TRAC 2021

[dappling]

Loser argument on your part.

Last year CCHS had 7 kids enter the season with DI offers. I believe Avon had one. CCHS has more that will earn one.

2018 CCHS was loaded. Blaming that game on Durden is a joke. That class was special at CCHS. As good as vouchers and endowments could collect.

2013 is petty? Why? Deshone Kizer, Braswell, Winters, Miles, Green, Moses, Ward, good lord. Unsure where you got your enrollment info either? Going by the OHSAA CC had 375 boys (10-12) in 2013 and 219 (10-12) this past season.

OHSAA > School Resources > School Enrollment Figures > Tournament and Governance Enrollment Figures 2013-2015

OHSAA > School Resources > School Enrollment Figures

My biggest problem with CC is their fans who do not admit their advantages or the blatant fact that they are gaming the system.

You obviously follow Toledo sports. One thing that has struck me lately has been Toledo CC’s declining enrollment. In the late 80’s, they were over 1000. They were D2 in football in recent memory.

What is up there? Are they trying to keep the enrollment down or is the enrollment drop indicative of Toledo’s population drop?

I am starting to wonder about Toledo CC’s long term viability.

 

[NLLBEST]

Is that 375 w/ or without comptetive balance? I could be completely wrong, so thank you for calling me out if I was, but I was looking in the yearbooks around that 2012-2014 era and my jaw dropped because they had less than 100 people in each class.

And miraculously had 75 kids on the freshman football teams those years.

 

[CCHS93]

You obviously follow Toledo sports. One thing that has struck me lately has been Toledo CC’s declining enrollment. In the late 80’s, they were over 1000. They were D2 in football in recent memory.

What is up there? Are they trying to keep the enrollment down or is the enrollment drop indicative of Toledo’s population drop?

I am starting to wonder about Toledo CC’s long term viability.

Its in the oldest area of Toledo. Its feeder schools have mostly closed or gotten a lot smaller. Blessed Sacrament and Regina Coeli are the two main Catholic grade schools that feed it. OLPH and St Pats a little too. But there used to be St Agnes, St Catherines, St Johns, St Adalberts, St Hedwigs, and a lot more. The definition of a middle class house changed and many families moved. The areas near Central are mostly lower income.

It still gets kids from other schools, just not as many. On the girls BB team their starters are all CYO girls from St Pats, St Rose, and All Saints. Vargas was a Sylvania kid but used to be at Blessed Sacrament. Sennett was a WLS kid but played CYO sports for Blessed Sacrament.

The city of Toledo's lack of redevelopment and replacement of its housing stock has affected Central a lot. If it was located near the south end or in Perrysburg or something, its numbers would be higher.

But its 100 years old and blessed and cursed by its location.

 

[CCHS93]

You surely realize that Whitmer it a closed enrollment school. That mean if you want to go to Whitmer you need to live in there school district. Also vouchers are not used at other public schools those that attend a different public school is called open enrollment and you don't have to live in a failing school district to open enroll.

Where did Keller live?

 

[irish_buffalo]

Where did Keller live?

Michigan, his dad is a teacher/coach which means his children can attend. Still closed district you dope.

 

[ayCC!]

You obviously follow Toledo sports. One thing that has struck me lately has been Toledo CC’s declining enrollment. In the late 80’s, they were over 1000. They were D2 in football in recent memory.

What is up there? Are they trying to keep the enrollment down or is the enrollment drop indicative of Toledo’s population drop?

I am starting to wonder about Toledo CC’s long term viability.

Their numbers are recently starting to take an upturn, their freshman class is the largest they have had in years. Their new principal has pretty much been a godsend after an era of bouncing around different administrators. Whatever Parkins is doing it is working.

 

[irish_buffalo]

You obviously follow Toledo sports. One thing that has struck me lately has been Toledo CC’s declining enrollment. In the late 80’s, they were over 1000. They were D2 in football in recent memory.

What is up there? Are they trying to keep the enrollment down or is the enrollment drop indicative of Toledo’s population drop?

I am starting to wonder about Toledo CC’s long term viability.

In the late 90's/early 00's CC had a decision to make. Their feeders were closing, they were bleeding, and getting their heads kicked in by SJ and SF. They knew they had to make a move, like many urban "Catholic" schools did across the state and they started actively recruiting because football makes money.

In 2005 Ohio expanded its voucher program and notice how much the school has changed from then to now. CC also has old money endowments that keep it propped up. At some point they will tip the other way but with the voucher expansion they are saved again. If not for vouchers they would be closed and not have 3 state championships.

I've said numerous times, I get it, it is survival, but when the old CC faithful want to be disingenuous about the success of their football teams I have to call BS.

 

[irish_buffalo]

Their numbers are recently starting to take an upturn, their freshman class is the largest they have had in years. Their new principal has pretty much been a godsend after an era of bouncing around different administrators. Whatever Parkins is doing it is working.

I keep hearing this mantra but the numbers simply do not add up or conform.

2013: 375 boys grades 10-12 (no CB, it was not instituted then).

2020: 219 boys grades 10-12.

Enrollment continues to drop but football talent continues to grow. Amazing.

This principal wont last either. The position pays incredibly poorly and is simply a resume builder.

 

[ayCC!]

I keep hearing this mantra but the numbers simply do not add up or conform.

2013: 375 boys grades 10-12.

2020: 219 boys grades 10-12.

Enrollment continues to drop but football talent continues to grow. Amazing.

This principal wont last either. The position pays incredibly poorly and is simply a resume builder.

I can tell you that he definitely will. Hernandez left because of the stupid controversy she made and pretty much wrecked her reputation with the students. Parkins looks like he actually wants to stay.

Those numbers are going up. Don't know what else to tell you.

 

[CCHS93]

Michigan, his dad is a teacher/coach which means his children can attend. Still closed district you dope.

My point is that they bend rules when they want. Also, it is there choice to restrict enrollment. Why would they want to force that on other schools and districts?

 

[dappling]

My point is that they bend rules when they want. Also, it is there choice to restrict enrollment. Why would they want to force that on other schools and districts?

That is not a Whitmer football thing. Almost all schools with closed enrollment let teachers who live out of district bring their kids into the district tuition free. It is a collectively bargained perk.

 

[TRAC Football]

My point is that they bend rules when they want. Also, it is there choice to restrict enrollment. Why would they want to force that on other schools and districts?

Why would they have open enrollment when they are already capped. Every student who enrolls to a school who is capped costs the district money. The more kids over the cap, the more money they lose.

 

[eastisbest]

But its 100 years old and blessed and cursed by its location.

Still got that old school Cherry St mentality. The voucher kids will realize soon enough they are just house servants. If Cherry St alums had focused on its mandate instead of slum-lording, that neigbhorhood would be mixed-race gentrified. But it's easier to blame the rest of the city you so dispise being part of.

 

[ToledoGuy]

Why would they have open enrollment when they are already capped. Every student who enrolls to a school who is capped costs the district money. The more kids over the cap, the more money they lose.

Not receiving special treatment from the state and favorable outcomes based on SES manipulation and naive perspectives on how things work is a foreign idea for most private schoolers, so give him.a break for not understanding how shafted larger high schools are for no reason other than the fact that they made the mistake of needing to service more children.

 

[smurfyeah19]

Wow it got heated in here lol.

Problem with Toledo is Columbus & southern states if we’re being honest. The area simply is not growing, many are moving to Central Ohio, or being relocated out of state for jobs. The growth in places like Charlotte, Charleston, Nashville, Atlanta, anywhere in Texas, is stunning. It’s leading to places dying off and needing to find new avenues to continue on. Cant fault any private school for going for as many students as possible in Toledo, OH.

It truly is stunning around Columbus how quickly it is growing and how affluent the area is as a whole. Also it’s noticeably younger. Meanwhile downtown is one of the worst cities I’ve ever been to if we’re being honest. Few decent places to live, no real stores or shopping, terrible neighborhoods close by, few bars. It’s simply not sustainable

 

[eastisbest]

... Cant fault any private school for going for as many students as possible in Toledo, OH.

You can't when their stated sales pitch for being is personal sacrifice and they openly abdicate that?

If they can't stay within their own stated bounds for existing, when their state scores for vouchered students is lower than the schools that must follow public rules to use public money, when those vouchers are used to build advertising brochures for sports, why should they be trusted to educate with public money?

What kind of slim shadies are running those places? The more the private school grads post here, the more we see just how badly those schools have failed. "100 years" to build an endowment in a stock market out of control and they still need public money to run their private company?

No rules, is that what you're proposing? If they can build and maintain elementary schools in Guatamala then call their buddies at the local to write articles what great people they are, they can maintain their schools in the states. But that's not "good business?" Anything goes?

They are PRIVATE. If they want to run PUBLIC schools than I'm fine with it, run by PUBLIC rules. There is no problem finding fault with them in the norm. This latest was beyond the pale.

 

[irish_buffalo]

You can't when their stated sales pitch for being is personal sacrifice and they openly abdicate that?

If they can't stay within their own stated bounds for existing, when their state scores for vouchered students is lower than the schools that must follow public rules to use public money, when those vouchers are used to build advertising brochures for sports, why should they be trusted to educate with public money?

What kind of slim shadies are running those places? The more the private school grads post here, the more we see just how badly those schools have failed. "100 years" to build an endowment in a stock market out of control and they still need public money to run their private company?

No rules, is that what you're proposing? If they can build and maintain elementary schools in Guatamala then call their buddies at the local to write articles what great people they are, they can maintain their schools in the states. But that's not "good business?" Anything goes?

They are PRIVATE. If they want to run PUBLIC schools than I'm fine with it, run by PUBLIC rules. There is no problem finding fault with them in the norm. This latest was beyond the pale.

Bingo.

 

[nwwarrior09]

I am starting to wonder about Toledo CC’s long term viability.

They don't have any long-term viability and would already be closed without vouchers.

20+ years ago they either needed to get their school/church community all onboard with starting to gentrify/redevelop their immediate neighborhood or they needed to quickly plan and heavily politick the diocese to make a move and build a new school campus somewhere in south Toledo with easy access to future growth in Perrysburg and Monclova Twp.

They did neither, and are now fully dependent on the voucher program for survival.

 

[ToledoGuy]

They don't have any long-term viability and would already be closed without vouchers.

20+ years ago they either needed to get their school/church community all onboard with starting to gentrify/redevelop their immediate neighborhood or they needed to quickly plan and heavily politick the diocese to make a move and build a new school campus somewhere in south Toledo with easy access to future growth in Perrysburg and Monclova Twp.

They did neither, and are now fully dependent on the voucher program for survival.

That's what DCC did by moving from Sandwich Ave in Detroit out to Novi and it has done wonders for them. How typically Toledo of Central Catholic to do the same thing and expect different results.

 

[irish_buffalo]

That's what DCC did by moving from Sandwich Ave in Detroit out to Novi and it has done wonders for them. How typically Toledo of Central Catholic to do the same thing and expect different results.

DCC actually moved several times. The last two moves were due directly to changing demographics. In 2005 the decision was made to move to Novi. Why? Because school age population in Redford was dwindling. Even says so on their website.

Detroit Catholic Central High School | Mission & History

www.catholiccentral.net

 

[eastisbest]

And there was no same clientell school waiting to greet DCC. SJJ wasn't ahead of that curve in Toledo. They created that curve. Central would have to become Fulton/Henry Central to replicate what DCC did. I suppose they could go north across the border. It would be a good thing. Maybe someone could put a school in the building on Cherry St?

 

[ToledoGuy]

And there was no same clientell school waiting to greet DCC. SJJ wasn't ahead of that curve in Toledo. They created that curve. Central would have to become Fulton/Henry Central to replicate what DCC did. I suppose they could go north across the border. It would be a good thing. Maybe someone could put a school in the building on Cherry St?

I always wondered why TCC didn't look for something in Perrysburg area right when they were growing. I always felt like there were a lot of Perrysburg/Rossford guys there while I was in HS, and there is more than enough land to pull it off.

And yeah, you know a Charter school would swipe that for some nice checks from the state for a few years. Hell, Toledo School for the Arts might like that, and give the athletics complexes to TPS.

 

[eastisbest]

I always wondered why TCC didn't look for something in Perrysburg area right when they were growing. I always felt like there were a lot of Perrysburg/Rossford guys there while I was in HS, and there is more than enough land to pull it off.

And yeah, you know a Charter school would swipe that for some nice checks from the state for a few years. Hell, Toledo School for the Arts might like that, and give the athletics complexes to TPS.

Artists can ball.

St. John's was a downtown school, WAY back in the day. Then it did what an ethical private entity should do when the biz model fails, they pocketed politicians for public money, uh, I mean they closed. Not sure actually who saw the opportunity and initiated conversation but I believe the story was told to me, there were north enders involved and The Andersons looking to get rid of land in the Toledo half of their shadow valley property and the economics were moving to the western parts. So essentially it was Central Catholic people who recreated St. Johns, maybe.

 

[ToledoGuy]

Artists can ball.

St. John's was a downtown school, WAY back in the day. Then it did what an ethical private entity should do when the biz model fails, they pocketed politicians for public money, uh, I mean they closed. Not sure actually who saw the opportunity and initiated conversation but I believe the story was told to me, there were north enders involved and The Andersons looking to get rid of land in the Toledo half of their shadow valley property and the economics were moving to the western parts. So essentially it was Central Catholic people who recreated St. Johns, maybe.

I had always heard from my fathers side (all Gesu to SFS grads, so the VERY Catholic side lol) that SJJ coming around had something to do with some families not being fans of the way St. Francis and Central were being run (because their kids weren't exactly model citizens for the schools) and just deciding to start their own high school, had no idea it was THE family. They were doing the "disgruntled parents starting a new sports team for their wacko kids" before it was cool.

 

[eastisbest]

I had always heard from my fathers side (all Gesu to SFS grads, so the VERY Catholic side lol) that SJJ coming around had something to do with some families not being fans of the way St. Francis and Central were being run (because their kids weren't exactly model citizens for the schools) and just deciding to start their own high school, had no idea it was THE family. They were doing the "disgruntled parents starting a new sports team for their wacko kids" before it was cool.

So they decided to start their own school of not model citizens? Isn't that special!

 

[chs1971]

I always wondered why TCC didn't look for something in Perrysburg area right when they were growing. I always felt like there were a lot of Perrysburg/Rossford guys there while I was in HS, and there is more than enough land to pull it off.

And yeah, you know a Charter school would swipe that for some nice checks from the state for a few years. Hell, Toledo School for the Arts might like that, and give the athletics complexes to TPS.

TAPE

For athletic students, CAPE was place to be

From 1977 to the mid-1990s, some of Cincinnatis best student athletes spent their school days at the sports-focused Cincinnati Academy of Physical Education.

www.wcpo.com

 

[irish_buffalo]

TAPE

For athletic students, CAPE was place to be

From 1977 to the mid-1990s, some of Cincinnatis best student athletes spent their school days at the sports-focused Cincinnati Academy of Physical Education.

www.wcpo.com

Carlos Snow.

 

[irish_buffalo]

I had always heard from my fathers side (all Gesu to SFS grads, so the VERY Catholic side lol) that SJJ coming around had something to do with some families not being fans of the way St. Francis and Central were being run (because their kids weren't exactly model citizens for the schools) and just deciding to start their own high school, had no idea it was THE family. They were doing the "disgruntled parents starting a new sports team for their wacko kids" before it was cool.

That is a good story. What are you? A McHugh or McClellan?

I always heard it had to do with Jesuit education. Cleveland and Cincy have Jesuit all boy schools (Iggy & X) and Toledo was not going to be an exception.

 

[ToledoGuy]

TAPE

For athletic students, CAPE was place to be

From 1977 to the mid-1990s, some of Cincinnatis best student athletes spent their school days at the sports-focused Cincinnati Academy of Physical Education.

www.wcpo.com

I mean, that's essentially what Central is already if we're being honest. With the amount of vouchers they get year in, year out, they're a Charter School with the world "Catholic" stapled on to make themselves feel good.

 

[CCHS93]

I mean, that's essentially what Central is already if we're being honest. With the amount of vouchers they get year in, year out, they're a Charter School with the world "Catholic" stapled on to make themselves feel good.

They have a good football coach that has attracted good talent. Their other programs are decent. When Dempsey finally leaves or retires, the landscape will change.