun and suspense. And I think the love of the game is dwindling with the rise of NBA and NFL. You don't see the random pickup games at the local diamond or someone's backyard anymore.
 
How many/which small schools are still able to field a Junior Varsity Team?

Is this a dying program in most schools?

What are thoughts to help BUILD the game of baseball in Ohio?
Buddy is HC at local HS.

Strong baseball program for years and they have two JV teams but one is essentially a freshman team that is forced to play a JV schedule because there are no longer enough freshman teams to compete. The local recreation program used to have roughly 8 teams per class and today it is down to 1 team playing against other recreation programs.

Yappi hit the nail on the head, today we bottleneck local school districts through travel baseball at 8U so that group of kids becomes your pool of contestants come HS.

The funny thing is I still see one or two kids come from the rec. program and get to varsity every year. It makes me wonder how many other kids would have made it had they been given the opportunity to compete from a young age. It is a huge pitfall that we have put ourselves in by specialization and "travel" ball at 8U/9U in today's world. We are missing the boat and boxing out some really good athletes and killing baseball in America.
 
"Travel ball" and its consequences have been a disaster for the game of baseball.

It is absolutely deplorable to see how much the "Rec" game has been depleted while you are expected to pay stupid amounts of money to get on a travel team. Add to that the absolute neglect of coaching and focus on games/tournaments above practice, the ridiculous antics that travel teams have started to pull with the growing social media spotlight on literal 8th graders (there are 2026s making commitments without playing a single HS game), etc. and we are absolutely going down a path where baseball is becoming a "country club" sport in the US, which goes against the heart of the game.

I have seen many "Rec ball" kids that were even if not better than the kids whose parents are shelling out thousands of dollars to have their son throw a ball into the net with a running start and somehow have that be determinant of their game.
 
He was referring to basketball, but my buddy used to say that you kill your HS numbers when you try to pick your varsity team when the kids are only in 7th grade.

The other thing I'll add is some kids see no reason to go out for the HS team if they don't play on a travel team or get private instruction during the offseason.
 
I've Shared this MANY times on here but figured ill do it again

I think Parents get wrapped up in "travel" ball vs "select" vs "rec"

True "travel" baseball is a VERY slim # of kids IMO. The ones traveling coast to coast playing in the big premier events is "travel" baseball.

SELECT baseball is what has killed the sport. SELECT baseball is far from that now days. It more falls down to the fact if you have $2,000+ dollars for your son to play on Team X they will get offered a spot. and typically those teams fund the Bigger teams within that organization.
Your SELECT team may travel out of town 1-2 times within the summer for a florida trip or trip to Ship yard or somewhere like that , but this doesnt make your sons team a "travel" baseball team.

Rec baseball is OK to play , its for the lower level kids , ones whom have no intention on playing other than those 10-15 games in the spring/summer with some buddies and still getting to play.

The town I am from has had a TON of baseball history. We've prided our selves on our youth/Middle school still acting as feeder to the HS.
 
I've Shared this MANY times on here but figured ill do it again

I think Parents get wrapped up in "travel" ball vs "select" vs "rec"

True "travel" baseball is a VERY slim # of kids IMO. The ones traveling coast to coast playing in the big premier events is "travel" baseball.

SELECT baseball is what has killed the sport. SELECT baseball is far from that now days. It more falls down to the fact if you have $2,000+ dollars for your son to play on Team X they will get offered a spot. and typically those teams fund the Bigger teams within that organization.
Your SELECT team may travel out of town 1-2 times within the summer for a florida trip or trip to Ship yard or somewhere like that , but this doesnt make your sons team a "travel" baseball team.

Rec baseball is OK to play , its for the lower level kids , ones whom have no intention on playing other than those 10-15 games in the spring/summer with some buddies and still getting to play.

The town I am from has had a TON of baseball history. We've prided our selves on our youth/Middle school still acting as feeder to the HS.
I agree with this to a large degree. Playing select ball at 8u is silly. I would keep playing rec ball through ten at least. But the biggest issue with youth baseball is that they just don't practice enough on individual, group and team skills. Team batting practice is boring. Not enough infield practice. Not enough bullpen work with a coach who now what he is doing. Etc.. Etc. Basically not enough good practice and too few games in rec ball. Not enough practice and too many games in select ball. Basically not enough practice. Also there are too many clubs in SWO who think they are travel clubs but the depth of quality players is low.
 
I agree with this to a large degree. Playing select ball at 8u is silly. I would keep playing rec ball through ten at least. But the biggest issue with youth baseball is that they just don't practice enough on individual, group and team skills. Team batting practice is boring. Not enough infield practice. Not enough bullpen work with a coach who now what he is doing. Etc.. Etc. Basically not enough good practice and too few games in rec ball. Not enough practice and too many games in select ball. Basically not enough practice. Also there are too many clubs in SWO who think they are travel clubs but the depth of quality players is low.
I agree on practicing more doing drills ect ect. I am SUPER blessed that one of my asst coaches (non parent) is the SID at MSJ University and we get access to their brand new indoor facilities each week and also our pitching coach is an ex major leaguer who has 45+ years playing and coaching experience. Our group of 13 year Olds are truly lucky!
 
I agree on practicing more doing drills ect ect. I am SUPER blessed that one of my asst coaches (non parent) is the SID at MSJ University and we get access to their brand new indoor facilities each week and also our pitching coach is an ex major leaguer who has 45+ years playing and coaching experience. Our group of 13 year Olds are truly lucky!
Good objective coaching in youth baseball is hard to find. Good for you!
 
Good objective coaching in youth baseball is hard to find. Good for you!
I let my son choose his route....
The past 4 years he has played a year up with his grade of kids....
He is a left handledpitcher / of'er

Not a stud by any means .... has 3 pretty good pitches, handles the bat well , bunts well ....solid contact .... OK outfielder/arm.

He has always been a "role" kid on the team he was on. Relief pitcher / non league games/ rotating OF'er.

He told me he wanted to play more this year prior to HS so we built our own team and I put our coaching staff together based on what we needed and it worked out great for us. Hell I didn't even evaluate the kids at our tryouts. I had 3 guys whom I know well that know baseball that came and evaluated kids for me and basically picked or kids.

Too many dads/parents push their kids to be something they aren't or do something they don't enjoy then you see the burn out happen.

My kid isn't playing in the MLB and most likely won't hit another baseball after his senior year, but I wanted him to pick his path
 
I agree that a large part of the problem is the youth system coming up. I also think that scheduling JV and Varsity games on the same day is a problem. There are a lot of kids playing varsity innings who would be getting time on the mound at the JV level. When I see JV games getting canceled because "we just don't have enough pitching" it drives me crazy.
 
I agree that a large part of the problem is the youth system coming up. I also think that scheduling JV and Varsity games on the same day is a problem. There are a lot of kids playing varsity innings who would be getting time on the mound at the JV level. When I see JV games getting canceled because "we just don't have enough pitching" it drives me crazy.
Even if you wanted them to play on different days, there's just not enough days in the season for that to happen. And if you have an arm shortage, varsity and JV playing on different days doesn't fix that.
 
I agree that a large part of the problem is the youth system coming up. I also think that scheduling JV and Varsity games on the same day is a problem. There are a lot of kids playing varsity innings who would be getting time on the mound at the JV level. When I see JV games getting canceled because "we just don't have enough pitching" it drives me crazy.
With the massive shortage of umpires, we have asked many local high schools to try to schedule JV/Varsity DH on the same day (those with lights, turf, etc) and agree among coaches to end JV after 6 innings or two hours. They were actually very excited at this ask (I think they were waiting for someone else to bring it up) and said one of their reasons for wanting it is exactly what you mentioned. It's especially true in places where the schools are quite far apart. We also suggested stopping Varsity at home for SB and BB and JV away, and doing all baseball at home and softball away where fields permit. Umpires have liked it thus far as the get two games in a night and save on a bit of travel. While it won't stop the arm shortage, it does leave a few more options out there within the confines of the OHSAA rules on sports.
 
With the massive shortage of umpires, we have asked many local high schools to try to schedule JV/Varsity DH on the same day (those with lights, turf, etc) and agree among coaches to end JV after 6 innings or two hours. They were actually very excited at this ask (I think they were waiting for someone else to bring it up) and said one of their reasons for wanting it is exactly what you mentioned. It's especially true in places where the schools are quite far apart. We also suggested stopping Varsity at home for SB and BB and JV away, and doing all baseball at home and softball away where fields permit. Umpires have liked it thus far as the get two games in a night and save on a bit of travel. While it won't stop the arm shortage, it does leave a few more options out there within the confines of the OHSAA rules on sports.

I haven't looked up what the game/inning restrictions are on individual players, but we had 3 kids who were part-time position players at the varsity level who could have pitched in the JV games. It seemed like the only time they got innings on the varsity team were against bad teams that were lucky to make contact. At the same time, there were two or three seniors on the varsity who never got to pitch because they weren't good enough to throw in important games and the cripple games on the schedule went to the freshmen/sophomores who could have thrown in the JV games if they weren't being played at the same time.

Full disclosure: I grew up in a town with a lighted baseball field and bad spring weather where double-headers were the norm due to the compressed schedule.
 
I haven't looked up what the game/inning restrictions are on individual players, but we had 3 kids who were part-time position players at the varsity level who could have pitched in the JV games. It seemed like the only time they got innings on the varsity team were against bad teams that were lucky to make contact. At the same time, there were two or three seniors on the varsity who never got to pitch because they weren't good enough to throw in important games and the cripple games on the schedule went to the freshmen/sophomores who could have thrown in the JV games if they weren't being played at the same time.

Full disclosure: I grew up in a town with a lighted baseball field and bad spring weather where double-headers were the norm due to the compressed schedule.
I am 97.6% certain there is no inning limit. It is pitch count restrictions and total number of games per day (2 max).
 
Even if you wanted them to play on different days, there's just not enough days in the season for that to happen. And if you have an arm shortage, varsity and JV playing on different days doesn't fix that.

It does when the freshman and sophomores who are splitting time in LF or 2B would be pitching/catching in a JV game the next day and the seniors who split time with them would be getting innings against the bad teams on your schedule. More innings would benefit everyone down the road, IMO.
 
He was referring to basketball, but my buddy used to say that you kill your HS numbers when you try to pick your varsity team when the kids are only in 7th grade.

The other thing I'll add is some kids see no reason to go out for the HS team if they don't play on a travel team or get private instruction during the offseason.
7th Grade!! I wish they waited that long. These basketball programs are doing that in 3rd and 4th grade now. And the ones that don’t put together “elite teams” or that make thier “elite players” slum it in a “rec league” with thier friends and classmates who did not mature early or hire a private coach are chastised for not being competitive enough. It’s sad. Baseball is doing much the same.
 
We have freshman and JV this year. We don't usually have a freshman team and there are only about 5 freshmen teams in the area, but most everybody has a JV team.
 
There's many factors to the decline of high school baseball JV teams and it's not just baseball. I think many sports are struggling to field JV/ freshman teams. Since this is the baseball thread, I'll attack this one.
"Local" or "House" teams are the backbone of your high school baseball programs. You have to get a group of kids at 8,9,10,11,12 years old and keep those kids together as long as you possibly can. Yes, you're going to lose a few as time goes on, but it's critical that you move the kids around at younger ages, get them experience in multiple positions so they can compete at the high school level.
One thing that happens in small communities it one or two of the "stars" of the age group leave the community and play exclusively for a travel or elite team. It's not necessarily wrong, but generally that kid's dad is probably "the guy" in the community that takes the time to put the teams together and work with the kids. So at age 10, this kid leaves, his Dad isn't going to coach kids who are not his and travel ball takes alot of time. So you have that separation right there. Those kids -- at age 10 -- if they walk away from baseball, you'll never get them back.

I would propose this for Ohio high school - or midwest states. Do not start the season until April 15th or later. At smaller schools especially, you are asking the same kids to play football from August -- December, right into basketball for 4 months, then go outside and play baseball in 35 degree weather in late March. Also, you have to extend the baseball season into June. It's insane to have a 3 month football season (4 for playoff teams), a 4 month basketball season then cram spring sports into 6 weeks. Unless a kid is dedicated baseball or track athlete, they are going to opt out of the spring sport.
 
There's many factors to the decline of high school baseball JV teams and it's not just baseball. I think many sports are struggling to field JV/ freshman teams. Since this is the baseball thread, I'll attack this one.
"Local" or "House" teams are the backbone of your high school baseball programs. You have to get a group of kids at 8,9,10,11,12 years old and keep those kids together as long as you possibly can. Yes, you're going to lose a few as time goes on, but it's critical that you move the kids around at younger ages, get them experience in multiple positions so they can compete at the high school level.
One thing that happens in small communities it one or two of the "stars" of the age group leave the community and play exclusively for a travel or elite team. It's not necessarily wrong, but generally that kid's dad is probably "the guy" in the community that takes the time to put the teams together and work with the kids. So at age 10, this kid leaves, his Dad isn't going to coach kids who are not his and travel ball takes alot of time. So you have that separation right there. Those kids -- at age 10 -- if they walk away from baseball, you'll never get them back.

I would propose this for Ohio high school - or midwest states. Do not start the season until April 15th or later. At smaller schools especially, you are asking the same kids to play football from August -- December, right into basketball for 4 months, then go outside and play baseball in 35 degree weather in late March. Also, you have to extend the baseball season into June. It's insane to have a 3 month football season (4 for playoff teams), a 4 month basketball season then cram spring sports into 6 weeks. Unless a kid is dedicated baseball or track athlete, they are going to opt out of the spring sport.

Yep. Travel ball just destroys baseball programs outside of the large suburban schools that have 20 travel kids in every grade.

As you said, the kids who leave for travel are often the ones whose dads would have coached rec and taught the other kids enough for them to play and have fun. They're also the kids who could pitch/catch/play 1B well enough to keep their rec team competitive. Even worse, some of those kids aren't good enough to pitch on the regular for their travel team so by the time they get to HS there's been no development and pretty soon you have games getting canceled because "we don't have enough pitching to play 3 JV games a week."
 
Yep. Travel ball just destroys baseball programs outside of the large suburban schools that have 20 travel kids in every grade.

As you said, the kids who leave for travel are often the ones whose dads would have coached rec and taught the other kids enough for them to play and have fun. They're also the kids who could pitch/catch/play 1B well enough to keep their rec team competitive. Even worse, some of those kids aren't good enough to pitch on the regular for their travel team so by the time they get to HS there's been no development and pretty soon you have games getting canceled because "we don't have enough pitching to play 3 JV games a week."
And adding to that, the silly new pitching rules that force about 75% of your roster that has to be able to pitch at sometime or another. You can't schedule 6-7 games a week and have 4-5 pitchers. We do it to ourselves.
 
And adding to that, the silly new pitching rules that force about 75% of your roster that has to be able to pitch at sometime or another. You can't schedule 6-7 games a week and have 4-5 pitchers. We do it to ourselves.

Probably more appropriate for youth games than high school age kids, but I'd love to see the rules changed to allow kids to pitch, be removed to another position or the bench, and then re-enter once to pitch again. I can't count the number of times I've seen a kid struggle with mechanics and be left out there to throw 40-50 pitches in an inning when he could be lifted when it's obvious he's struggling and then brought back in an inning or two later after a quick bullpen session with a coach. As with all youth sports, too much emphasis on winning meaningless games at the expense of development.
 
Probably more appropriate for youth games than high school age kids, but I'd love to see the rules changed to allow kids to pitch, be removed to another position or the bench, and then re-enter once to pitch again. I can't count the number of times I've seen a kid struggle with mechanics and be left out there to throw 40-50 pitches in an inning when he could be lifted when it's obvious he's struggling and then brought back in an inning or two later after a quick bullpen session with a coach. As with all youth sports, too much emphasis on winning meaningless games at the expense of development.
This is permitted in certain cases under NHFS rules.
 
One thing I'm noticing across multiple sports is that too many head coaches do not want to work with players that will likely never play a meaningful varsity game. They only want to work with the players that will help them win. IMO, this mindset is coming from travel sports. HS sports are not meant to be this way. Extra-curriculars are an extension of the classroom and if there is space available, any reasonable player should have a spot to play.

As one example, I know of a sport (not baseball) that has 36 travel ball players and the HS is cutting down to around 24 (Varsity/JV). That will leave 12 travel ball players cut and a few rec ball players. Those "extra" players are more than enough to field a JV B team. Schools should always have to field 3 teams if there is enough interest.
 
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