PAC 2022

You said the only possible reason IMO and that's Rittman getting so small that they go 8-man football.

Is the Rittman admin still consolidated with Orrville? I'm not against that but it's a sign of how small these schools are getting.

I do think 8-man football will become more of a thing in small school Ohio in the next 5-10-15 years.

Strasburg Tigers had like, what, 15 kids on the team this past year? Sebring is going 8-man. What was Aquinas down to? I've kept them out of the PAC conversation because....really?

We're very proud in Ohio with football but some of these schools have to go 8-man in the long term. IMO.
I would think in the IVC both Strasburg and TCC would be legit 8 man candidates and you could probably add Conotton Valley as well. It's definitely something where an 8-man league in this area is possible in the next 5-10 years.
 
Every school in the WCAL has tons of land that could someday be developed. I'd think Rittman and even morseo Chippewa would be candidates to experience that growth if development around Wadsworth ever spilled over the Wayne County line.

Norwayne's 9-11 headcounts over the years:
'08: 172 B, 157 G
'10: 177 B, 153 G
'12: 182 B, 167 G
'14: 151 B, 145 G
'16: 153 B, 194 G
'18: 146 B, 186 G
'21: 183 B, 143 G

These are the headcounts for which the OHSAA determines divisional assignments for the 2 school years after the numbers were taken. For example, the '08 headcount was used to determine Norwayne's divisional assignments for the '09-'10 and '10-'11 school years.

Norwayne's total enrollment has remained fairly flat. However, other schools in the WCAL may be experiencing decreases in their enrollments that make it appear like Norwayne has grown. Many other districts in Ohio, especially those in highly urban and rural settings, have experienced decreases over the same time period.
Norwayne's K-2 classes all had fewer than 100 kids last year according to the ODE. They were the only 3 classes in the district under 100.
 
Norwayne's K-2 classes all had fewer than 100 kids last year according to the ODE. They were the only 3 classes in the district under 100.
So what you're saying is that Norwayne HS is not projected to grow in the next 5-10 years unless they accept a large number of students via open enrollment?
 
Perhaps someone else can refresh my memory, but didn't the PAC attempt to kick Coventry out in the mid to late '90s for becoming too big?
The mid-90s effort to oust Coventry was more about Mo Tipton and some of the "talent procurement" that he was alleged to have done. James Harrison is probably the best known name. Coventry eventually left the PAC on its own in 2005 for the newly formed PTC. At the time, Coventry said it had outgrown the league and that it was time to move on. There was always a rivalry between Coventry and Manchester, but the bad blood intensified over the way Coventry left. Manchester had lobbied hard for Coventry to join the league in 1989. Manchester administrators felt blindsided when Coventry announced its departure.
 
The mid-90s effort to oust Coventry was more about Mo Tipton and some of the "talent procurement" that he was alleged to have done. James Harrison is probably the best known name. Coventry eventually left the PAC on its own in 2005 for the newly formed PTC. At the time, Coventry said it had outgrown the league and that it was time to move on. There was always a rivalry between Coventry and Manchester, but the bad blood intensified over the way Coventry left. Manchester had lobbied hard for Coventry to join the league in 1989. Manchester administrators felt blindsided when Coventry announced its departure.
I look at the structure of the Metro Conference and I don't see a compelling reason for Coventry or any of the others to leave that 8-school league. Would they be compatible with the PAC? I think so but what's the burning motivation to leave the Metro. Maybe not taking buses out to Cloverleaf but that's not that bad to begin with.

If I was Manchester, I would either lobby to stay at 7 schools or add Mogadore. I wouldn't want a bus ride to Minerva.

If I was Tuslaw, I would either lobby to stay at 7 schools and be very open minded about Mogadore joining. I wouldn't want Minerva.

I think Minerva potentially brings Carrollton with them and it's best for everyone if Minerva and Carrollton stay in the EBC or go to the IVC. No offense to them.
 
I look at the structure of the Metro Conference and I don't see a compelling reason for Coventry or any of the others to leave that 8-school league. Would they be compatible with the PAC? I think so but what's the burning motivation to leave the Metro. Maybe not taking buses out to Cloverleaf but that's not that bad to begin with.

If I was Manchester, I would either lobby to stay at 7 schools or add Mogadore. I wouldn't want a bus ride to Minerva.

If I was Tuslaw, I would either lobby to stay at 7 schools and be very open minded about Mogadore joining. I wouldn't want Minerva.

I think Minerva potentially brings Carrollton with them and it's best for everyone if Minerva and Carrollton stay in the EBC or go to the IVC. No offense to them.
Coventry's motivation would be to join a league that give it a better opportunity to win league titles. They would be one of the bigger (the biggest?) school in the PAC as opposed to being an average size school in the Metro(?) What league title has Coventry won in the Metro since its existence?

Minerva doesn't bring Carrollton - that was Sandy Valley that wanted that. Minerva is floundering in the EBC and is desperately trying to make a change. They are looking to demand any stipulations to joining the league....
 
.... What league title has Coventry won in the Metro since its existence? ...
What football league titles has Coventry won in any league since it was in the Suburban League back in the 50s or 60s? They didn't win in the AOL or the PAC, or the PTC either.
 
What football league titles has Coventry won in any league since it was in the Suburban League back in the 50s or 60s? They didn't win in the AOL or the PAC, or the PTC either.
I totally agree - hence, it would make sense for them to want to be the big fish in the smaller pond right? And it's not just football...I don't see Coventry winning league titles in many sports at all....would give them a better shot across the board IMO
 
With some of the state finals being played today, it's making me miss watching some football on Fridays. Anyone want to talk about PAC football in 2023?

I'm excited to see what the freshman running back at CVCA will do in the coming season. Along with NW's talented group coming back. I think the major sleeper coming into 2023 is Orrville. Really excited for how this league with look a year from now. Who knows, maybe one of our leagues 8 teams will be fighting for a state appearance.
 
Tuslaw & Manchester to the WCAL? 0% chance.

We were just talking about this on our way home from our game last night. The only way the WCAL would ever change would be one of the following scenarios (however unlikely):
  1. Hillsdale leaves either (1) on their own terms, going to another conference with Loudonville, Crestview, etc. or (2) by being booted for being the only WCAL school not in Wayne County, in favor of a better geographical fit they already have lined up.
  2. Northwestern leaves for the same reason (#1) as Hillsdale, but much less likely since they are in Wayne County.
  3. Rittman gets booted cuz they're so small and... not very good in most sports.,
  4. Norwayne eventually outgrows the league.
In any of those cases, the first teams on the list would be (1) Triway and (2) Orrville, in no particular order. If both Hillsdale and Rittman left, plug in Triway and Orrville, and call it a day.

With all that said, I don't envision the WCAL changing in my lifetime. If I do, I think it's either #1 or #3 above. Not sure which is more likely. If #1, at least Hillsdale has other options. If #3, Rittman is kinda screwed with no other nearby conference that fits them, unless they beg to get into the IVC.
Triway had its chance in the WCAL, couldn't win and left, please do not talk about other schools not being good at sports and being booted, some just pick up their toys and go home when they weren't very good cough cough Triway
 
With some of the state finals being played today, it's making me miss watching some football on Fridays. Anyone want to talk about PAC football in 2023?

I'm excited to see what the freshman running back at CVCA will do in the coming season. Along with NW's talented group coming back. I think the major sleeper coming into 2023 is Orrville. Really excited for how this league with look a year from now. Who knows, maybe one of our leagues 8 teams will be fighting for a state appearance.
We're miles from that
 
With some of the state finals being played today, it's making me miss watching some football on Fridays. Anyone want to talk about PAC football in 2023?

I'm excited to see what the freshman running back at CVCA will do in the coming season. Along with NW's talented group coming back. I think the major sleeper coming into 2023 is Orrville. Really excited for how this league with look a year from now. Who knows, maybe one of our leagues 8 teams will be fighting for a state appearance.
An actual football post! Hooray.

I’m currently watching Canfield-Bloom Carroll. Heading to the 4th quarter with the Cardinals up 21-7. Broc Lowry is doing it all on offense, with three rushing touchdowns, a forced fumble and the leading tackler on defense, playing both ways. The Canfield offense reminds me of the CVCA offense in 2020 with Michael Bevington at the helm. But it doesn’t feature the complementary bruising back (Kyle Snider). But it’s good enough to be 12 minutes from a championship.

As an aside, the Spectrum production has been superb. However, they have missed three plays in this game coming back from commercials. Pet peeve. If you are going to run commercials, hold the play so we can see the game. Or here’s a thought. Just do it like soccer. Show it all and put the corporate logo in the corner.

Edit: As I posted this, they just came back from the third quarter break commercial and missed Lowry scoring his fourth touchdown.
 
You said the only possible reason IMO and that's Rittman getting so small that they go 8-man football.

Is the Rittman admin still consolidated with Orrville? I'm not against that but it's a sign of how small these schools are getting.

I do think 8-man football will become more of a thing in small school Ohio in the next 5-10-15 years.

Strasburg Tigers had like, what, 15 kids on the team this past year? Sebring is going 8-man. What was Aquinas down to? I've kept them out of the PAC conversation because....really?

We're very proud in Ohio with football but some of these schools have to go 8-man in the long term. IMO.
In a word? Yes.

The state regularly cycles how it will dole out funding, and it emphasized consolidating entire districts for quite a few years. Orrville/Dalton merger was fairly far along in planning years ago…and mostly because the admins were buds and sacked up before they lost the game of “not it!”

You’d be surprised how many districts in Wayne Co., technically, didn’t qualify for funding…And yet! They’re still around, with newly built (or building) schools. Weird where support and maneuvering comes from when the end is real, I guess. (Orrville taking on most of the county’s special needs/English as a 2nd language students-securing additional funding comes to mind)

The most likely scenario today? Rittman is completely absorbed into Orrville. The crossover roles have allowed them to stay above water, but at some point, I don’t see it as sustainable.

Rittman would no longer be a placeholder in the WCAL and Orrville’s enrollment would likely kick their numbers back up to a point where it’s not likely to be a fit in the WCAL. (Maintaining its believed superiority over the smaller plebes is also important)

At this point, it’s Triway or Tuslaw. And this is also the only way i actually see any changes coming. Attrition.

I like the WCAL with either Tuslaw or Triway. I really like the PAC with Mogadore if Triway lands in county. Garaway is a great get too, but it seems culturally miss placed in the PAC😂
 
"Garaway is a great get too, but it seems culturally miss placed in the PAC😂"

Yes, I'm not sure how Garaway would like The Ring of Fire, the old timers in the Elms golf course clubhouse, Koach's hot sauce or historical trips down the canal on the St. Helena II.

It takes a special type to get PAC admittance. As part of the initiation, a prospective school representative must sit next to an outspoken former Manchester girls BB coach and wife at Northwest Indian games and remain silent.
 
"Garaway is a great get too, but it seems culturally miss placed in the PAC😂"

Yes, I'm not sure how Garaway would like The Ring of Fire, the old timers in the Elms golf course clubhouse, Koach's hot sauce or historical trips down the canal on the St. Helena II.

It takes a special type to get PAC admittance. As part of the initiation, a prospective school representative must sit next to an outspoken former Manchester girls BB coach and wife at Northwest Indian games and remain silent.
This is possibly the post of the year in our award winning thread.
 
Hearing that Coventry, Springfield, Norton....any other Metro league school that was mentioned that I missed....is NOT interested in the open PAC spot. Word on the street is that the Metro league is having a meeting to discuss expansion. (Paging @cuyahogacuse and CVCA)
 
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Hearing that Coventry, Springfield, Norton....any other Metro league school that was mentioned that I missed....is NOT interested in the open PAC spot. Word on the street is that the Metro league is having a meeting to discuss expansion. (Paging @cuyahogacuse and CVCA)
I'm not surprised about either scenario. I can see CVCA in the Metro, but would they really want a 9-school league? Maybe Cloverleaf is flirting with another league? Cloverleaf is so far out in the middle of nowhere that it's as obscure as a Dennis Miller reference.
 
Rittman gets booted cuz they're so small and... not very good in most sports.,
Rittman decline happened several years ago when Rittman residents voted down a tax levy. The school threatened a total ban on all extra activities. The better football athletes transferred out and Rittman has never completely recovered. The coaching carousel has kept any chance at continuity from developing. As far as Triway joining the WCAL? They were a member at one time but opted out. Would there be any desire to invite them back in? Shreve was an original member and remained in the league as Triway when Triway was formed in 1963. Triway left the league in 1970. Neither Shreve nor Triway ever won a league championship in football as a member.
 
I'm not surprised about either scenario. I can see CVCA in the Metro, but would they really want a 9-school league? Maybe Cloverleaf is flirting with another league? Cloverleaf is so far out in the middle of nowhere that it's as obscure as a Dennis Miller reference.
I don't think the Metro is thinking of just adding 1 team.....to my knowledge, no school is looking to leave the Metro. I think you may see an attempt to create a 2 division league which will create all sorts of movement in the area. Think a miniature version of the Suburban League (which is an interesting comparison because I believe the small school division of the Suburban League will be in danger if this happens)
 
Out of curiosity, I looked up Cloverleaf's rival, Medina Buckeye and saw they are in the 12-school Great Lakes Conference. I thought for a brief moment The Leaf would want to join up with Buckeye, but it looks like the Great Lakes Conference is pretty set with 12 teams.

As for the Suburban League small school division, there is no question a few of those schools could be Metro candidates. Roosevelt, Tallmadge, and maybe Cuyahoga Falls (but that could doom CVCA in the metro). Cuyahoga Falls is 5-55 over the last 6 years. They're almost in Minerva territory.
 
Rittman decline happened several years ago when Rittman residents voted down a tax levy. The school threatened a total ban on all extra activities. The better football athletes transferred out and Rittman has never completely recovered. The coaching carousel has kept any chance at continuity from developing. As far as Triway joining the WCAL? They were a member at one time but opted out. Would there be any desire to invite them back in? Shreve was an original member and remained in the league as Triway when Triway was formed in 1963. Triway left the league in 1970. Neither Shreve nor Triway ever won a league championship in football as a member.
Passing levies is such a critical step for many small communities. Not just for facilities and extracurricular opportunities, but also the sentiment of simply having a community that supports its school(s) is a great feeling. If we didn't pass our levy a few years ago, my family was going elsewhere, so I get it.
 
Passing levies is such a critical step for many small communities. Not just for facilities and extracurricular opportunities, but also the sentiment of simply having a community that supports its school(s) is a great feeling. If we didn't pass our levy a few years ago, my family was going elsewhere, so I get it.
They won't have that down at Tuslaw. Added school taxes cut into the social security of the men at the bar in The Elms clubhouse. The good news, however, is there's a wealth of football knowledge in that clubhouse.....from the days of leather helmets.
 
News from PACountry is lacking PACtion. With holiday parties at the Elms Country Club clubhouse, cutbacks to the staffing of local media outlets, and Koach refining his hot sauce recipe in his Springfield Township bunker, things are quiet.

Is there any news that can be unveiled about our beloved PAC expansion process?

Could Stizo at least post a hot Yappi rumor?

Times like this are why we need the resurrection of the Canal Fulton Signal and Orrville Courier Crescent.
 
@thePITman: Wowsers. Did you see this coming?
I did not see it coming. But I know that Coach Brenner has two young children, so if anybody ever truly meant that as the reason for stepping down, it'd be him. Coaching a sport, especially football, requires so much time away from family, and it takes a toll on everyone involved. The unsung heroes are coaches' wives. They are all amazing.
 
News from PACountry is lacking PACtion. With holiday parties at the Elms Country Club clubhouse, cutbacks to the staffing of local media outlets, and Koach refining his hot sauce recipe in his Springfield Township bunker, things are quiet.

Is there any news that can be unveiled about our beloved PAC expansion process?

Could Stizo at least post a hot Yappi rumor?

Times like this are why we need the resurrection of the Canal Fulton Signal and Orrville Courier Crescent.
My picture was once in the Signal for a goat I helped raise. I'm sure everyone here has a copy. I will be happy to autograph them.
 
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