You arent adding teams, just spreading them out. At the District level you would run D1-2 sites together and 3-4 together.Won't many of the same problems with scheduling and officials also
exist at the district and regional levels.
Also more likely for coaches to have to be at two places
Will there really be any noticeable difference in D3 and D4 Tournaments?
At the Regional level, I would think you would run D1/D3 on Wednesday/Friday and D2/D4 on Thursday/Saturday (or vice versa). This is for the same reason that D2 is R/S now while D1 and D3 are W/F...it allows coaches whose boys and girls are in different divisions to attend both meets. And actually, they could start alternating which divisions go which days if they wanted to. For Districts, the schedules would be up to each DAB to figure out.You arent adding teams, just spreading them out. At the District level you would run D1-2 sites together and 3-4 together.
The number of meets would certainly change. You are adding 16 district meets and 4 regional meets when you add a division.The number of meets and nights wouldnt change.
At districts, most likely. I don't know about other areas, but District managers in this area beg for officials right up to the week of the meet. There just aren't enough officials for all the meets that need to happen that week. They might be able to do things like schedule two divisions of finals on a Saturday at the same site. That would help, but then you run into issues if the weather doesn't cooperate.Won't many of the same problems with scheduling and officials also exist at the district and regional levels.
Agreed. The purpose of a coaching association. Would be to promote the sport. Not advocating for 4 divisions wouldn't be goodPerhaps so, but it's an argument I have heard before. And if that's the excuse being used to limit divisions (or anything that might advance our sport), it's worth noting.
We just need to do it in two separate locations then...the State of Washington has 5 divisions and they just have two locations for Track...one for XC.It seems to me that if we are locked in to two days at Jesse Owens, 4 divisions is going to be hard to pull off. I used to not think that was the case, but after such a delayed Friday evening this year, 4 divisions would have been nearly impossible to complete.
With COVID still going on wouldn't this be just the perfect opportunity to start this? 4 divisions and separate locations for state championships seems logical at this time.We just need to do it in two separate locations then...the State of Washington has 5 divisions and they just have two locations for Track...one for XC.
That I agree with completely. I coached at a school with 600 students (single sex), and we were up against a school (mixed) with 4000. Not exactly on even terms, so we had to punch above our weight...which we did.If it can be done at one place...great. However, right now the divisions are unfair. Division 1 pits 700 student schools verses 2800 student ones. The most important thing is making the divisions fair. If a big (yet much smaller state than Ohio) like Washington can have 5 divisions then Ohio certainly can figure out a way to get it done.
The cutoff for D1 is 287. I feel for the d1 teams that are close to that number or even a couple hundred away from that number. Its totally unfair. You might have a team once every 10-15 years that might compete as a team with those big d1 schools beyond districts, but you won't consistently be competitive every year.If it can be done at one place...great. However, right now the divisions are unfair. Division 1 pits 700 student schools verses 2800 student ones. The most important thing is making the divisions fair. If a big (yet much smaller state than Ohio) like Washington can have 5 divisions then Ohio certainly can figure out a way to get it done.
OHSAA isn't in a great position right now to expand its tournaments if it's not certain to generate additional profit. Spectator limitations would make it difficult to turn a profit. Those limits need to increase. The vaccination process still has a long way to go before we get there. Also, it's not just an additional state meet we're talking about here. Another division = 16 more district meets for the various District Boards to operate + 4 more Regional meets for the OHSAA to operate. Lastly, I agree with psycho_dad in that we should worry about getting through this season first. I'm somewhat worried that we see a few less "teams" at the district level this spring which won't help the cause. I'm not against having 4 divisions in some form (i.e. I'm not necessarily in favor of each division having 25% of the teams), but now isn't the best time to implement it, IMHO.With COVID still going on wouldn't this be just the perfect opportunity to start this? 4 divisions and separate locations for state championships seems logical at this time.
100% agree that the starting point should be to separate D1 similar to the football example that has worked.I still see it being an issue if they divide the schools by 4. D1 will still have a huge gap. They need to do something where D1 is like Football 600 and up. If that's only 60 schools, so be it. Something like 1-150 D4, 151-300, D3. 301-600 D2, 601+ D1 ... D4 would be very close to D3 now. D3 would be very close to D2 now. Then really only D4 would compete against schools more than double their size, but I don't see how you avoid that.
1000% agree. Don't even add more Divisions if you aren't going to fix Division I.100% agree that the starting point should be to separate D1 similar to the football example that has worked.
XC for 2021 is 308 athletes for D1
Track for 2021 is 287 for D1
Celina has 308 boys.
Mason has 1299 boys.
Mason has more 4 x the number of boys compared to Celina. Or a more staggering figure 991 more boys.
But these figures are only for 9,10,11 grades
Celina actually has about- 102 boys per grade or 410 total boys from 9-12 grades.
Mason actually has about 433 boys per grade or 1732 total boys from 9-12 grades. Mason has 1322 more boys in their high school than Celina.
Mason has more boys in their freshmen class than Celina has in their entire school by 22 boys.
Mason has more kids quarantined at any given point than Celina has in their school system.
Completely made up numbers.Divisions should be divided by numbers of students in a school that make them competitive with each other, not based on even distribution of schools within a division. If 90% of the schools have a population of say 150-250 boys or girls, then those 90% should be in that same division. Outliers like Mason should belong in their own "super division" with schools with over 600 athletes in a given sex. Absolutely RIDICULOUS dividing by even distributions.
On your first two statements, yes, that is fair. At least far closer to fair than a school the size of Celina competing against a school the size of Mason.So, A division of 30 schools competing for a state championship in one division. A division of 100, 150 in another and 400 in another. How is that fair?
So a kid in the Super Division has 59 kids to compete against and kids in the other divisions have 199, 349 or 799 kids to have to go against.
The OHSAA is not going to do something that is not clear cut and easy.