How does your HS program cut players?

G

GCPRO

Well-known member
Just curious how the HS programs in the state deliver the news, providing you have enough kids to do so? I found out over the weekend that our HS program sends the kids an email which seems rather chickenshot.
 
 
GCPRO said:
Just curious how the HS programs in the state deliver the news, providing you have enough kids to do so? I found out over the weekend that our HS program sends the kids an email which seems rather chickenshot.
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I've only been a part of a program one season, in a different sport.

End of practice ready to do conditioning. Coach states when I tap your shoulder...run halfway laps.


Those he did not tap he spoke to in private as we all ran out arses off.
 
Recently, I've seen two different approaches.

1. Bring in players individually after the end of tryout and tell them if they made the team or not. Seemed like a good idea until the cut kids had to go back into the room with the kids who made the team.

2. Each player received an envelope and instructed to open after they get into their cars or get home. The envelopes contained "Welcome to Varsity", "Welcome to JV", "Welcome to Freshmen team", or "Sorry, you did not make the team this year." A couple other paragraphs to depending on their outcome of what comes next.

Getting cut is devastating but approach #2 is much more compassionate.
 
I started my career being allowed to post rosters and the kids had to wait 24 hours then they could come talk to the staff.

Then it turned into their parents being allowed to come which led for some coaches on multiple occasions needing a district administrator there for protection.

As of 2015, it was a required meeting with the player where they got a written assessment of their abilities, recommendations to improve, and other options for the sport. They had time to ask questions.

The last way was arduous, and players could opt out, but I will say it made me more understanding of the plight of a cut kid. They gave it their all for three-four-five days, they should get a few minutes of your time.

The hard part was when you had way more kids than spots and you had to be creative when telling a kid who had dozens of things holding him back why he didnt make it.
 
Yappi said:
Recently, I've seen two different approaches.

1. Bring in players individually after the end of tryout and tell them if they made the team or not. Seemed like a good idea until the cut kids had to go back into the room with the kids who made the team.

2. Each player received an envelope and instructed to open after they get into their cars or get home. The envelopes contained "Welcome to Varsity", "Welcome to JV", "Welcome to Freshmen team", or "Sorry, you did not make the team this year." A couple other paragraphs to depending on their outcome of what comes next.

Getting cut is devastating but approach #2 is much more compassionate.
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I've seen this one used across multiple sports where roster cuts in some way shape or form had to be made. Yes, it is far more humane IMO.
 
umpire16 said:
I started my career being allowed to post rosters and the kids had to wait 24 hours then they could come talk to the staff.

Then it turned into their parents being allowed to come which led for some coaches on multiple occasions needing a district administrator there for protection.

As of 2015, it was a required meeting with the player where they got a written assessment of their abilities, recommendations to improve, and other options for the sport. They had time to ask questions.

The last way was arduous, and players could opt out, but I will say it made me more understanding of the plight of a cut kid. They gave it their all for three-four-five days, they should get a few minutes of your time.

The hard part was when you had way more kids than spots and you had to be creative when telling a kid who had dozens of things holding him back why he didnt make it.
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We had a district athletic director maybe 10 years ago who required every sport at every school that made cuts to do exactly this.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
We had a district athletic director maybe 10 years ago who required every sport at every school that made cuts to do exactly this.
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I actually didn't mind it. I was a bit notetaker anyway, and being able to articulate this information made me better with articulation to the actual team.

But I was also single with no kids and was at the school from 6am-10/11pm every night and most of the weekend, so to say, "I had the time." Couldn't imagine it now with a family.
 
I no longer coach, and when I did, thankfully I coached wrestling where wrestle-off's decided the starters so there was no judgment and parents could not come at me about it; but my son just tried out and made the freshman team at his HS. Coaches pulled kids in individually and told them their status and what they could work on. They did blocks of times for groups of 5 - 10 so it wasn't a big cluster....my son and a handful of others were given a 45 min window, and everyone who tried out had a block of time, so at any given time there weren't many people present "waiting around" and they were to leave right after meeting with coaches.
 
GCPRO said:
Just curious how the HS programs in the state deliver the news, providing you have enough kids to do so? I found out over the weekend that our HS program sends the kids an email which seems rather chickenshot.
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The only positive I see from an email is if it comes later, after a face-to-face, and it spells out what the boy needs to work on to improve if he's coming back to try again next year. I would imagine kids being angry or rattled and therefore maybe not retaining the details of a verbally-delivered player evaluation in one hearing.

But "Go home and we'll email you whether to return tomorrow"? That's a punk move in my book. That goes against everything "baseball" from every coach in my kids' past experinces that I value. The good coaches taught the boys to speak to umpires and each other respectfully. Don't have your Daddy advocate for you, look me in the eye and speak your piece. Man-style.

That has to be a two-way street, right ?
 
thavoice said:
I've only been a part of a program one season, in a different sport.

End of practice ready to do conditioning. Coach states when I tap your shoulder...run halfway laps.


Those he did not tap he spoke to in private as we all ran out arses off.
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I like it.

Our HS's indoor facilities sharing arrangements with all sports/genders during tryout times have the coaches there all hours. Just the same, even with a young family and a 35 minute drive home, I think our HC has always had individual meetings. I know he always had individual exit meetings at season-end. Same with my favorite summer coach. I sometimes disagreed with both coaches' baseball decisions in game, but both showed up every day as young men that love the game, the younger players, and the opportunity to lead them. My boys were very fortunate to play where they did, in hindsight.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
We had a district athletic director maybe 10 years ago who required every sport at every school that made cuts to do exactly this.
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The least common denominator parents must be a real joy, huh ? I've always heard parental grumblings of favoritism, for a full range of theories from maybe to delusional, at cuts or V/JV assignments, but thankfully all the really nutty parents have been on the other foul line.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
The only positive I see from an email is if it comes later, after a face-to-face, and it spells out what the boy needs to work on to improve if he's coming back to try again next year. I would imagine kids being angry or rattled and therefore maybe not retaining the details of a verbally-delivered player evaluation in one hearing.

But "Go home and we'll email you whether to return tomorrow"? That's a punk move in my book. That goes against everything "baseball" from every coach in my kids' past experinces that I value. The good coaches taught the boys to speak to umpires and each other respectfully. Don't have your Daddy advocate for you, look me in the eye and speak your piece. Man-style.

That has to be a two-way street, right ?
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I've only done it face to face and I spoke with each student-athlete, both the ones that were kept and those that weren't. We also never ended tryouts until we had a day or two outside.
I wasn't being critical of the email, to each their own. Just curious what other programs did. Back when i played it was a sheet on the bulletin board. I always thought the effort of showing up for workouts demanded more than a sheet of paper with names on it and yes my name was not on it as a freshman.
 
GCPRO said:
I've only done it face to face and I spoke with each student-athlete, both the ones that were kept and those that weren't. We also never ended tryouts until we had a day or two outside.
I wasn't being critical of the email, to each their own. Just curious what other programs did. Back when i played it was a sheet on the bulletin board. I always thought the effort of showing up for workouts demanded more than a sheet of paper with names on it and yes my name was not on it as a freshman.
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This is interesting. Can I ask why?

There are kids who look like dynamite in a gym/cage who struggle to look the same once outside on a diamond and against live pitching and vice versa.

When I played whoever made the team appeared on a list on coach's office door. This was before crazy arse parents and snowflake kids so it worked just fine.

I agree with talking to each kid individually and really like an exit interview for each kid explaining strengths and weaknesses and what to work on in the off season.
 
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Buddy coaches one of the more successful local programs. He has three really good classes in a row at the moment and cuts were difficult. He actually cut kids who would have started and excelled on his team just five years ago. However, with more talent comes more egos and more crazy arse dads. He brings in two really good sophomore arms who would be instant varsity on most programs and explains how they will get a shot on varisty early, pitching wise, but since they will get limited swings due to excellent depth they will probably bounce back down to JV from time to time to get at bats. The one kid balks and says he needs to be assured a varsity spot full-time or he transfers. I'd a flipped the desk and made a scene. My buddy handled it well, talked to the crazy dad and the kid the next day and calmer heads prevailed.

I feel for any baseball coach in today's world. The majority of dads are swing doctors and pitching gurus. In talking to some local coaches they will tell you that they do not even work with certain kids on mechanics because it is a waste of time. These are the kids looking at dad in the on deck circle and getting pitching tips from him between innings.
 
GCPRO said:
I've only done it face to face and I spoke with each student-athlete, both the ones that were kept and those that weren't. We also never ended tryouts until we had a day or two outside.
I wasn't being critical of the email, to each their own. Just curious what other programs did. Back when i played it was a sheet on the bulletin board. I always thought the effort of showing up for workouts demanded more than a sheet of paper with names on it and yes my name was not on it as a freshman.
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Me, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I have to say that myself, my siblings, and my offspring have never been cut. I honestly never paid much attention from that perspective. In coaching, I’ve always been the assistant because I never wanted to get in the first line of communication with other parents, and only wanted to help kids improve, and that was almost always in a no-cut situation anyway. My experience is kind of limited, but I can imagine how I’d feel if I had struggled athletically, because I’ve had other personal struggles of my own.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Buddy coaches one of the more successful local programs. He has three really good classes in a row at the moment and cuts were difficult. He actually cut kids who would have started and excelled on his team just five years ago. However, with more talent comes more egos and more crazy arse dads. He brings in two really good sophomore arms who would be instant varsity on most programs and explains how they will get a shot on varisty early, pitching wise, but since they will get limited swings due to excellent depth they will probably bounce back down to JV from time to time to get at bats. The one kid balks and says he needs to be assured a varsity spot full-time or he transfers. I'd a flipped the desk and made a scene. My buddy handled it well, talked to the crazy dad and the kid the next day and calmer heads prevailed.

I feel for any baseball coach in today's world. The majority of dads are swing doctors and pitching gurus. In talking to some local coaches they will tell you that they do not even work with certain kids on mechanics because it is a waste of time. These are the kids looking at dad in the on deck circle and getting pitching tips from him between innings.
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It always amazes me when parents feel that the dynamics of summer baseball should be imposed universally onto school ball.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
It always amazes me when parents feel that the dynamics of summer baseball should be imposed universally onto school ball.
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Bingo, and they compete with their summer baseball teammates in terms of "who is better." Since most HS programs are not equal a better kid might be on JV or play out of position in a deeper program whereas a less talented kid might be run up to varsity as a freshman at lessor program. Is all the parents hear is "varsity" and "JV." They all want to brag to their summer ball comrade parents that their kid is killing it on "varsity."
 
irish_buffalo said:
Bingo, and they compete with their summer baseball teammates in terms of "who is better." Since most HS programs are not equal a better kid might be on JV or play out of position in a deeper program whereas a less talented kid might be run up to varsity as a freshman at lessor program. Is all the parents hear is "varsity" and "JV." They all want to brag to their summer ball comrade parents that their kid is killing it on "varsity."
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Always cringe when hearing about the next up and coming can't miss stud who struggles to hit .300 with no speed or power in high school. Or the pitcher who "throws high 80's", but somehow only gets about 1/2 of a strikeout an inning and never gets any swings and misses. (Hint that he doesn't throw high 80's.)

There seems to be a lot of kids who are "over sold" at a young age instead of focusing on improving their skill and enjoying the game.

The program I played for had a lot of guys drafted and even more had successful careers in college. There was very little talk about who was getting recruited - it was secondary to improving and playing the game. Most dads knew next to nothing about the game and were just fans.

Now that everyone is the next Mike Trout far fewer players end up having a successful four year career at any level of college let alone get drafted.

It was also rare that a soph. played varsity. A majority of the guys who got drafted didn't play varsity until they were juniors.

Oh and players were cut by looking at a list on the locker room door.
 
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irish_buffalo said:
Bingo, and they compete with their summer baseball teammates in terms of "who is better." Since most HS programs are not equal a better kid might be on JV or play out of position in a deeper program whereas a less talented kid might be run up to varsity as a freshman at lessor program. Is all the parents hear is "varsity" and "JV." They all want to brag to their summer ball comrade parents that their kid is killing it on "varsity."
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When a kid plays varsity, JV or freshman has as much to do with school size, player position, who is older at his position, and team injury report as anything else "controlable", like actual player talent.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
When a kid plays varsity, JV or freshman has as much to do with school size, player position, who is older at his position, and team injury report as anything else "controlable", like actual player talent.
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The kicker is when the parents complain about their kid being "stuck on the JV team" and then complain when Defiance or some other powerhouse program has juniors on their JV team and it's unfair to have to play them.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I agree with talking to each kid individually and really like an exit interview for each kid explaining strengths and weaknesses and what to work on in the off season.
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That is a good policy.

Although it is in the minority, I am starting see more and more coaches that don't want to be bothered with players who are not finished products. A coach is doing their job and making the program better when they explain to a player what they need to work on to make the team the next year. No guarantees on making the team the following year but it should always be a possibility.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
It always amazes me when parents feel that the dynamics of summer baseball should be imposed universally onto school ball.
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I blame summer ball for inflating these parents/kids ego's! Summer ball is based only on ability...........to pay. It used to be about getting better and playing tough competition, but now its a dog and pony show for narcissistic parents to stunt for the 'Gram. So what we are witnessing now is some think they should automatically make the HS team because player X played travel for Y. Honestly, the problem isn't so much as making cuts, but rather how to deal with the foolishness after.
 
playboi12 said:
I blame summer ball for inflating these parents/kids ego's! Summer ball is based only on ability...........to pay. It used to be about getting better and playing tough competition, but now its a dog and pony show for narcissistic parents to stunt for the 'Gram. So what we are witnessing now is some think they should automatically make the HS team because player X played travel for Y. Honestly, the problem isn't so much as making cuts, but rather how to deal with the foolishness after.
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To a point, absolutely. Anyone who has been around the block a few times realizes which clubs are selective enough to be able to cull through try-outs and field consistent quality.

If a club has 3 or 4 teams at 14u one year, and 1 the next year or the year before, I'd take that as a bad sign and a need to take a really long look at your kid's prospective coach if you want to avoid a bad program. I once met a young coach in a failing program that one of my sons or I would fight to defend in a real life bad spot like the black knight in Monty Python. You'd have to knock either one of us out to "turn our backs" on the guy. Doesn't matter if we haven't spoken for years.

It's all about the man leading the team, more than anything.
 
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cabezadecaballo said:
When a kid plays varsity, JV or freshman has as much to do with school size, player position, who is older at his position, and team injury report as anything else "controlable", like actual player talent.
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Spot on.

One of our official's kids was on a local team. Mid-size school, I think middle of the pack DII. One senior unfortunately that year. Several juniors got hurt or came in hurt. A sophomore on the JV team about 1/3 way thought the season pitched a few innings in relief for Varsity and even started a couple of non-league games. The next year, all the juniors were back, healthy, and dominating and the kid's dad lost his mind because his son from the JV team wasn't the main starting pitcher on Varsity that year. He was on the roster, worked in relief including some key saves against top opponents, and started about 1/3 of their games in right. Kid was second team all conference, and team won the league and made it to I think a district final, but that dad didn't care about any of that. I felt bad for my friend and the coaching staff.

That kid went to play in college too and was pretty solid in the games I officiated him in.

I wonder if that dad is still butthurt.
 
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