US News & World Report Best Colleges: 2019-20

Auggie

Well-known member

Always a fun conversational list as these bastions of thought try to go NCAA football and debate the smallest detail that makes their school look better.

Top 5 National Universities
1-Princeton
2-Harvard
3-Columbia
4-MIT
5-Yale

Top 5 National Liberal Arts Colleges:
1-Williams
2-Amherst
3-Swarthmore
4-Wellesley
5-Pomona
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Ohio>

Top 5 National Universities in Ohio:
40-Case Western Reserve
54-Ohio State
91-Miami
132-Dayton
139-Cincinnati

Top 5 National Liberal Arts Colleges in Ohio
27-Kenyon
33-Oberlin
43-Denison
66-Wooster
92-Ohio Wesleyan

Top 5 Midwest Regional Universities in Ohio:
2-John Carroll
5-Xavier
10-Baldwin Wallace
17-Franciscan University of Steubenville
20-Otterbein

Top 5 Midwest Regional Colleges in Ohio:
5-Ohio Northern
10-Marietta
13-Mount Union
14-Hiram
18-Heidelberg
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Florida must really subsidize. Fairly inexpensive even out-of-state. Nice showing for Ohio's smaller schools.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Go Spartans (Case Western)!
That is such a cool area, University Circle. One of the most cosmopolitan in people and style neighborhoods I've seen and I'm fairly well traveled. Don't know what it was like back in the day but if I could rewind time and actually make a conscious decision as to where I went to undergrad, I wonder if I'd pick there. I think I would have.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Big Ten
9 Northwestern
25 Michigan
46 Wisconsin
48 Illinois
54 Ohio State
57 Purdue
57 Penn State
62 Rutgers
64 Maryland
70 Minnesota
79 Indiana
84 Michigan St
84 Iowa
139 Nebraska

I think Ohio State has a lower acceptance rate and higher student academic profile than both Wisconsin and Illinois. Surprised they aren’t 3rd honestly. I’d put Purdue a bit higher as well. I guess Nebraska is only in the conference due to football.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I think Ohio State has a lower acceptance rate and higher student academic profile than both Wisconsin and Illinois. Surprised they aren’t 3rd honestly. I’d put Purdue a bit higher as well. I guess Nebraska is only in the conference due to football.
Purdue doesn't have a Med, Law or a Music school. Being a large state univeristy, that knocks them down a bit I imagine, compared to OSU and Mich. Considering they don't have those schools, I'm honestly surprised their fund raising goes so well. They do well in the "value-added" type polls.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Florida must really subsidize. Fairly inexpensive even out-of-state. Nice showing for Ohio's smaller schools.
Yeah, Ohio has some really good liberal arts schools. I would have thought Xavier would be a national university along the lines of Dayton
Big Ten
9 Northwestern
25 Michigan
46 Wisconsin
48 Illinois
54 Ohio State
57 Purdue
57 Penn State
62 Rutgers
64 Maryland
70 Minnesota
79 Indiana
84 Michigan St
84 Iowa
139 Nebraska

I think Ohio State has a lower acceptance rate and higher student academic profile than both Wisconsin and Illinois. Surprised they aren’t 3rd honestly. I’d put Purdue a bit higher as well. I guess Nebraska is only in the conference due to football.
I think that Wiscy, Illinois, Ohio State, and Penn State are all very similar and to have 4 B1G clustered that closely together in the late 40s early 50s sounds about right. Nebraska is a total out layer and really fits in with the academics of the Big 12. Notre Dame academically, geographically, and athletically screams B1G.

By the way here are the top 20 (actually 21 as there was a tie at 20) for all BCS Conferences:
6-Stanford
9-Northwestern
10-Duke
15-Notre Dame
15-Vanderbilt
20-UCLA
22-Cal Berkley
22-USC
25-Michigan
27-Wake Forest
28-UVA
29-Georgia Tech
29-UNC
34-Florida
37-Boston College
46-Wisconsin
48-Illinois
48-Texas
50-Georgia
54-Ohio State
54-Syracuse

Conference Breakdown:
ACC>8
B1G>5
PAC 12>4
SEC>3
Big 12>1
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Yeah, Ohio has some really good liberal arts schools. I would have thought Xavier would be a national university along the lines of Dayton


I think that Wiscy, Illinois, Ohio State, and Penn State are all very similar and to have 4 B1G clustered that closely together in the late 40s early 50s sounds about right. Nebraska is a total out layer and really fits in with the academics of the Big 12. Notre Dame academically, geographically, and athletically screams B1G.

By the way here are the top 20 (actually 21 as there was a tie at 20) for all BCS Conferences:
6-Stanford
9-Northwestern
10-Duke
15-Notre Dame
15-Vanderbilt
20-UCLA
22-Cal Berkley
22-USC
25-Michigan
27-Wake Forest
28-UVA
29-Georgia Tech
29-UNC
34-Florida
37-Boston College
46-Wisconsin
48-Illinois
48-Texas
50-Georgia
54-Ohio State
54-Syracuse

Conference Breakdown:
ACC>8
B1G>5
PAC 12>4
SEC>3
Big 12>1
You need to calculate the average rank by conference for me, mostly because I’m curious and don’t want to do it.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
That is such a cool area, University Circle. One of the most cosmopolitan in people and style neighborhoods I've seen and I'm fairly well traveled. Don't know what it was like back in the day but if I could rewind time and actually make a conscious decision as to where I went to undergrad, I wonder if I'd pick there. I think I would have.
Way back in the day, mein Großvater walked up the Hill during Prohibition from what is now the Cleveland Institute of Art - it was a Ford assembly plant then - to get a water glass full of wine for a nickel. His blue eyes could have got him in a fight up the Hill in Little Italy if he didn't drop the right name. Don King was running "Policy" through all the watering holes and pool rooms. Bob Hope, formerly flopping as Packy East, might show up slumming it after initial success. The Cleveland Museum of Art was already a treasure, The Case School of Applied Science and Western Reserve College still had competing football teams and the Clinic was a neighborhood and a half away.

Back in my day, the Food Co-op was in that old plant and the Mr Stress Blues Band played in "The Euc" across the street. Still pretty insular with the dagos up the Hill. Now, as you say, the whole area is a real slice of life.

I laughed when Peter B Lewis publicly called out the Circle movers and shakers a few years ago. He griped about engulfing "his" old neighborhoods with sprawl - actually turning on them in a fluff session speech and holding up the threat of holding out his donation cash - and demanded a new approach.

I love what they are doing with housing options and walkability. Fingers crossed. Hopefully there is enough interest to credibly flesh out the Euclid Corridor - part of that from 30th to 105th once Millionaires' Row - from downtown through the Circle and it eventually makes sense to annex and renew East Cleveland.
 
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Auggie

Well-known member
You need to calculate the average rank by conference for me, mostly because I’m curious and don’t want to do it.
Too lazy to go beyond the top 20. I would suspect it will look something like that list with the ACC topping it then followed by the B1G & Pac 12.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Big Ten
9 Northwestern
25 Michigan
46 Wisconsin
48 Illinois
54 Ohio State
57 Purdue
57 Penn State
62 Rutgers
64 Maryland
70 Minnesota
79 Indiana
84 Michigan St
84 Iowa
139 Nebraska

I think Ohio State has a lower acceptance rate and higher student academic profile than both Wisconsin and Illinois. Surprised they aren’t 3rd honestly. I’d put Purdue a bit higher as well. I guess Nebraska is only in the conference due to football.
As I said earlier, the USN&WR rankings weigh heavily upon graduate education. Its metric is going to yield some wonky, hyper-focused results that don't reflect incoming freshmen's qualities, or even needs.
 
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Auggie

Well-known member
I laughed when Peter B Lewis publicly called out the Circle movers and shakers a few years ago. He griped about engulfing "his" old neighborhoods with sprawl - actually turning on them in a fluff session speech and holding up the threat of holding out his donation cash - and demanded a new approach.

I love what they are doing with housing options and walkability. Fingers crossed. Hopefully there is enough interest to credibly flesh out the Euclid Corridor from downtown through the Circle and it eventually makes sense to annex and renew East Cleveland.
Peter showed them by dumping his Geary designed building in the middle of the old conservative Western Reserve University side of the campus.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Purdue doesn't have a Med, Law or a Music school. Being a large state univeristy, that knocks them down a bit I imagine, compared to OSU and Mich. Considering they don't have those schools, I'm honestly surprised their fund raising goes so well. They do well in the "value-added" type polls.
My sister was an Indiana resident when her oldest graduated high school. The value of the engineering base he was provided with in return for the investment asked for was amazing. His future is bright and his debt is negligible. Purdue is awesome in my book.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Peter showed them by dumping his Geary designed building in the middle of the old conservative Western Reserve University side of the campus.

That building was old news during the speech I referenced. They wanted more. They were standing before him as Oliver Twist, holding out their humble little bowls


I look at the edifice that bears his name, and it's not hard to believe he's a card-carrying member of NORML........... should be the Peter B. Lewis Carroll Building.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
As I said earlier, the USN&WR rankings weigh heavily upon graduate eduaction. Its metric is going to yield some wonky, hyper-focused results that don't reflect incoming freshmen's qualities, or even needs.
I disagree. The USNWR actually weighs heavier on measurable metrics like board scores, % acceptance rates, and then the ability to retain these students and the graduation rate in 6 years or less. What helps all these flagship state schools like Wiscy, Illinois, Ohio State, etc... is that because they are such good deals when factoring in state tuition the cream of the crop in state is now going there which in turn drives up the average SAT/ACT scores and they tend to graduate in 4 years. UCLA is another example of this phenomenon. As recently as the '90s to folks in Cali this was the commuter school of LA, now it is ranked higher than Berkley with well off parents are paying off folks to get their kids into the school.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
I disagree. The USNWR actually weighs heavier on measurable metrics like board scores, % acceptance rates, and then the ability to retain these students and the graduation rate in 6 years or less. What helps all these flagship state schools like Wiscy, Illinois, Ohio State, etc... is that because they are such good deals when factoring in state tuition the cream of the crop in state is now going there which in turn drives up the average SAT/ACT scores and they tend to graduate in 4 years. UCLA is another example of this phenomenon. As recently as the '90s to folks in Cali this was the commuter school of LA, now it is ranked higher than Berkley with well off parents are paying off folks to get their kids into the school.
I guess I didn't express myself well. Let's try this - Miami of Ohio is the third ranked school nationally in "Undergraduate Studies" by USN&WR. They are ranked 91st in the category of "National Universities" by USN&WR. Do with that what you will.

Me, if I'm an Ohio resident and my kid is totally or practically undecided as to degree goals, that's my suggestion as a first application.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I guess I didn't express myself well. Let's try this - Miami of Ohio is the third ranked school nationally in "Undergraduate Studies" by USN&WR. They are ranked 91st in the category of "National Universities" by USN&WR. Do with that what you will.

Me, if I'm an Ohio resident and my kid is totally or practically undecided as to degree goals, that's my suggestion as a first application.
Miami is 8th in undergraduate education. That’s a bit of a wonky sub category. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic school still, but it would be further down on my list behind Ohio State, especially if the kid was undecided. Unless the kid expressed an interest in business, as Farmer is still top notch. If the kid was leaning towards a stem degree, I’d suggest Ohio State and even Cincinnati (especially engineering).
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
My sister was an Indiana resident when her oldest graduated high school. The value of the engineering base he was provided with in return for the investment asked for was amazing. His future is bright and his debt is negligible. Purdue is awesome in my book.
Purdue is a fantastic school.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Miami is 8th in undergraduate education. That’s a bit of a wonky sub category. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic school still, but it would be further down on my list behind Ohio State, especially if the kid was undecided. Unless the kid expressed an interest in business, as Farmer is still top notch. If the kid was leaning towards a stem degree, I’d suggest Ohio State and even Cincinnati (especially engineering).
Last year they were 3rd. I have a high school senior and was using the US News site to compare schools.

As you say, OSU, Purdue and even UC would be better choices for engineering. My youngest could easily decide that he wants to be a fry cook on Venus......And the party life at OSU could prove a bit too tempting.

Iirc, they actually referred to the category as “undergraduate teaching “, and I believe class size figured in - which is another important consideration for those like my son.

“First application” and first choice are different things, too. Many OSU kids of late seem to get shifted off to satellite campuses for their freshman year. My other nephew was among those, and it was not what he would have chosen.
 
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eastisbest

Well-known member
Ask Purdue people the toughest Engineering school in Indiana and they say Rose-Hulman, no hesitation. In Ohio, it's Case. Michigan? The former GMI, now Kettering. You really can't go wrong, if you know what you want. The larger state schools are great when you're not quite sure because they have a diversity of programs. A prof at Purdue asked me how they got me away from UToledo. Like Akron, Toledo is great at what they're great at, but the options are much narrower. If coming out of high school I'd heard of "Northwestern Business College-Technical Center" (University of Northwestern Ohio)? A university for greaseheads! You bet.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Last year they were 3rd. I have a high school senior and was using the US News site to compare schools.

As you say, OSU, Purdue and even UC would be better choices for engineering. My youngest could easily decide that he wants to be a fry cook on Venus......And the party life at OSU could prove a bit too tempting.

Iirc, they actually referred to the category as “undergraduate teaching “, and I believe class size figured in - which is another important consideration for those like my son.

“First application” and first choice are different things, too. Many OSU kids of late seem to get shifted off to satellite campuses for their freshman year. My other nephew was among those, and it was not what he would have chosen.
I come from a long line of Miami alums, but the culture of that school has taken a turn for the worse over the last 10-15 yrs. It’s still a fine school, but the alcohol and drug culture should concern any parent.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Ask Purdue people the toughest Engineering school in Indiana and they say Rose-Hulman, no hesitation. In Ohio, it's Case. Michigan? The former GMI, now Kettering. You really can't go wrong, if you know what you want. The larger state schools are great when you're not quite sure because they have a diversity of programs. A prof at Purdue asked me how they got me away from UToledo. Like Akron, Toledo is great at what they're great at, but the options are much narrower. If coming out of high school I'd heard of "Northwestern Business College-Technical Center" (University of Northwestern Ohio)? A university for greaseheads! You bet.
Unless you have the money, the value of a Purdue and Ohio State (even Cincinnati with its mandatory coop program) over a Rose Hulman and Case is something to consider.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
True, those place are $$. My baby cousins' kid, being maybe the 4th or 5th person in our family history to go to college went to Kettering and I think only 3rd to actually finish. Did his co-op in freakin Germany. Could have chosen his salary but FBI was too intriguing. Even they I guess pay well cuz baby cousin been traveling the world on his new found nickels.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
My kid got great advice from one of his high school teachers. He had a full ride, a Harrison Scholarship, on the table from Miami, a great school. His teacher told him to go to the best school he could get into and not focus on the money aspect. He passed up two of the top 25 for another top 25 with a major that fit his interests, in an in internationally renowned school within the chosen university. In the end, the name of that school on his resume opened all kinds of doors. I'm not saying it always makes a difference, but the school name at the top of that degree can pay huge dividends in the long run.
 
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