106 is an example genius
Since lots of successful 106 pounders as freshman cut a lot of weight, which is advantageous against freshman weighing 100 lbs but a better national resume/ranking .
When will we see our next 4 time state champ
- Thread starter Lionattack
- Start date
Since lots of successful 106 pounders as freshman cut a lot of weight, which is advantageous against freshman weighing 100 lbs but a better national resume/ranking .this “old” guy has to be trolling us, making 0 sense
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
To win a state title a lot of things have to go right, even if you are the best guy. To do it 4 times is amazing which is why there are only a handful in history. Same with NCAAs.Like you...
Of course some brackets were deeper than others over the years. It’s common that a weight will clear out when someone seemingly unbeatable (David Taylor for example), but that doesn’t diminish the accomplishment at all. It’s also common that many of the 4xers, won their first title as a lightweight. Again, that doesn’t diminish the accomplishment at all.
Why not celebrate these kids and their incredible accomplishments?
One more thing, GET OFF MY LAWN!
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Yes and I'm waiting for you correct my factual statement..That all state champs and 4xers aren't created equal some have a MUCH easier path to becoming a 4 xer than others, some have MUCH better competition to go through. Why even have an MVP if that weren't a "TRUTH"??
106 is inherently different than every other weight, a wrestler may only weigh 100, or say 105 but be much better yet lose based on size of a wrestler cutting down from 115-120, thats 2 weight classes...because it's easy to hydrate back 6-8 pounds in a few hours. Other weight classes it's very rare to see such a disparity in size ...but of course you knew that .Oh you're diminishing the degree of disparity....Example a David Taylor winning Ironman beating a Logan Steiber..Compared to this year where not only did neither place at Ironman( Div 1 106) ...no one they lost to placed. There is a huge difference in the quality of some 4xers path. No different than noting that a guy wins the MVP due to BETTER COMPETITION. Dont always look for the NEGATIVE ....sometimes the truth will set you free. Winning 4 titles is always an accomplishment ....winning 1 title is too, especially if you beat the #1 ranked guy in the country
Just a little fact checking on your last post.
This is how weak the bracket was @ ironman.
1st Beric Jordan - 106 Ohio State Champ.
2nd Desmond - 106 PA State Champ
3rd Hilton - Runner up @ 113 lbs. National Prep Championships.
4th Mutarelli - 106 National Prep Champion
5th Mendoza - 106 Illinois State Champ.
6th Forbes - 106 Oklahoma state runner up.
7th Johnson - 106 Illinois 3rd place. Lost to Mendoza(above) in semis.
8th Dupill - 106 Tennesee State Champion.
Evans lost to Mutarelii(who placed 4th) and Limbert(who lost to Forbes(6th) and placed 3rd in D2, losing only to Jordan).
Butler lost to Desmond(runner-up) and Johnson(7th)
You are correct that weight class was incredibly weak this year.
This is how weak the bracket was @ ironman.
1st Beric Jordan - 106 Ohio State Champ.
2nd Desmond - 106 PA State Champ
3rd Hilton - Runner up @ 113 lbs. National Prep Championships.
4th Mutarelli - 106 National Prep Champion
5th Mendoza - 106 Illinois State Champ.
6th Forbes - 106 Oklahoma state runner up.
7th Johnson - 106 Illinois 3rd place. Lost to Mendoza(above) in semis.
8th Dupill - 106 Tennesee State Champion.
Evans lost to Mutarelii(who placed 4th) and Limbert(who lost to Forbes(6th) and placed 3rd in D2, losing only to Jordan).
Butler lost to Desmond(runner-up) and Johnson(7th)
You are correct that weight class was incredibly weak this year.
Agreed he is a beast that boy worked and is still working so hard to be where he is at he will take the title next year and the following and will take just as many national titles in college
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
Jesse Owens won an Olympic gold medal in 1936 running a 10.3 second 100 meters almost 3/4 of a second slower than Usain Bolt. Joe Montana won 4 Super Bowls, but one was against the Bengals. Mike Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champ, but he only beat Michael Spinks, Dustin Hoffman won the Oscar in 1989 for Rain man, but he only beat Tom Hanks and Gene Hackman. The Beatles were a good band, but they never played Woodstock, Jonas Salk developed the Polio vaccine, but it took him 7 years, Jesus Christ fed 5000 people with two loaves of bread, but……
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I never said the Ironman bracket was weak, I said nobody in the Ohio State state bracket or finals ( D1) was even close to placing. Evans the Champ was tech falled by a non champ and lost to a non placer. Quite a bit different than past 103-106 pound Ohio placers
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
Old142 please educate us with your facts, which of the 4x‘ers over the last 20 years had an easy path: J. Jaggers, Bo Jordan, David Taylor, Logan Stieber, Hunter Stieber, Chris Phillips, Dustin Schlatter, Lance Palmer, CP Schlatter, Micah Jordan, Mitch Moore, Collin Palmer, Dean Heil, Nathan Tomesello, Alex Marinelli, Kaleb Romero , David Carr, Mitch Moore, Cam Tessari?I never said the Ironman bracket was weak, I said nobody in the Ohio State state bracket or finals ( D1) was even close to placing. Evans the Champ was tech falled by a non champ and lost to a non placer. Quite a bit different than past 103-106 pound Ohio placers
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This is what you said. NOT TRUE. 3 of their 4 losses came to placers.
All the D3 guys. Not really comparable to any D1 bracket. I’d imagine a lot of those guys would still be 4 timers, but not all I’d bet
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
Sure on balance D1 is deeper than D3, and obviously having 3 divisions gives more opportunities for more total championships but I think Logan Stieber , Chris Phillips, Hunter Stieber, Cam Tessari, David Carr (freshman), Kaleb Romero, likely would have won D1 4x as well.
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Warriorviking
Active member
Joe Montana beat the Bengals twice. ?
Warriorviking
Active member
By his intuition all the 106lbers of 103 before that lol.
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
Hard to argue, maybe possibly Fishback? Both are incredible talents.
Warriorviking
Active member
The 4 best overall seasons were jordan shumate, blaze, and conley.
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
Fair point. Fish‘s 10-4 final like Jordans semi 13-7 win weren’t really as close as the scores appeared to be - Takedown, Cut, repeat….
Other than a few close ones at Ironman, Jordan absolutely dominated his competition. He’s a takedown machine and so fun to watch!
I realize you said this season, but Fishback over Shumate @ Fargo might be clouding my thinking. Brody Connelly had a dominant run as well.
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GeorgianDragoon
Member
Someone should pull the total number of participants per Division per weight class.
Some weight classes may have 2Xs the total participants entering all Sectionals as other weight classes. Some state brackets may average 12 upperclassmen while others only average 4-5. Mathematically some classes just have more competitors
With exceptional wrestlers like Jordan and Fishback it does not matter, there could be 4 or 1000 competitors. These guys are just elite strata.
Some weight classes may have 2Xs the total participants entering all Sectionals as other weight classes. Some state brackets may average 12 upperclassmen while others only average 4-5. Mathematically some classes just have more competitors
With exceptional wrestlers like Jordan and Fishback it does not matter, there could be 4 or 1000 competitors. These guys are just elite strata.
2025-Cole Evans, Marcus Blaze, Brogan Tucker, Mitchell Younger all won this year as freshman
Buckeye454
Member
1. Not all 106 lb wrestlers are over 100lbs. Ex: the #2 kid in the state at D2 from Copley (I know he didn't finish there) got absolutely RAGDOLLED by the #1 kid at Ironman. Beric is a beast without a doubt but to pretend a kid that cuts from, what was the joke earlier in the thread...150?....to 106 doesn't have an advantage over a kid that weighs in <100 lbs is asinine. 106 has a size disparity second only to 285. It's just the way it is.
2. The difference between a 106lb 19 year old man and a 200lb 19 year old man is significant in terms of physical attributes. This is undeniable. We will never settle and lb for lb debates, but I think we can all agree the Shumates and Phillips of the world were extremely special being able to compete with grown men as freshman at those weights.
Gbulldog
Well-known member
I dont get your logic on the " opponent who weighs less". Totally agree on "state champs, 4xers are not created equal".
Agree...absolutely not created equal. However, you are now saying "some" have a Much easier path and competition to go through than others. Which I agree. In your first post you say "most, if not all"...which I dont agree with. I beleive you may have a few that had a down weight class in a year. But i beleive thats the exception, not the norm. Just my opinion.Yes and I'm waiting for you correct my factual statement..That all state champs and 4xers aren't created equal some have a MUCH easier path to becoming a 4 xer than others, some have MUCH better competition to go through. Why even have an MVP if that weren't a "TRUTH"??
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
If its true that some of the 4x’ers won a title because of a “down year“, could it also be true that the weight class had a “down year“ precisely because they were in it? In other words, athletes cut down or bumped up to avoid them.
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Great freestyle win but Jordan defeating 3 top 10 nationally ranked wrestlers, #2,#3 and #10 and the #1 seed at Ironman all in one HS season is more impressive in my opinion.
Gbulldog
Well-known member
Agree