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I think you're on to something there.
Official 2020 Region 1 thread
- Thread starter SVillegrad
- Start date
I think you're on to something there.
Ref2010
Active member
In conversation 3 different coaches had 3 different answers at the #4 seed. Wow! This will be interesting tomorrow. I could see Ignatius anywhere from 4-10. You could be on to something with the Saints matchup in round 2. 6/7 also possible. There is a big window. All 3 agree on Eds, Mentor, McKinley. Stow will land lower than I originally thought. Sounds like GCC next in line is Euclid, Brunswick, Medina. One had Medina and Brunswick flip flopped.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
Public Brackets
officials.myohsaa.org
Unofficial?
SVillegrad
Well-known member
I get it. You look at programs alone.
Euclid (combined) 71, Strongsville/Medina/Brunswick (Combined) 70
The biggest margin was actually Strongsville (the worst of the 4) over Euclid by 9.
I guess Medina shouldn't have shown up in 2010 as the 8th seed against No. 1 McKinley. ... Medina 31, McKinley 28.
Look im not saying that Medina/Brunswick/Strongsville have the recent history as Euclid or McKinley. They don't. Nor am I saying that Strongsville (especially) would be a favorite over Iggy this year.
I'm also not saying that Medina in 2010 makes then better than McKinley even that year (it was an upset) but they won that game... IE upsets do happen.
Im just saying you make these absolute statements just based off past performance.... "if Medina doesn't beat Mentor next year they never will."
I get it. They are safe predictions but ones that are based on past performance.
Ref2010
Active member
Looks official. Good find!
SVillegrad
Well-known member
Looks pretty official since its the OHSAA.
The top looks loaded. You can make a case 5 of the 7 most talented teams are on that side.
Bottom looks like Mentor McKinley.
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cardzfan1234
Well-known member
Looks like the coaches agreed with me that McKinley/Euclid are slightly above Medina, Stow, Brunswick, and Strongsville. Glad they didn’t do something extreme like put Ignatius at 8, 9, or 10 like some suggest. #5 seed it looks like? No numbers in the brackets but that is my guess.
Overlaying the bracket in your link onto the OHSAA's blank bracket would be:
1. St. Edward
16. Canton Glen Oak
8. Medina
9. Strongsville
4. Euclid
13. Elyria
5. St. Ignatius
12. Solon
2. Mentor
15. Shaker Heights
7. Stow
10. Cleveland Heights
3. Canton McKinley
14. Berea-Midpark
6. Brunswick
11. Massillon Jackson
SVillegrad
Well-known member
Not sure what your bragging about. I had McKinley No. 3 and Euclid No. 4 on Friday night.... How did it shake out? McKinley No. 3 and Euclid No. 4.
Iggy another topic. Yes, probably a top five team, but based on what they have done so far, that's where I think there was a debate. Did they really earn the No. 5 seed? I say no. But moot at this point.
No, Ignatius did not.
cardzfan1234
Well-known member
Maybe, maybe not. The coaches are looking at the body of work to determine how good any of these teams are. To me, their losses were “better” than what I’m seeing from the most of the rest of Region 1. All of them but Mentor (and maybe McKinley) have a questionable loss to a team plenty below Massillon and St Eds. These teams all have wins and St Ignatius doesn’t. I get that. Do you value a win over Elyria more than their loss to St Eds? I don’t. Maybe some do.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
You're not even making good faith arguments at this point. I get it, you have an agenda. Why do you bring up only Elyria? Why does Ignatius get credit for "close" losses but other teams get penalized for close losses?
Case in point (and this isn't trying to argue who would win between Medina and Iggy), but comparing what we have to go on:
1. Ignatius has a 17-point loss to No. 1 Ed's; Medina has a 19-point loss to No. 2 Mentor. Pretty similar. But Cardz credits Iggy for a good win and knocks Medina.
2. Ignatius has a 7-point loss to No. 2 seed in D2/R7 Massillon; Medina has a 3-point loss to No. 4 Euclid. Again, Iggy gets credit for a good loss; and Medina "has vanished" (see the GCC thread) with the loss to Euclid.
3. Ignatius has an unofficial win against Bishop Sycamore; Medina has a 61-6 win against Elyria. We'll call that even.
That all looks comparable. Ignatius, albeit I'm sure their hands were tied by the school in delaying the season, has no more resume to go off in 2020 other than those three games. Medina has a 34-7 win against Strongsville. Yeah, nothing great, but Strongsville does have two wins, including one over No. 4 Euclid. Medina then has a close 28-21 loss to No. 6 Brunswick.
IMO, those two extra games were enough to have Medina slotted higher (I had them No. 7 and they ended up being No. 8). I could make a similar case for Stow, Brunswick and possibly even Strongsville (though I'd probably change that around had had Iggy at 8 and Strongsville 9 since Strongsville's two losses were blowouts to Medina and Brunswick).
Again, this is moot and the seedings fell almost exactly how I thought it would/should outside of Ignatius. And while I overall agree that Ignatius is probably a top five team, and I know you are the authority on who can and can't beat St. Ignatius in 2020, but I disagree with you that Stow and Medina (along with McKinley and Euclid) ... and possibly even Brunswick ... would have no shot in that game. Strongsville I would agree, Ignatius probably wins that comfortably.
I guess my entire point is that based on everything there is to go off or, I don't think an 0-2 Ignatius team did enough to justify getting a top 5 seed. ... Though, I also argued the vote should have been after this week and the D1 playoffs should have started in Week 8. An Ignatius win against St. Xavier in Cincinnati would have changed that and wouldn't have had any issues at all with top 5.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
I know St. ignatius still has a game left, but honestly, after seeing Solon, I don't think Iggy-X changes anything about that matchup (I'll explain).
For what I see happening, there are only two games that I think are worth talking about ... Ed's/Mentor/McKinley/Euclid/Stow/Medina all win.
The games that look intriguing are
6. Brunswick vs. 11. Jackson: Brunswick (4-2) has only played one horrible game all year (38-0) against Mentor. Jackson (2-4) has also only played one horrible game (30-0) to McKinley ... I guess 22-20 to GlenOak is also not good. But the last three good teams Jackson has played have all been 14-13 losses (Lake, Perry and Hoover). Still, this looks like it should be a good game. Jackson, after tonight, should have jumped Strongsville/Heights to at least the 9 spot. I haven't seen Jackson and I do think Brunswick is pretty good (even if not exciting), so I'll take Brunswick, at home, but one of the only games to look forward to, IMO.
The other is:
5. St. Ignatius (still a game to play but will be either 1-3 or 2-2 .. I'll count Bishop Sycamore) vs. No. 12 Solon (0-3). This is a game, on paper, I think could be interesting depending on how Ignatius matches up. I'll put it like this, Solon has talent but some very huge flaws. On the bright side for Solon is the pass defense looks strong, especially if they can pin back Story and the other linemen to get at the QB. Gave Medina (who has one of the top QBs in the state) fits tonight. On the flip side, the run defense is a sieve. Medina, which doesn't run, rammed the ball down there throats on the times they did run for 5-6 plus every time. I can see why they struggled against Kirtland (run 1st, 2nd and 3rd type team) and St. V (I'm guessing strength is also on the ground).
Offensively, Khalil Eichenberger is a stud. If Ignatius is soft against the run, he could churn out drives. Unfortunately for Solon, he is the offense. Solon can not throw at all. They may have had 150 yards passing tonight and like 90 of them were simply screens on third and 10-plus that went to Eichenberger who got some space and turned them into huge gains (huge question mark for Medina why they let two of them go by after getting burnt on the first one).
Anyway, I'm not about to bury Solon, who I think still can be dangerous if the matchup favors what they seem to do well. But they are probably a No. 12 seed as they don't seem to be a team that can dictate the game and force teams into playing into what they do well.
For what I see happening, there are only two games that I think are worth talking about ... Ed's/Mentor/McKinley/Euclid/Stow/Medina all win.
The games that look intriguing are
6. Brunswick vs. 11. Jackson: Brunswick (4-2) has only played one horrible game all year (38-0) against Mentor. Jackson (2-4) has also only played one horrible game (30-0) to McKinley ... I guess 22-20 to GlenOak is also not good. But the last three good teams Jackson has played have all been 14-13 losses (Lake, Perry and Hoover). Still, this looks like it should be a good game. Jackson, after tonight, should have jumped Strongsville/Heights to at least the 9 spot. I haven't seen Jackson and I do think Brunswick is pretty good (even if not exciting), so I'll take Brunswick, at home, but one of the only games to look forward to, IMO.
The other is:
5. St. Ignatius (still a game to play but will be either 1-3 or 2-2 .. I'll count Bishop Sycamore) vs. No. 12 Solon (0-3). This is a game, on paper, I think could be interesting depending on how Ignatius matches up. I'll put it like this, Solon has talent but some very huge flaws. On the bright side for Solon is the pass defense looks strong, especially if they can pin back Story and the other linemen to get at the QB. Gave Medina (who has one of the top QBs in the state) fits tonight. On the flip side, the run defense is a sieve. Medina, which doesn't run, rammed the ball down there throats on the times they did run for 5-6 plus every time. I can see why they struggled against Kirtland (run 1st, 2nd and 3rd type team) and St. V (I'm guessing strength is also on the ground).
Offensively, Khalil Eichenberger is a stud. If Ignatius is soft against the run, he could churn out drives. Unfortunately for Solon, he is the offense. Solon can not throw at all. They may have had 150 yards passing tonight and like 90 of them were simply screens on third and 10-plus that went to Eichenberger who got some space and turned them into huge gains (huge question mark for Medina why they let two of them go by after getting burnt on the first one).
Anyway, I'm not about to bury Solon, who I think still can be dangerous if the matchup favors what they seem to do well. But they are probably a No. 12 seed as they don't seem to be a team that can dictate the game and force teams into playing into what they do well.
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Mr. Red Raider
Well-known member
One particular matchup that I'm looking forward to is (10) Cleveland Heights at (7) Stow-Munroe Falls. Stow got a huge victory against Nordonia (I believe the score was 53-47). Heights has some pretty decent size up front, and some good athletes. I can see Heights making a game out of this and potentially getting an upset of Stow on the road if the Bulldogs overlook them. I believe that Cleveland Heights also won the LEL with a 17-14 victory over my alma mater this evening as well. The Tigers are gonna be a tough out, and whoever wins has a very stiff hill to climb against Mentor (should they presumably beat Shaker)
SVillegrad
Well-known member
I'm not seeing it, especially since a three point win against Shaker is actually a loss imo, as for Heights chances. Shaker probably finishes 0 fer in the GCC behind even Elyria this year. A reason why they left (and Elyria is leaving next year).
But we'll see.
brian1227
Well-known member
Solon is awful.
cardzfan1234
Well-known member
What agenda do you think I have? I have an opinion. St Ignatius is the 3rd best team in the region. That is it. You think Medina, Euclid, McKinley, etc. would fare better in two games against Eds/Massillon? I don't.
Put the coaches of Medina, Stow, St Ignatius, Brunswick, Strongsville, McKinley, Euclid, and Cleveland Heights on the spot. Ask the coaches to decide which opponent they would most like to avoid in the 2nd round. I feel extremely confident that St Ignatius would be the highest on the list. Whether they "earned' that with wins, close losses, reputation, coaching, or whatever reason.
Ref2010
Active member
That is the same opinion other have on Iggy also including me, between 3-5. That is probably the case. The question is for all of us in that boat is. How much are we giving them because they are Iggy? And how good are they really? We will find out early. The defensive front 6-7 are by far the strength of the team and that can be dangerous for anyone in the region.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
The coaches apparently agreed with you for the most part. But that's not the point I was making (though I do think the coaches, like you, based the vote off of prestige/past success instead on what has happened on the field in 2020).
You and the coaches may be right. I just don't see any strong argument that St. Ignatius has earned a top 5 seed based on this year, and at least one Iggy supporter agreed with that.
As for agenda, I'm not saying its personal per say, but I've been talking up Medina as being a legit R1 player in 2021 and 2022 for the past three or four years after following the group of juniors and sophomores going back to when they were in 7th/8th grade. You (and im sure most people thought I was just being a straight up homer). But now that the pieces are starting to fall and it shows maybe I may have been on to something you have made it a point to amplify the losses Medina has had. Really it doesn't matter because its either going to happen (and I was right on these classes) or it doesn't and I'll eat crow.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
I'll get this back on track with predictions, even though it seems like a pretty cut and dry first round, though the Brunswick-Jackson game seems like it should be a good one.
1. Ed's vs. 16. GlenOak: GlenOak may not be the worst team in the field but someone had to be here. Ed's probably plays it a bit conservative but still rolls.
2. Mentor vs. 15 Shaker Heights: is Shaker maybe underslotted by a spot or two, or is Cleveland Heights smoke and mirrors? Probably a bit of both. Either way, Mentor wins big. I'm looking to see if Mentor puts it on them since you know Shaker left the GCC last year not on the greatest terms.
3. McKinley vs. 14. Berea-Midpark: another one that won't be close. B-M played two games against comparable competition to McKinley and lost both by about 50. Probably won't get that ugly bit still will be a running clock game.
5. St. Ignatius vs. 12. Solon: in the end a fitting first round matchup of two 0-3 teams (technically Iggy is 1-3) that have great reputations and a ton of questions. After seeing Solon last week, I thought it was a team that could still be dangerous if they can dictate game flow. Problem is it looks like they will be playing into the strengths of the Ignatius team. Solon had success running the ball against Medina but struggled (outside a couple long third down screens) in passing situations. Medina's Dline otherwise dominated the LOS in long situations and Solon's passing game looked lost. Ignatius obviously had some issues defending the pass last week at St. X, but don't see that being the case. Eichelberger may break enough runs to keep Solon around but that won't be enough. Plus, Ignatius should be able the gash the Solon run defense. I see a 27-13 type game.
4. Euclid vs. 13. Elyria: So the Pioneers doubled up Euclid in yards last week in what was still a 42-20 loss. But I'm guessing that since Euclid knew going in that it was going to be a rematch a week later was sleepwalking. This week, I think Euclid jumps on them early. Score may be similar but I can see Euclid going up 42-7 and Elyria getting a couple garbage time TDs.
6. Brunswick vs. 11. Jackson: This is a toss up. Brunswick is probably not as bad as the Mentor game made them look but they are a program that is making strides but they largely have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat the past two years. The Medina win was nice but even then it took almost everything going their way to eke out the win. Jackson isn't on the Mentor tier by anymeans but has been a consistently decent program the past 4 or 5 years, playing in the wacky Fed where unpredictable games happen seemingly more there than any other league. Outside of McKinley, Jackson has been close against three pretty good teams (and close with one bad one). I don't see this being very high scoring based off of the results so far when both are matched up against solid competition. Maybe I'll go Brunswick 14, Jackson 13 ?
7. Stow vs. 10. Cleveland Heights: this one is interesting because I think Stow could have been anywhere from 3-7 and there could be a case for it, and they ended up on the low side. Heights could have been anywhere from 10 to 12 and ended up on the high side. Maybe neither team is as good as their 4-1 records indicate, but don't think it matters for Stow. They have legit firepower on offense and I don't see Heights keeping up. Running clock here wouldn't surprise me.
8. Medina vs. 9. Strongsville: Medina's 3 point loss to Euclid likely dropped them from 4th all the way to 8. The good news is they get a Strongsville team, that outside one Friday in Euclid, looks more in the tier of the 13-16 teams. Medina, in a get healthy game in Week 3, methodically went up 34-0 on Strongsville early in the fourth before Strongsville hit a 80 yard TDs against the backups. Medina is again banged up and luckily is in the same spot as week 3. I see this one going pretty similar... won't be a quick knockout blow but Medina should wear them down. This is the perfect week for Medina to continue working on the run game (which they had success with against Solon and they will need to mix in if they have any shot at Ed's). So it may be a little closer ... something like 27-7.
1. Ed's vs. 16. GlenOak: GlenOak may not be the worst team in the field but someone had to be here. Ed's probably plays it a bit conservative but still rolls.
2. Mentor vs. 15 Shaker Heights: is Shaker maybe underslotted by a spot or two, or is Cleveland Heights smoke and mirrors? Probably a bit of both. Either way, Mentor wins big. I'm looking to see if Mentor puts it on them since you know Shaker left the GCC last year not on the greatest terms.
3. McKinley vs. 14. Berea-Midpark: another one that won't be close. B-M played two games against comparable competition to McKinley and lost both by about 50. Probably won't get that ugly bit still will be a running clock game.
5. St. Ignatius vs. 12. Solon: in the end a fitting first round matchup of two 0-3 teams (technically Iggy is 1-3) that have great reputations and a ton of questions. After seeing Solon last week, I thought it was a team that could still be dangerous if they can dictate game flow. Problem is it looks like they will be playing into the strengths of the Ignatius team. Solon had success running the ball against Medina but struggled (outside a couple long third down screens) in passing situations. Medina's Dline otherwise dominated the LOS in long situations and Solon's passing game looked lost. Ignatius obviously had some issues defending the pass last week at St. X, but don't see that being the case. Eichelberger may break enough runs to keep Solon around but that won't be enough. Plus, Ignatius should be able the gash the Solon run defense. I see a 27-13 type game.
4. Euclid vs. 13. Elyria: So the Pioneers doubled up Euclid in yards last week in what was still a 42-20 loss. But I'm guessing that since Euclid knew going in that it was going to be a rematch a week later was sleepwalking. This week, I think Euclid jumps on them early. Score may be similar but I can see Euclid going up 42-7 and Elyria getting a couple garbage time TDs.
6. Brunswick vs. 11. Jackson: This is a toss up. Brunswick is probably not as bad as the Mentor game made them look but they are a program that is making strides but they largely have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat the past two years. The Medina win was nice but even then it took almost everything going their way to eke out the win. Jackson isn't on the Mentor tier by anymeans but has been a consistently decent program the past 4 or 5 years, playing in the wacky Fed where unpredictable games happen seemingly more there than any other league. Outside of McKinley, Jackson has been close against three pretty good teams (and close with one bad one). I don't see this being very high scoring based off of the results so far when both are matched up against solid competition. Maybe I'll go Brunswick 14, Jackson 13 ?
7. Stow vs. 10. Cleveland Heights: this one is interesting because I think Stow could have been anywhere from 3-7 and there could be a case for it, and they ended up on the low side. Heights could have been anywhere from 10 to 12 and ended up on the high side. Maybe neither team is as good as their 4-1 records indicate, but don't think it matters for Stow. They have legit firepower on offense and I don't see Heights keeping up. Running clock here wouldn't surprise me.
8. Medina vs. 9. Strongsville: Medina's 3 point loss to Euclid likely dropped them from 4th all the way to 8. The good news is they get a Strongsville team, that outside one Friday in Euclid, looks more in the tier of the 13-16 teams. Medina, in a get healthy game in Week 3, methodically went up 34-0 on Strongsville early in the fourth before Strongsville hit a 80 yard TDs against the backups. Medina is again banged up and luckily is in the same spot as week 3. I see this one going pretty similar... won't be a quick knockout blow but Medina should wear them down. This is the perfect week for Medina to continue working on the run game (which they had success with against Solon and they will need to mix in if they have any shot at Ed's). So it may be a little closer ... something like 27-7.
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I value the quality of the play. Ignatius was shut out in one game, putrid on offense in another, and horrendous on defense in the 3rd.
Honestly at this point are my beloved Cats just getting by on reputation?
Sure seems that way
Anything that’s decided by a vote is gonna have some bias, but it’s not like they’re narrowing it down to four teams. At least every team will have an opportunity to prove their worth.
As long as St. Ignatius is St. Ignatius, they’re going to get respect. Especially considering who they lost to and how close those games were. You find out a lot more from a 7-point loss to Massillon than you would after a 50+ point win over Parma Normandy.
As long as St. Ignatius is St. Ignatius, they’re going to get respect. Especially considering who they lost to and how close those games were. You find out a lot more from a 7-point loss to Massillon than you would after a 50+ point win over Parma Normandy.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
Its in the past and at this point and I think Ignatius-Solon is a fitting matchup since both are in the same boat.
But no team in this field played Normandy.
SVillegrad
Well-known member
Devil's advocate here. They are still better than what they have shown against elite competition. But to the point about the other teams, they haven't just been playing Normandy types, so who really knows?
My guess is Iggy is right in that top 5 range (even though their resume would say 9th at best).
I agree with you points on Iggy-Solon. I used Normandy as an example of a “running clock” team for Iggy. Given their history/rep, I understand why they still get the benefit of the doubt.
cardzfan1234
Well-known member
Some interesting statistics about Region 1 over the past 20 years:
The last time a team other than St Edward, St Ignatius, or Mentor was in a Region 1 final...Stow (2015)
The last time a team other than St Edward, St Ignatius, or Mentor won Region 1...Glenville (2009)
The last time a current Region 1 team other than the Big Three won a regional title...Brunswick (2007)
The last time a current Region 1 team other than the Big Three won Region 1...Solon (2000)
Region 1 Winners since 2000:
2000 - Solon
2001 - St Ignatius
2002 - Warren Harding
2003 - St Edward
2004 - Glenville
2005 - St Edward
2006 - Mentor
2007 - Mentor
2008 - St Ignatius
2009 - Glenville
2010 - St Edward
2011 - St Ignatius
2012 - Mentor
2013 - Mentor
2014 - St Edward*
2015 - St Edward*
2016 - St Ignatius
2017 - Mentor
2018 - St Edward
2019 - Mentor
*In 2014 and 2015, Hudson and Stow won Week 13 games and advanced to a "regional final" that also served double duty as a state semifinal. This was the years of two regions in DI, technically limiting the state regional final winners to just two, rather than four. So it depends on how you look at it. By the letter of the law, neither Hudson nor Stow won the region. But both teams did make the final four in Division I...which would've made them "regional champs" in any other year.
*The Big Three have won ten straight Region 1 titles and 14 of the last 15.
*Region 1 winners are 15-2 in state semifinal games (not counting the two region seasons of 2013-15). Region 1 winners are 7-10 in state final appearances since 2000. St Ignatius and St Edward are a combined 7-2. The other four (Mentor, Glenville, WGH, and Solon) are 0-8. I know, I'm a glutton for punishment for bringing that stat up.
The last time a team other than St Edward, St Ignatius, or Mentor was in a Region 1 final...Stow (2015)
The last time a team other than St Edward, St Ignatius, or Mentor won Region 1...Glenville (2009)
The last time a current Region 1 team other than the Big Three won a regional title...Brunswick (2007)
The last time a current Region 1 team other than the Big Three won Region 1...Solon (2000)
Region 1 Winners since 2000:
2000 - Solon
2001 - St Ignatius
2002 - Warren Harding
2003 - St Edward
2004 - Glenville
2005 - St Edward
2006 - Mentor
2007 - Mentor
2008 - St Ignatius
2009 - Glenville
2010 - St Edward
2011 - St Ignatius
2012 - Mentor
2013 - Mentor
2014 - St Edward*
2015 - St Edward*
2016 - St Ignatius
2017 - Mentor
2018 - St Edward
2019 - Mentor
*In 2014 and 2015, Hudson and Stow won Week 13 games and advanced to a "regional final" that also served double duty as a state semifinal. This was the years of two regions in DI, technically limiting the state regional final winners to just two, rather than four. So it depends on how you look at it. By the letter of the law, neither Hudson nor Stow won the region. But both teams did make the final four in Division I...which would've made them "regional champs" in any other year.
*The Big Three have won ten straight Region 1 titles and 14 of the last 15.
*Region 1 winners are 15-2 in state semifinal games (not counting the two region seasons of 2013-15). Region 1 winners are 7-10 in state final appearances since 2000. St Ignatius and St Edward are a combined 7-2. The other four (Mentor, Glenville, WGH, and Solon) are 0-8. I know, I'm a glutton for punishment for bringing that stat up.
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What a coincidence. The years Ignatius won the Region they also made the State Title game. Won them all except 2016, and they should have won that one.
cardzfan1234
Well-known member
In the last 20 years, the Region 1 winner lost in the semifinal just twice. St Edward (the famous 3rd and 30 if I remember right) lost in 2005 to Massillon. Mentor, humbled by the worst defense ever and an injury to Brandon Fritts in the 1st quarter, lost to Whitmer in 2012.
But you are right. When St Ignatius is good...they're really good. The "best" St Ignatius team to not win it all over the past 20 years was quite possibly the 2012 team. IMO, they were just as good or better than the 2008 and 2016 teams. St Ignatius has "only" won three regional titles in 18 seasons. But they won two state titles in those seasons. One thing you can say about Chico and that program...when they are good enough to get there, they win. Only two exceptions in 13 tries which is quite impressive.