BelowTheLine
Well-known member
I'm not saying it would happen but I would love to see Lucas as a football only member. One of my favorite teams to watch online.
PAC 2022
- Thread starter the123kidz
- Start date
BelowTheLine
Well-known member
You know what would be ideal? If Minerva joined the IVC South.
That would allow the IVC North to add Conotton Valley in football and the league could get away from their crossover problem. Then, the IVC South and the PAC-7 could create an agreement to have their "7th team" play on their bye weeks.
Solves a lot of problems although I'm sure that'll never happen.
satoshi node
Active member
How about Minerva to the IVC and Garaway to the PAC?
thePITman
Well-known member
For Triway, it's the same drive as Mogadore; shorter drive than Minerva. But for Manchester, it's much longer than Mogadore, yet only 5 minutes longer than Minerva.
Competitive in most (if not all) sports.
Small enough in size that there isn't the threat of dominating in any sport over a long period of time, and big enough that they would field a team in all the PAC-7's sanctioned sports (I think).
I really, really like that.
Unfortunately, my guess is that they are really comfortable in the IVC where they have lots of natural rivals and great gates.
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
Absolutely. Garaway to PAC is solid gold. Of course it is also as likely to happen as the call back I’ve been waiting on from Cheryl Toegs about going to prom…
For Triway, it's the same drive as Mogadore; shorter drive than Minerva. But for Manchester, it's much longer than Mogadore, yet only 5 minutes longer than Minerva.
Competitive in most (if not all) sports.
Small enough in size that there isn't the threat of dominating in any sport over a long period of time, and big enough that they would field a team in all the PAC-7's sanctioned sports (I think).
I really, really like that.
Unfortunately, my guess is that they are really comfortable in the IVC where they have lots of natural rivals and great gates.
(for you youngsters, google that name + pink bikini. Wowza!)
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
If you'd want to add Garaway, I think you'd need to pull some other IVC teams with them so they keep some of those close by matchups. But as it's going, some of these IVC schools will be playing 8-man football in 5-10 years (Strasburg exhibit A), so will Garaway really want to hang around as TCC, Strasburg, etc., can barely field a team or go 8-man?
Garaway is an interesting school for discussion and Dutch Valley & the coo-coo clock are hot.
Garaway is an interesting school for discussion and Dutch Valley & the coo-coo clock are hot.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
I mean...I didn't turn it 180°. Your definition even says "without much doubt" - my statement was disputing that, saying that there would be plenty of doubt. Ergo, not 180°.
Stizostedion
Well-known member
Do not be surprised if the PAC loses two more schools. I am hearing Manchester and Tuslaw could be headed west in an expanded WCAL.
BelowTheLine
Well-known member
Garaway does not offer soccer and there is zero chance of them adding soccer. They also have struggled with some lower level teams. For example, they do not have jv girls' basketball this year and I believe only one MS combined girls basketball team.
For Triway, it's the same drive as Mogadore; shorter drive than Minerva. But for Manchester, it's much longer than Mogadore, yet only 5 minutes longer than Minerva.
Competitive in most (if not all) sports.
Small enough in size that there isn't the threat of dominating in any sport over a long period of time, and big enough that they would field a team in all the PAC-7's sanctioned sports (I think).
I really, really like that.
Unfortunately, my guess is that they are really comfortable in the IVC where they have lots of natural rivals and great gates.
Garaway hasn't been bad at much but they also haven't won very many league titles since the IVC expanded a few years ago. I think their total is 5 or 6 across all sports. Just for reference, Tusky Valley is in the 20s over that same span. My point being outside of football (and girls' golf) Garaway really hasn't been a very strong force in the IVC. Their boys' hoops team will be really good this year though.
But yeah, not much of a chance they are leaving the IVC.
BelowTheLine
Well-known member
None of the teams Garaway plays (outside of one forced crossover nobody wants) would be in that discussion. The ONLY team in the South that really has faced any type of numbers problem was Tusky Valley and that was mostly because of the rash of transfers a few years ago. Right now, everyone in the South has good numbers.
BelowTheLine
Well-known member
So let's go crazy then. That would leave Canton South, Northwest and Fairless as Stark County teams without a home. They could easily add Minerva and Carrollton to get to five. Would Orrville and Triway stay with that group hypothetically speaking?
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
The WCAL is one of the most stable 8 team leagues around. Why in the world would they expand? Do they want the recipe to Koach's hot sauce?
I'm not buying WCAL expansion with Tuslaw or Manchester or, really, anyone.
I'm not buying WCAL expansion with Tuslaw or Manchester or, really, anyone.
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
HAHAHAHA. That's flipping hilarious. WCAL teams cross out of Wayne Co once during league play when they go to Hillsdale. They find that acceptable because the Wayne/Ashland Co Line sign is nailed to an elm tree. The idea of them changing their league after 50 years to add a team in Stark & one in Summit is equivalent of Mother Theresa deciding to go bar hopping and ending up table dancing on her 75th birthday.
Thanks, Stizo. Needed a good laugh today.
CommonManDZ
Well-known member
I mean, I stopped saying anything was impossible when USC and UCLA joined the Big 10, but those are some random-weird teams for the WCAL to break five decades of stability for. Orrville? Sure, I would. I guess Tuslaw maaaaaaaaaybe….but Manchester? Why not St Thomas Aquinas or East Canton? About the same thing.
Unless this turns out to be true, then it’s totally possible.
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
Great comment on USC/UCLA. That was a shocker. The difference there is that was a HUGE financial impact to the schools (way more TV $) and the conference (expanded profile = more TV $).
Adding Triway & Orrville and splitting the league like the IVC with a bigger/not as big schools could make some sense but you'd have to get past the initial "why?" WCAL takes heat around the state for initiating the public-private conversation awhile back, but give any other mid to small school conference commissioner truth serum and they'd tell you their jealous of the WCALs makeup & stability.
All that said, it does fill in some dead time discussion topics for this thread. Could there be a conspiracy that Tuslaw dropped Dalton in non-conference play because they were about to join the WCAL?
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
The "Tuslaw to the WCAL" topic has been around since the 1970's. It was a popular story with some old timers.
The "story" from the old timers was that Tuslaw was turned down by the WCAL in the 70's because people in the WCAL feared that Tuslaw would grow too much, too big, and too fast as housing developments were happening back in the 70's in Tuslaw due to the steel industry in Massillon/Canton still being strong at the time.
"Another Jackson" was the thought as the formerly rural Jackson Township became a major suburban area. They used to think that would happen to Tuslaw. So the WCAL took Hillsdale instead of Tuslaw.
Of course the steel industry started to crater in the 80's and that was the end of Tuslaw seeing significant population growth.
The accuracy of this story is questionable, but that's what some old timers said.
Tuslaw is not joining the WCAL today. Willie Nelson will cut off his ponytail before that happens.
The "story" from the old timers was that Tuslaw was turned down by the WCAL in the 70's because people in the WCAL feared that Tuslaw would grow too much, too big, and too fast as housing developments were happening back in the 70's in Tuslaw due to the steel industry in Massillon/Canton still being strong at the time.
"Another Jackson" was the thought as the formerly rural Jackson Township became a major suburban area. They used to think that would happen to Tuslaw. So the WCAL took Hillsdale instead of Tuslaw.
Of course the steel industry started to crater in the 80's and that was the end of Tuslaw seeing significant population growth.
The accuracy of this story is questionable, but that's what some old timers said.
Tuslaw is not joining the WCAL today. Willie Nelson will cut off his ponytail before that happens.
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CasualFan24
Well-known member
I hear Medina, Mentor, St Ed's, Moeller, Ghahana Lincoln, and Dublin Scioto are all joining the WCAL also - it'll be a super conference divided into North/South divisions.
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
Don't forget Pickerington Central, Pickerington North, and Hilliard.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
No no no....you've got it all wrong - they're joining the PAC....
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
Wow! Pickerington in the PAC! Can they handle the Ring of Fire or the fire of Koach's hot sauce?
www.cantonrep.com
"When Jim France was head coach of the Manchester High School football team, his play calls were no secret.
They were the same plays the Panthers had run since the beginning of his nearly 50-year tenure. His players on those first teams could have stepped into the huddle several years ago and still recognized the plays. The same could be said for Manchester's opponents. They knew them so well that they could also run the plays themselves, but they couldn't stop them because Manchester executed them flawlessly.
Now, in retirement, it's a different story. France is not giving away his one special secret, so don't even bother asking.
It's his recipe for none other than hot sauce, which, judging by its popularity with about everyone who has ever tasted it, is about as good as his Manchester teams were.
"People try to get it from me all the time, but I won't tell them," he said. "The only people who know other than me are a few family members, and they're not saying, either."
--
I wonder if Koach is making an actual hot sauce like a Frank's Red Hot, Tabasco, etc., or is it a "hot sauce" in the Barberton tradition of a red pepper and rice side dish?
Former Manchester coach Jim France staying busy in retirement
The state's all-time winningest coach now onto the next chapter, including making his locally famous hot sauce
www.cantonrep.com
"When Jim France was head coach of the Manchester High School football team, his play calls were no secret.
They were the same plays the Panthers had run since the beginning of his nearly 50-year tenure. His players on those first teams could have stepped into the huddle several years ago and still recognized the plays. The same could be said for Manchester's opponents. They knew them so well that they could also run the plays themselves, but they couldn't stop them because Manchester executed them flawlessly.
Now, in retirement, it's a different story. France is not giving away his one special secret, so don't even bother asking.
It's his recipe for none other than hot sauce, which, judging by its popularity with about everyone who has ever tasted it, is about as good as his Manchester teams were.
"People try to get it from me all the time, but I won't tell them," he said. "The only people who know other than me are a few family members, and they're not saying, either."
--
I wonder if Koach is making an actual hot sauce like a Frank's Red Hot, Tabasco, etc., or is it a "hot sauce" in the Barberton tradition of a red pepper and rice side dish?
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CasualFan24
Well-known member
Slow sports period when the canton rep is publishing articles about a retired coaches hot sauce recipe....Wow! Pickerington in the PAC! Can they handle the Ring of Fire or the fire of Koach's hot sauce?
Former Manchester coach Jim France staying busy in retirement
The state's all-time winningest coach now onto the next chapter, including making his locally famous hot sauce
"When Jim France was head coach of the Manchester High School football team, his play calls were no secret.
They were the same plays the Panthers had run since the beginning of his nearly 50-year tenure. His players on those first teams could have stepped into the huddle several years ago and still recognized the plays. The same could be said for Manchester's opponents. They knew them so well that they could also run the plays themselves, but they couldn't stop them because Manchester executed them flawlessly.
Now, in retirement, it's a different story. France is not giving away his one special secret, so don't even bother asking.
It's his recipe for none other than hot sauce, which, judging by its popularity with about everyone who has ever tasted it, is about as good as his Manchester teams were.
"People try to get it from me all the time, but I won't tell them," he said. "The only people who know other than me are a few family members, and they're not saying, either."
--
I wonder if Koach is making an actual hot sauce like a Frank's Red Hot, Tabasco, etc., or is it a "hot sauce" in the Barberton tradition of a red pepper and rice side dish?
TopCat
Well-known member
Don't know for sure about the sauce, but I've had some of his pickled peppers and they are fantastic!Wow! Pickerington in the PAC! Can they handle the Ring of Fire or the fire of Koach's hot sauce?
Former Manchester coach Jim France staying busy in retirement
The state's all-time winningest coach now onto the next chapter, including making his locally famous hot sauce
"When Jim France was head coach of the Manchester High School football team, his play calls were no secret.
They were the same plays the Panthers had run since the beginning of his nearly 50-year tenure. His players on those first teams could have stepped into the huddle several years ago and still recognized the plays. The same could be said for Manchester's opponents. They knew them so well that they could also run the plays themselves, but they couldn't stop them because Manchester executed them flawlessly.
Now, in retirement, it's a different story. France is not giving away his one special secret, so don't even bother asking.
It's his recipe for none other than hot sauce, which, judging by its popularity with about everyone who has ever tasted it, is about as good as his Manchester teams were.
"People try to get it from me all the time, but I won't tell them," he said. "The only people who know other than me are a few family members, and they're not saying, either."
--
I wonder if Koach is making an actual hot sauce like a Frank's Red Hot, Tabasco, etc., or is it a "hot sauce" in the Barberton tradition of a red pepper and rice side dish?
As for this WCAL talk, I heard something similar about Tuslaw a few years back, but not Manchester. I would be surprised because the WCAL hasn't changed for decades, and has no reason to change. It could make sense if the WCAL is looking for more gate because Manchester and Tuslaw travel well, especially when both are winning. They'd also work from a size and competition standpoint. The WCAL would have to go to a staggered league schedule for football, similar to what the MAC does.
All of that said, I'd be surprised if both of those schools made that move.
thePITman
Well-known member
Tuslaw & Manchester to the WCAL? 0% chance.
We were just talking about this on our way home from our game last night. The only way the WCAL would ever change would be one of the following scenarios (however unlikely):
With all that said, I don't envision the WCAL changing in my lifetime. If I do, I think it's either #1 or #3 above. Not sure which is more likely. If #1, at least Hillsdale has other options. If #3, Rittman is kinda screwed with no other nearby conference that fits them, unless they beg to get into the IVC.
We were just talking about this on our way home from our game last night. The only way the WCAL would ever change would be one of the following scenarios (however unlikely):
- Hillsdale leaves either (1) on their own terms, going to another conference with Loudonville, Crestview, etc. or (2) by being booted for being the only WCAL school not in Wayne County, in favor of a better geographical fit they already have lined up.
- Northwestern leaves for the same reason (#1) as Hillsdale, but much less likely since they are in Wayne County.
- Rittman gets booted cuz they're so small and... not very good in most sports.,
- Norwayne eventually outgrows the league.
With all that said, I don't envision the WCAL changing in my lifetime. If I do, I think it's either #1 or #3 above. Not sure which is more likely. If #1, at least Hillsdale has other options. If #3, Rittman is kinda screwed with no other nearby conference that fits them, unless they beg to get into the IVC.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
Of those scenarios you've narrowed it down to, I'd say #1 is the most realistic. The other schools aren't going to kick a school to the curb that they can beat in most sports and who helps fill up the schedule. I'd say #4 would be more likely than #3 in that the rest of the WCAL schools could pull an end-around and all exit the league and leave Norwayne behind, a la what the NBC did to Louisville.
Perhaps someone else can refresh my memory, but didn't the PAC attempt to kick Coventry out in the mid to late '90s for becoming too big?
CommonManDZ
Well-known member
How is Norwayne’s enrollment trending? There is a lot of land out that way that could be yet developed. I hadn’t thought of that (Norwayne outgrowing the WCAL), but I suppose that’s entirely possible at some point.
The Infidel
Well-known member
Pretty sure too the last 10 years their enrollment like most schools in NE Ohio are trending slightly down
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
Every school in the WCAL has tons of land that could someday be developed. I'd think Rittman and even morseo Chippewa would be candidates to experience that growth if development around Wadsworth ever spilled over the Wayne County line.
Norwayne's 9-11 headcounts over the years:
'08: 172 B, 157 G
'10: 177 B, 153 G
'12: 182 B, 167 G
'14: 151 B, 145 G
'16: 153 B, 194 G
'18: 146 B, 186 G
'21: 183 B, 143 G
These are the headcounts for which the OHSAA determines divisional assignments for the 2 school years after the numbers were taken. For example, the '08 headcount was used to determine Norwayne's divisional assignments for the '09-'10 and '10-'11 school years.
Norwayne's total enrollment has remained fairly flat. However, other schools in the WCAL may be experiencing decreases in their enrollments that make it appear like Norwayne has grown. Many other districts in Ohio, especially those in highly urban and rural settings, have experienced decreases over the same time period.
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thePITman
Well-known member
Yes. Instead of "outgrow," I should have used the term "out-unshrink." LoL
Rich Kotite
Well-known member
You said the only possible reason IMO and that's Rittman getting so small that they go 8-man football.
Is the Rittman admin still consolidated with Orrville? I'm not against that but it's a sign of how small these schools are getting.
I do think 8-man football will become more of a thing in small school Ohio in the next 5-10-15 years.
Strasburg Tigers had like, what, 15 kids on the team this past year? Sebring is going 8-man. What was Aquinas down to? I've kept them out of the PAC conversation because....really?
We're very proud in Ohio with football but some of these schools have to go 8-man in the long term. IMO.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
Haha, "outlast" works, too.