Cali_Eagle
Active member
A nitpick comment here, DePauw is in Indiana, not in Ohio.
Urbana University To Cease Operations
- Thread starter radiodaveagain
- Start date
A nitpick comment here, DePauw is in Indiana, not in Ohio.
Auggie
Well-known member
There are tons of these small colleges across the country that had some focal point mission at one point. Many use to be single sex schools like Notre Dame College, some were religiously affiliated schools of smaller denominations like the Quakers at Malone or 4 year trade schools like the many nursing colleges. Many have financial challenges because their older grads were at these schools for these focuses and were not always the most successful therefore could not give back large donations to fund buildings but most importantly the endowment. Many will be shuttering in the coming years as these models will not be desirable in the higher education market place.
But wait there is more to come. Endowments are the life blood of Universities and are a key metric used by US News in their rankings to show health of an institution. Too many Colleges ingored these and now will be time to pay the piper. Let's look at a couple Ohio schools in regard to this importance. Denison University is a top 50 Nationally ranked liberal arts school that many folks in Ohio doesn't even know exists yet they are a powerhouse in $s with a loyal alumni base that feeds and endowment that is over $880 million. But the donations are only a part of the equation, they invested in their CIOs to the point they are rock stars in the college community and have had stellar success at balancing investment risk to the point that they get better returns then many Ivy League schools. They can weather a Pandemic and many other storms because of this. Now on the other hand is Xavier University. They are double the under grad enrollment of Denison, have an additional 2,000 grad students, national exposure with a high level Div I basketball team, and the Jesuit name brand behind it yet their endowment is not even 25% of Denison's at $200 million. Sticker price for tuition is $40K, how are they going to be able to off set this cost to the majority of their students who are now affected by the Covid-19 and have enough $s in the endowment to also weather the related crazy market conditions? The public schools like Akron & Wright St. have the State to fall back on, who does Xavier? And when they start to shed enrollment this problem will be further magnified. The schools like Xavier are the next waive to be worried about.
But wait there is more to come. Endowments are the life blood of Universities and are a key metric used by US News in their rankings to show health of an institution. Too many Colleges ingored these and now will be time to pay the piper. Let's look at a couple Ohio schools in regard to this importance. Denison University is a top 50 Nationally ranked liberal arts school that many folks in Ohio doesn't even know exists yet they are a powerhouse in $s with a loyal alumni base that feeds and endowment that is over $880 million. But the donations are only a part of the equation, they invested in their CIOs to the point they are rock stars in the college community and have had stellar success at balancing investment risk to the point that they get better returns then many Ivy League schools. They can weather a Pandemic and many other storms because of this. Now on the other hand is Xavier University. They are double the under grad enrollment of Denison, have an additional 2,000 grad students, national exposure with a high level Div I basketball team, and the Jesuit name brand behind it yet their endowment is not even 25% of Denison's at $200 million. Sticker price for tuition is $40K, how are they going to be able to off set this cost to the majority of their students who are now affected by the Covid-19 and have enough $s in the endowment to also weather the related crazy market conditions? The public schools like Akron & Wright St. have the State to fall back on, who does Xavier? And when they start to shed enrollment this problem will be further magnified. The schools like Xavier are the next waive to be worried about.
Auggie
Well-known member
Also in related news Harvard got $8 million from the Federal Govt in the “Education Stabilization Fund," portion of the stimulus plan. For those unaware college aged kids are not getting any stimulus $s, instead the Universities get the $s and redirect to needy students based on a formula based around pell grants. A lot of folks are not happy about this as the Universities are picking who gets the $s and not the Govt.
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
Wow. Those are some very interesting #s
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
Really good point. "Institution of Higher Learning" is a misnomer in the current era. These places exist to generate revenue. There is no logical reason that a place like Oberlin with (as was mentioned earlier) 3/4 of a BILLION dollars of endowment is charging $55k/year in tuition. There problem is they don't want to evolve. They, typically, don't think they need to.
When U of Phoenix started to gain notoriety it & its peers were called "diploma factories". Who called them that - the "established" universities that wanted to continue the model where everyone should attend a 4 year school immediately after hs graduation. Now, "established" schools are closing there doors and there are more ways to received advanced schooling online than every before.
For sports fans, the established model makes sense to us because that's what we have always know. Going forward, it is highly likely there will be LESS collegiate sports simply because there will be less physical colleges & universities.
Auggie
Well-known member
I really think the Div I Universities should go to a Div III model for their sports program and the high level athletes should be in Academies to develop their athletic skills, basically what the rest of the world does. It would save these schools a ton of $s and align their focus to the mission of educating students not providing a pseudo adult bubble for 18-22 year olds.
OUcats82
Well-known member
You raise some great points here.
I think the current generation of young people heading into college are pretty discerning and are seeing that while the new fancy buildings are nice and all, it may not be worth the price tag-especially if mom and dad (or grandpa etc.) aren't footing the bill. While I am personally a fan of traditional college instruction, I know it's not for everyone and online is more practical in many ways. Say what you want about their beliefs etc. but places like Liberty and Indiana Wesleyan are making serious hay with their online programs. There's a reason why traditional colleges and universities are investing in a lot of infrastructure to offer online and other distance learning programs. It ain't your grandpa's correspondence course.
I personally want to go back for my master's degree and while I like the idea of going part-time in person, an online program may be more practical. I definitely want to learn more, but my motivation is more for earning potential than enlightenment at this point in life, so if the quality of learning/instruction isn't as high by going online, I could live with that if it gives me more career opportunities. Right or wrong, most employers just want to see that you have the degree(s) then teach you their way of doing things.
WarriorDee
Active member
John Carroll University fared pretty well on the list.
ohiopup
Well-known member
Helps keep the riff-raff out... like some places that charge $5+~$10+ for a domestic beer = Helps keep the riff-raff out!!!
:>---
SALT
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Lenders of student loans don’t discriminate. Money is money.
NothingButTheTruth
Well-known member
Here is a web site that grades the financial health of all private colleges. It isn’t a pretty picture and this was from fall 2019 before the viral outbreak. Urbana received a C grade and there were tons of schools with lower grades than that. You can kiss most of those goodbye.
Dawn Of The Dead: For Hundreds Of The Nation’s Private Colleges, It’s Merge Or Perish
How financially fit is your Alma mater? Forbes' 2019 College Financial Grades paint a grim picture for most.www.forbes.com
Thanks for posting this link. Was happy to see the school my son will be playing ball for next year was in the highest tier of both the Financial GPA and the Financial Grade.
scbuckeye99
Well-known member
I started wondering last night what must be going through the minds of the students at UU right now, but especially those who were there because it offered them a chance to compete at the next level. I'm sure some will latch on somewhere right away but for others this may have been it sadly.
Auggie
Well-known member
While not in great shape John Carroll is better off than most. One of the keys is that unlike many other smaller Jesuit schools they didn't go the Div I athletics model which is a big drain on resources, they also have by today's standards modest campus facilities.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
Class warfare accusations will not be entertained.
Ivy League schools slammed for netting millions in virus bailouts
The country's most prestigious universities including Harvard, Princeton and Yale are among the beneficiaries of Washington's $2trillion economic rescue package.
BlueBeard36
Member
Will Hiram College survive? I heard they've been struggling for a bit now...
Auggie
Well-known member
Along with the before mentioned Wittenberg they are the struggling schools in the more academic based North Coast Conference. While admissions is more competitive than the OAC schools their puny 1200 student enrollment and even punier $73 million endowment is problematic while trying to attract students. I could see these two schools dropping out and the NCC picking up the local University Athletic Conference schools Case Western & Carnegie Mellon.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
Good call Auggie. I also like the model where the school focuses are being top notch in one sports program while they participate in other sports on a lower, less expensive level.
On another note, I can't feel too bad about a school going under that relies on kids chasing their sports dreams to fund their school.
BlueBeard36
Member
Could probably say that about every d2 and d3 school
Auggie
Well-known member
After thinking on this a bit more this is really just the final chapter in this monster we call youth athletics.
1) Since when did Div III schools start to "offer" student-athletes? These kids now take official visits and have these highly stylized Tweets with the school unis and logos looking like Ohio State just offered them a scholarship. By the way they take check or credit cards for deposits to hold your spot.
2) Tying into this is the various sports travel/aau/jo organizations post a list of all the colleges their players were "offered". I don't know where half these schools listed are located yet Club QRS has over 40 of them offering their players. Guess what mom and dad, your 10 year old could be looking at these options some day sign up today.
3) Then the ultimate circle jerk, the Div III signing ceremony. I get that it is really cool that a kid is welcomed and going to get a chance to play sports in college but do you really need to trot out a group of students in front of their High School back drop wearing their college gear to sign what is basically a fake document? Then again I guess it makes mom and dad feel better about all the $s they spent over the years.
1) Since when did Div III schools start to "offer" student-athletes? These kids now take official visits and have these highly stylized Tweets with the school unis and logos looking like Ohio State just offered them a scholarship. By the way they take check or credit cards for deposits to hold your spot.
2) Tying into this is the various sports travel/aau/jo organizations post a list of all the colleges their players were "offered". I don't know where half these schools listed are located yet Club QRS has over 40 of them offering their players. Guess what mom and dad, your 10 year old could be looking at these options some day sign up today.
3) Then the ultimate circle jerk, the Div III signing ceremony. I get that it is really cool that a kid is welcomed and going to get a chance to play sports in college but do you really need to trot out a group of students in front of their High School back drop wearing their college gear to sign what is basically a fake document? Then again I guess it makes mom and dad feel better about all the $s they spent over the years.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
As far as I can see the D3 "offer" became a thing once it became cool for kids to humble brag on social media about how "thankful and blessed" they are for every offer they receive.
scbuckeye99
Well-known member
3) We have an end of year signing ceremony for everyone from Juco cross country to D1 FBS football. It's completely ceremonial as you mentioned and I would love to know how, when and why this all began because while I'm not a huge fan of it, if we don't do it then mom and dad point out that school A and school B do it so why not us. Same goes for social media posts. If you're not posting some celebratory on twitter or facebook about the girls jv soccer team winning a scrimmage there's heck to pay from parents.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
While not in as good of shape as the heavily endowed juggernauts like Oberlin and Dennison, I would be shocked if Wittenberg doesn't survive this. While their current position isn't great by any means, their endowment and ability to fundraise are much stronger than several smaller private colleges in the state. If they don't survive, there's going to be a massive horde that don't survive.
As far as league affiliation, with their athletic spending habits and big ambitions in both football and basketball I think they should be going back to the more athletic-oriented OAC whenever a school like Wilmington bites the dust.
As far as league affiliation, with their athletic spending habits and big ambitions in both football and basketball I think they should be going back to the more athletic-oriented OAC whenever a school like Wilmington bites the dust.
A lot of truth here. Endowments will be hey as to whether a lot of schools survive. Less than $100 million? I don't like their chances. And if they do survive, they won’t look like they did before the crisis.
If colleges are online in the fall, I see a lot of kids taking a year off. That will further cripple revenue. I’d hate to be a college president right now.
I recall reading a small d3 school in either Indiana or Ohio had a 97% extracurricular rate for their student body. That was about 2012 or 2013 when I read that.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
FWIW, Case Western Reserve was a charter member of the NCAC They seem happy to continue onward in the UAA as a full member, rubbing elbows with the likes of Emory, Washington U. in St. Louis, Chicago, NYU, etc.
Since I'm fascinated by endowments, these are the endowments of the 8 UAA schools as of 2020's issue of U.S. News & World Report.
Emory - $6.5 billion
Washington U. in St. Louis - $6.5 billion
Chicago - $6.1 billion
NYU - $3.6 billion
Rochester - $2.3 billion
Case Western Reserve - $1.9 billion
Carnegie Mellon - $1.72 billion
Brandeis - $1.04 billion
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
I know it's for the kids, but I hate these ceremonies because those who don't know better think the kid is getting athletic scholarship money to attend the school which then perpetuates the myth that there is a ton of athletic scholarship money out there for the next batch of "all-city block" caliber talent to chase. I don't even like it when a kid has a signing ceremony when he or she is going to walk-on at a school that awards athletic scholarships.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
To expand on my point about how many smaller college coaches' #1 job is to use their sport to attract students. I know a coach at a D2 college. The university does not fund the full amount of scholarships that are allowed in that sport. The coach has led the program to conference championships and team berths to NCAA nationals. The coach has also had multiple athletes achieve All-American status and has produced a national champion under his tutelage. Does the university care about all the team and individual successes? Barely. Does the university reward the coach with more funding to recruit better quantity or quality of athletes? Nope. All the university wants is for him to bring in "x number" of kids a year to be on the team, and they've even tied his scholarship funding to how many kids are on his team. In order to get more scholarship money, he has to recruit more walk-ons. It seems odd, but it's more common than not at the collegiate level. Bodies pay bills, and success in the fringe sports doesn't move the needle for alumni donations the way it does in the major sports.
Last edited: