Top 3 Public/Top 3 Private Since 2000

OutlawAngel

OutlawAngel

Member
Keep it this simple, dating back to 2000, so almost 25 seasons, if you had to pick a clear-cut Top 3 Public School Programs, and Top 3 Private School Programs, who would they be? Based off some research, here's what I came up with.

Top 3 Public (In No Order)
Pickerington Central
Mentor
Maria Stein Marion Local

Top 5 Private (In No Order)
Cincinnati St. Xavier
Lakewood St. Edward
Akron Hoban
 
 
OutlawAngel said:
Keep it this simple, dating back to 2000, so almost 25 seasons, if you had to pick a clear-cut Top 3 Public School Programs, and Top 3 Private School Programs, who would they be? Based off some research, here's what I came up with.

Top 3 Public (In No Order)
Pickerington Central
Mentor
Maria Stein Marion Local

Top 5 Private (In No Order)
Cincinnati St. Xavier
Lakewood St. Edward
Akron Hoban
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I agree with your Top 3 Private and 2 of the Public schools but Mentor isn’t anywhere near the Top 3 since 2000. Kirtland, Coldwater, Hilliard Davidson, Steubenville just to name a few. Top 10 ok but definitely not Top 3.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
I agree with your Top 3 Private and 2 of the Public schools but Mentor isn’t anywhere near the Top 3 since 2000. Kirtland, Coldwater, Hilliard Davidson, Steubenville just to name a few. Top 10 ok but definitely not Top 3.
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These type of threads are flawed. We have divisions for a reason. If you go just by titles then I agree with you. But if Mentor played Coldwater, Kirtland, Marion local etc 25 times in a row, Mentor would win way more than they'd lose. Again that's why we have divisions

Mentor has way more up season than Hilliard Davidson and has been more consistent but HD has 2 titles to Mentors none.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
These type of threads are flawed. We have divisions for a reason. If you go just by titles then I agree with you. But if Mentor played Coldwater, Kirtland, Marion local etc 25 times in a row, Mentor would win way more than they'd lose. Again that's why we have divisions

Mentor has way more up season than Hilliard Davidson and has been more consistent but HD has 2 titles to Mentors none.
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While this topic focuses on last 23 years it is very relevant to consider Mentor may be a regional power but certainly not quite a state power. They have zero titles despite being one of largest high schools in state for years. They clearly don’t make the top five on this list. I would place these schools, in no particular order ahead of Mentor:
Pick Central, Hilliard Davidson, Marion Local, Coldwater, Minster, Kirtland, Chardon (have beat Mentor in scrimmages last three years). To be fair, Mentor has gone toe to toe with Iggy and Ed’s but has not gotten to the top of the mountain yet.
 
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fbrox said:
While this topic focuses on last 23 years it is very relevant to consider Mentor may be a regional power but certainly not quite a state power. They have zero titles despite being one of largest high schools in state for years. They clearly don’t make the top five on this list. I would place these schools, in no particular order ahead of Mentor:
Pick Central, Hilliard Davidson, Marion Local, Coldwater, Minster, Kirtland, Chardon (have beat Mentor in scrimmages last three years). To be fair, Mentor has gone toe to toe with Iggy and Ed’s but has not gotten to the top of the mountain yet.
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Again it goes by how you do these threads which is the flaw. Mentor would definitely beat smaller schools like Chardon (practice isn't a game ) , Kirtland , Minster, Coldwater, Marion local etc way more than they'd lose over the last 23-24 years.

We have divisions for a reason. Mentor has way more kids and should be expected to win more than lose to them

So if you just go by titles then yeah the list makes sense. We have divisions for a reason though and the mini colleges in d1 are quite different than privates in d3-d7 for example.

If you go just by titles then HD is obviously ahead of Mentor. But HD has way less consistency and way further deep runs than Mentor. Plus they have the region 2/3 advantage of having no private school mini colleges every playoff year until at least the final 4. Mentor has to go through Eds and Ignatius just to get to a final 4

Mentor and HD played in a 36-35 double OT . One play could have made it 1 title each with Mentor having way more consistency. But the one play didn't happen so again if it's just titles and that's it, HD obviously is ahead

Mentor hasn't been one of the biggest schools in quite awhile. You like to repeat this fallacy because you hate Mentor but we are 15 now and have been 8 or lower for awhile.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
These type of threads are flawed. We have divisions for a reason. If you go just by titles then I agree with you. But if Mentor played Coldwater, Kirtland, Marion local etc 25 times in a row, Mentor would win way more than they'd lose. Again that's why we have divisions

Mentor has way more up season than Hilliard Davidson and has been more consistent but HD has 2 titles to Mentors none.
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Call it whatever you want, the Mentor football program is not on par with Kirtland, Coldwater or Steubenville. Regarding Hilliard Davidson, yes Mentor has fewer losing seasons and maybe had more longer runs but it’s 2 state titles to 0. Davidson did more with less talent while their head coach was there (he retired 2 or 3 seasons ago). I’m not trying to knock Mentor, just simply stating they are not a top 3 public football program since 2000.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Call it whatever you want, the Mentor football program is not on par with Kirtland, Coldwater or Steubenville. Regarding Hilliard Davidson, yes Mentor has fewer losing seasons and maybe had more longer runs but it’s 2 state titles to 0. Davidson did more with less talent while their head coach was there (he retired 2 or 3 seasons ago). I’m not trying to knock Mentor, just simply stating they are not a top 3 public football program since 2000.
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Again if you just go by titles and that's it I agree with you. But those d3-d7 type schools are losing way more than winning vs Mentor since 2000. That's why again it's how you look at it

I'm just adding perspective on how subjective threads like this are. I don't really care how random message board guys rate my high school
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
Again if you just go by titles and that's it I agree with you. But those d3-d7 type schools are losing way more than winning vs Mentor since 2000. That's why again it's how you look at it
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The guy who created this thread had Marion Local so based on that, they were disregarding divisions.

If it’s just best teams/talent (college/NFL), Mentor still isn’t a Top 3 Public:

* Pickerington Central - multiple state titles & 0 losing seasons
* Hilliard Davidson - 2 state titles
* Dublin Coffman - 1 losing season, their best team (2007) lost 10-7 to St X, Mentor lost to X 27-0. Coffman has had 25+ Rivals Top 50 seniors, double what Mentor has during this time frame.

Springfield is now way ahead of Mentor but they obviously do not have the success over the 23 seasons. Colerain was at a higher lever than Mentor in the early 2000’s but has fallen off. Massillon could definitely challenge Mentor since 2000. I’m probably missing someone, these are just off the top of my head.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
The guy who created this thread had Marion Local so based on that, they were disregarding divisions.

If it’s just best teams/talent (college/NFL), Mentor still isn’t a Top 3 Public:

* Pickerington Central - multiple state titles & 0 losing seasons
* Hilliard Davidson - 2 state titles
* Dublin Coffman - 1 losing season, their best team (2007) lost 10-7 to St X, Mentor lost to X 27-0. Coffman has had 25+ Rivals Top 50 seniors, double what Mentor has during this time frame.

Springfield is now way ahead of Mentor but they obviously do not have the success over the 23 seasons. Colerain was at a higher lever than Mentor in the early 2000’s but has fallen off. Massillon could definitely challenge Mentor since 2000. I’m probably missing someone, these are just off the top of my head.
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Again if you go by titles then fine on HD. Pick central id put ahead of us regardless of titles

Give me a break on Coffman and Springfield. We've done way more than those schools while playing in a region with Iggy and eds and they have no privates in their regions. And they have no titles either

Massillon I see your point fine too as they are impressive We have beaten them head to head more than lost in that timeframe though . And they too have no titles in that span of time

Colerain I used to agree with too but not close now .
 
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MentorGrad2002 said:
These type of threads are flawed. We have divisions for a reason. If you go just by titles then I agree with you. But if Mentor played Coldwater, Kirtland, Marion local etc 25 times in a row, Mentor would win way more than they'd lose. Again that's why we have divisions

Mentor has way more up season than Hilliard Davidson and has been more consistent but HD has 2 titles to Mentors none.
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I think success within their respective divisions is the way to go when defining "programs" as opposed to best teams. I think a valid argument could be made for Mount Union being a better program than Ohio State over a couple of decades, even though they'd have no business on the same field.
 
queencitybuckeye said:
I think success within their respective divisions is the way to go when defining "programs" as opposed to best teams. I think a valid argument could be made for Mount Union being a better program than Ohio State over a couple of decades, even though they'd have no business on the same field.
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If you just go by titles then again I've said I agree.

I don't think high school vs college is a valid comparison. Ohio State is a national name. Most outside of Ohio don't care about Mount union. With high school fans they at least know who the smaller schools are.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
Again if you go by titles then fine on HD. Pick central id put ahead of us regardless of titles

Give me a break on Coffman and Springfield. We've done way more than those schools while playing in a region with Iggy and eds and they have no privates in their regions. And they have no titles either

Massillon I see your point fine too as they are impressive We have beaten them head to head more than lost in that timeframe though . And they too have no titles in that span of time

Colerain I used to agree with too but not close now .
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Mentor & Coffman are very similar. Talent wise, Coffman has had more college high end talent that Mentor, not my opinion but Rivals. As long as Springfield has their current head coach, Mentor will be at a talent disadvantage.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
Right. It's a lot harder to win as a public school in D1 and D2 than in D3-D7. The privates are a different animal in the top 2 divisions. The numbers show that since Hoban's rise
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You can’t have a single hole on your roster at this level. Could use Hoban the last two years as an example: phenomenal at every position group but didn’t have great QB play and lost the title game two years in a row.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Mentor & Coffman are very similar. Talent wise, Coffman has had more college high end talent that Mentor, not my opinion but Rivals. As long as Springfield has their current head coach, Mentor will be at a talent disadvantage.
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Mentor has 7 final fours in that span
4 state runner ups

Coffman has 1 final four but what beyond that ?

Mentor also has Eds and Ignatius in their region. Coffman hasn't had a big private school in their region

And neither have a title

It's not even a conversation

Between the big privates and recruiting public football schools, yeah it's hard to win. I don't know if we ever will. But you are to the point of underrating us now
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
You can’t have a single hole on your roster at this level. Could use Hoban the last two years as an example: phenomenal at every position group but didn’t have great QB play and lost the title game two years in a row.
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Oh yes definitely. We've had a few years with one hole on defense in particular at cb. Cost us a title game .
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
Right. It's a lot harder to win as a public school in D1 and D2 than in D3-D7. The privates are a different animal in the top 2 divisions. The numbers show that since Hoban's rise
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Can't forget TCC is in D-III for this year so not winning the state championship will be a big disappointment for them. Benedictine was in D-III last year and gave up on the season after they lost the first few games to very good teams, but had they actually tried, they would have been top 10 in D-III as well. SV-SM has been in D-III quite a bit as well. Ursuline is in D-III currently. I would say that in light of the fact TCC is in D-III and the others that winning in D-III against the private schools is almost as bad as the top 2 divisions, considering how TCC fared last year and what they have returning.
I would say there is a much bigger drop off once you get to D-IV and lower to be perfectly honest. But I agree with what you are saying for the most part.
 
simkon said:
Can't forget TCC is in D-III for this year so not winning the state championship will be a big disappointment for them. Benedictine was in D-III last year and gave up on the season after they lost the first few games to very good teams, but had they actually tried, they would have been top 10 in D-III as well. SV-SM has been in D-III quite a bit as well. Ursuline is in D-III currently. I would say that in light of the fact TCC is in D-III and the others that winning in D-III against the private schools is almost as bad as the top 2 divisions, considering how TCC fared last year and what they have returning.
I would say there is a much bigger drop off once you get to D-IV and lower to be perfectly honest. But I agree with what you are saying for the most part.
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Yeah ursuline has bounced between 3-5 and such over the years. Some great teams but I wouldn't put them into a class like what eds, Iggy hoban and some of those big cincy privates have been over the years.

Benny and st v about the same. All privates have a huge advantage to win titles of some sort across the divisions but I don't think of them in the same way as the mini colleges
 
fbrox said:
While this topic focuses on last 23 years it is very relevant to consider Mentor may be a regional power but certainly not quite a state power. They have zero titles despite being one of largest high schools in state for years. They clearly don’t make the top five on this list. I would place these schools, in no particular order ahead of Mentor:
Pick Central, Hilliard Davidson, Marion Local, Coldwater, Minster, Kirtland, Chardon (have beat Mentor in scrimmages last three years). To be fair, Mentor has gone toe to toe with Iggy and Ed’s but has not gotten to the top of the mountain yet.
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How about using this as a gauge:

Would Coldwater, Minster, Kirtland, Marion Local and Chardon have the same successes that they have had, while playing in the same region and division as Mentor?

Now use the same gausge in respect to Mentor being in those smaller schools regions and divisions.

That will answer your question about who is the better program.
 
Benchboss1 said:
How about using this as a gauge:

Would Coldwater, Minster, Kirtland, Marion Local and Chardon have the same successes that they have had, while playing in the same region and division as Mentor?

Now use the same gausge in respect to Mentor being in those smaller schools regions and divisions.

That will answer your question about who is the better program.
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consciousness-709143.jpg
 
Too many people on this board have zero respect for the smaller divisions (5-7) because they are not D1 and will tell you all the time that the best D5-7 schools would not fair well against their favorite D1 school. There are divisions for a reason, small schools which have had major success like Kirtland, Chardon, Coldwater and Marion Local should not just be dismissed because they are small. I think most everyone agree that Mount Union has a great football program but they have zero chance against Ohio State or other B1G schools. Give the small schools credit. Some of us, me included, would rather attend a small division game instead of watching the recruited D1 schools. I watch recruited football on Saturday.
 
Killer Nut said:
Too many people on this board have zero respect for the smaller divisions (5-7) because they are not D1 and will tell you all the time that the best D5-7 schools would not fair well against their favorite D1 school. There are divisions for a reason, small schools which have had major success like Kirtland, Chardon, Coldwater and Marion Local should not just be dismissed because they are small. I think most everyone agree that Mount Union has a great football program but they have zero chance against Ohio State or other B1G schools. Give the small schools credit. Some of us, me included, would rather attend a small division game instead of watching the recruited D1 schools. I watch recruited football on Saturday.
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Didn't see people dismissing them as nothing. If you go by just titles then they win . If you go by on the field, they wouldn't stand a chance against a program with no titles like Mentor overall. Would win 5 of 25 if they are lucky

I already gave my thoughts on mount union vs OSU. It isn't a comparison. Much like D1 vs 5-7 in difficulty and depth. Still cheer for a program like Kirtland. But most know it's a vast difference in the divisions

I see your point on the recruiting at higher levels. Mentor and many GCC programs are about as close to home grown as you'll get though. Of course no population in a school stays stagnant. But more of our back half roster leaves for other schools and chances than big time transfers come to us
 
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Killer Nut said:
Too many people on this board have zero respect for the smaller divisions (5-7) because they are not D1 and will tell you all the time that the best D5-7 schools would not fair well against their favorite D1 school. There are divisions for a reason, small schools which have had major success like Kirtland, Chardon, Coldwater and Marion Local should not just be dismissed because they are small. I think most everyone agree that Mount Union has a great football program but they have zero chance against Ohio State or other B1G schools. Give the small schools credit. Some of us, me included, would rather attend a small division game instead of watching the recruited D1 schools. I watch recruited football on Saturday.
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I think most of us are trying to say that comparing them as one group is dumb. D1 football and D7 football are barely even the same sport.

The small divisions have phenomenal programs that we all respect.
 
Killer Nut said:
Too many people on this board have zero respect for the smaller divisions (5-7) because they are not D1 and will tell you all the time that the best D5-7 schools would not fair well against their favorite D1 school. There are divisions for a reason, small schools which have had major success like Kirtland, Chardon, Coldwater and Marion Local should not just be dismissed because they are small. I think most everyone agree that Mount Union has a great football program but they have zero chance against Ohio State or other B1G schools. Give the small schools credit. Some of us, me included, would rather attend a small division game instead of watching the recruited D1 schools. I watch recruited football on Saturday.
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You are not wrong. The issue is when people try and say that a small school power is a better/more successful program that a big school power. That is comparing apples to oranges. Marion Local, a fantastic program, has no chance at beating a big school power. That is why this thread needs broken up into best public/parochial big school programs, say D1 and 2, and then the best small school public/parochial school programs, say D3 through 7.
 
No one is stopping anyones A.D. from picking up the phone and calling schools for a game. Given 16 Teams make the Playoffs it is now more than ever the time for teams from all Divisions to take a chance on a one off scheduling to put up or shut up. A one game loss isn't keeping any of the Top teams year in and Year out in any division from making the Playoffs.
 
TCSoup said:
No one is stopping anyones A.D. from picking up the phone and calling schools for a game. Given 16 Teams make the Playoffs it is now more than ever the time for teams from all Divisions to take a chance on a one off scheduling to put up or shut up. A one game loss isn't keeping any of the Top teams year in and Year out in any division from making the Playoffs.
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Marion local vs St Ed’s lol line it up
 
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