Texas shooting timeline

utsherman said:
Right. Sounds like we need to hold the LEO's responsible for the awful decisions they made. I mean, it's on video. ?‍♂️
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I haven't followed the LEO response. Were they aware that all the children were dead?

What would the response be if they charged the school and the shooter kills more children?

Extremely difficult position they are in.
 
Tesoro said:
Libs hate cops and love criminals..remember?
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Unfortunately, when you see discussions like this your statement proves itself to be true. It's telltale when you look at the typcial leftist posters and how quick they post to condemn police.
 
multisportdad said:
I haven't followed the LEO response. Were they aware that all the children were dead?

What would the response be if they charged the school and the shooter kills more children?

Extremely difficult position they are in.
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Some of the eye-witness video have been troubling. In addition, some of the statements from LEO's has been confusing and disjointed. I don't envy their position to be sure, and clearly more information will come to light. But if I try to put myself in the shoes of those parents, I'm not satisfied with the response.
 
utsherman said:
Some of the eye-witness video have been troubling. In addition, some of the statements from LEO's has been confusing and disjointed. I don't envy their position to be sure, and clearly more information will come to light. But if I try to put myself in the shoes of those parents, I'm not satisfied with the response.
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I won't disagree with you here. What's even more troubling is that media complicates this whole issue because they are so quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story. Someone has stated that the police may have been under the impression they were dealing with a hostage situation at some point not an active shooter. True or not, trying to pass judgement without know all the facts is wrong and just makes the tragedy more complicated to decipher. Because of the way media is covering this you now have too many people going into CYA mode and the truth will be more difficult to uncover and slower to come out.
 
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MoeDude said:
I won't disagree with you here. What's even more troubling is that media complicates this whole issue because they are so quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story. Someone has stated that the police may have been under the imp0ression they were dealing with a hostage situation at some point not an active shooter. True or not, trying to pass judgement without know all the facts is wrong and just makes the tragedy more complicated to decipher. Because of the way media is covering this you now have too many people going into CYA mode and the truth will be more difficult to uncover and slower to come out.
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Agreed. The media barrage doesn't make it any easier. Most want to be the first to report something, or break news. I'm primarily trying to look at this through the lens of a parent with a child in elementary school - which I do IRL.
 
MoeDude said:
I won't disagree with you here. What's even more troubling is that media complicates this whole issue because they are so quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story. Someone has stated that the police may have been under the imp0ression they were dealing with a hostage situation at some point not an active shooter. True or not, trying to pass judgement without know all the facts is wrong and just makes the tragedy more complicated to decipher. Because of the way media is covering this you now have too many people going into CYA mode and the truth will be more difficult to uncover and slower to come out.
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ITA - unfortunately, we all fall in that trap as we search the internet and other media for information once we hear about a tragedy like this. Everyone's trying to get updates out, but unfortunately, much of it ends up being incorrect.
 
Orin Swift said:
Of course it does. That doesn’t mean these LEOs aren’t responsible for allowing additional people to be killed/hurt by their inaction. Both things can be true at the same time. Why are you trying to paint it as if they can’t?
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I agree that, with what we know, the police response definitely could have been better.
 
It's being reported that the door that the murderer used to enter the building was propped open by a teacher
 
bigkat said:
i call on schools, doors are not left open at least in Ohio, to get fresh air in the schools.... maybe back in the 70's and 80's but not in todays enviroment.... there is only one point of entry to get in schools now a days...
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This is not true. Delphos St John's continually left all sets of doors open during the warmer months at the beginning and end of the school year because the entire building, save for 2 rooms in the high school, does not have air conditioning.
 
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BlueJayFan said:
This is not true. Delphos St John's continually left all sets of doors open during the warmer months at the beginning and end of the school year because the entire building, save for 2 rooms in the high school, do not have air conditioning.
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But they had you there ??
 
frecriss said:
Come to the realization that the responsibility of the crime lies with the criminal. What about Buffalo and Waukesha, who are you blaming there?
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These are two separate judgments. In regard to the murderous dbags who perpetrated all the tragedies that you reference, blame should lie solely with them. Then there's the responsibility of the response to said tragedies. If you just listened to the presser, they have admitted fault in making the wrong decision regarding a breach. So...
 
utsherman said:
These are two separate judgments. In regard to the murderous dbags who perpetrated all the tragedies that you reference, blame should lie solely with them. Then there's the responsibility of the response to said tragedies. If you just listened to the presser, they have admitted fault in making the wrong decision regarding a breach. So...
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I dont disagree.
 
Tesoro said:
put yourself in their situation. Shooter inside a room..one entrance...what advantage could you or do you have? None. Walk through the door...yer dead.

Sadly, I doubt many or any could have been saved. Shooting a child with a high powered rifle? Horrendous injury.
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They claim they were pulling kids out of windows. Did these two classroom not have any windows? Law enforcement could come in the building and have numbers on each side of the doors. They would have body armor. Police break into locked doors all the time. What possible kind of a barricade could a 18 year old punk kid set up from inside a classroom? Serve and protect? Isn't that law enforcement job? Shouldn't they be trying to draw the fire away from the innocent victims who have no way of protecting themselves? Strength in numbers and surely they have some kind of training to do their job.
 
Tesoro said:
Sadly, I doubt many or any could have been saved. Shooting a child with a high powered rifle? Horrendous injury.
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There were injured that were taken to the hospital. Even if only one more could have been saved, it is a life worth saving.

"In total, Uvalde Memorial Hospital received 15 patients, he said. Eleven of them were children, and four of those were transferred to other locations in San Antonio. Seven were discharged and sent home. Of the four adults received, one was transferred to a San Antonio hospital and three were discharged and sent home.

Nordwick said some of the patients received scatter or fragment wounds, though he couldn’t say what caused the wounds. Those who were injured more significantly had to be transferred to San Antonio hospitals."
 
bob99 said:
They claim they were pulling kids out of windows. Did these two classroom not have any windows? Law enforcement could come in the building and have numbers on each side of the doors. They would have body armor. Police break into locked doors all the time. What possible kind of a barricade could a 18 year old punk kid set up from inside a classroom? Serve and protect? Isn't that law enforcement job? Shouldn't they be trying to draw the fire away from the innocent victims who have no way of protecting themselves? Strength in numbers and surely they have some kind of training to do their job.
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There definitely would have been some dead cops...

Being brave all sounds great, until you have to face the overwhelming possibility of being killed.

what if he grabs a kid and uses them as a shield?

All kinds of bad outcomes here. Ultimately, i don't think the ending to this story could have changed much.
 
Tesoro said:
There definitely would have been some dead cops...

Being brave all sounds great, until you have to face the overwhelming possibility of being killed.

what if he grabs a kid and uses them as a shield?

All kinds of bad outcomes here. Ultimately, i don't think the ending to this story could have changed much.
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It comes with the job. If you are not willing to take the risk, find a different occupation. I would hope the officers are more familiar and better trained than the shooter with their weapons. No reason there would have "definitely" been some dead cops.
If the shooter is using a kid for a shield, he isn't shooting anyone else. A fast and forceful reaction could have changed the results. The shooter had time to methodically kill. There were no imminent threat to him for an hour.
 
I'm concerned about how quickly many are turning on the cops. If this was a bomb, no one would question the police for waiting for the proper people and equipment to show up to deactivate the bomb. Even if the bomb went off and killed innocents, no one would expect an untrained policeman to try to diffuse the bomb just to get his own head blown off and still have the innocents killed.

They said that 100s of rounds went off in the first two minutes. My own thought process is guessing that the police felt no one was left alive in that classroom. It would make no sense to try and break down the door only to get many police shot in the doorway as they tried to enter. It sounds like they thought he had barricaded himself in there to have a final assault on anyone coming in to get him.

The police may have done wrong but it's tough seeing all these people saying they didn't do their job when we still don't know exactly what was going inside that building. Many more details are needed before throwing these police under the bus.

The one thing we do know is that back door should not have been open.
 
Yappi said:
I'm concerned about how quickly many are turning on the cops. If this was a bomb, no one would question the police for waiting for the proper people and equipment to show up to deactivate the bomb. Even if the bomb went off and killed innocents, no one would expect an untrained policeman to try to diffuse the bomb just to get his own head blown off and still have the innocents killed.

They said that 100s of rounds went off in the first two minutes. My own thought process is guessing that the police felt no one was left alive in that classroom. It would make no sense to try and break down the door only to get many police shot in the doorway as they tried to enter. It sounds like they thought he had barricaded himself in there to have a final assault on anyone coming in to get him.

The police may have done wrong but it's tough seeing all these people saying they didn't do their job when we still don't know exactly what was going inside that building. Many more details are needed before throwing these police under the bus.

The one thing we do know is that back door should not have been open.
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The one thing we need is an honest account of what occurred. It is hard to pass judgment without all the facts. Too many things we thought we knew turned out to be false. Welcome to the media in the 21st century. It would be wrong for the police to assume no one were left alive in the classrooms. It is known now, that was not the case. It is their job to eliminate the threat as soon as possible. They definitely made the wrong decision. I am sure they all had active shooter training.
 
bob99 said:
The one thing we need is an honest account of what occurred. It is hard to pass judgment without all the facts. Too many things we thought we knew turned out to be false. Welcome to the media in the 21st century. It would be wrong for the police to assume no one were left alive in the classrooms. It is known now, that was not the case. It is their job to eliminate the threat as soon as possible. They definitely made the wrong decision. I am sure they all had active shooter training.
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It's hard for me to fathom that 15+ LEO's were outside of the door, but failed to breach whilst waiting for a key. ?
 
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