Too many Ohio teams scheduling out of state opponents

ELKSONE

GO ELKS!
Noticed several schools from Cincinnati, Dayton and Cleveland playing out of state opponents. Ohio schools should be forced to play other in state schools especially if they both have the same open dates. There are exceptions such as your school is near the border and it's easier to play a school 15 minutes across the state line than traveling 5 hours from one side of the state to the other. However I'm noticing schools from Maryland, Illinois and Canada playing Ohio teams. Doesn't really make from a cost and logistics perspective.
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
Noticed several schools from Cincinnati, Dayton and Cleveland playing out of state opponents. Ohio schools should be forced to play other in state schools especially if they both have the same open dates. There are exceptions such as your school is near the border and it's easier to play a school 15 minutes across the state line than traveling 5 hours from one side of the state to the other. However I'm noticing schools from Maryland, Illinois and Canada playing Ohio teams. Doesn't really make from a cost and logistics perspective.
I too would prefer games to stay in state. But the only way you can make that happen is by essentially forcing some Ohio teams to play the ones that have trouble scheduling. Does Centerville want to play a GCL team? When was the last time that happened?

Up here in Cleveland area, there has been a three team monopoly (Mentor, Ignatius, Eds) in big school football for some time. Nobody wants to play these guys.
 

Professor.Klump

Active member
Well when your long time conference votes you out, what the hell are you supposed to do??? It’s ok when you are getting your kicked for decades, but when you decide not to be a doormat anymore there’s suddenly not enough space for you. 80’s,90’s,00’s most of the time we were on the losing end and the GWOC/MVL was ok with that. We’re on a 9-10 year run, and now after all this time The Ramnation does not fit the GWOC/MVL agenda.

To answer your question, schools don’t really want to face competition, or man-up to a challenge. It’s definitely enough schools for all Ohio schools to be playing an Ohio school on Friday. I think most of the schools will hide in there conference until week 11. I also think this will become more common, out of state teams don’t know your rep, and are not scare to jump on the interstate..


RAMNATION ALMIGHTY
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
I too would prefer games to stay in state. But the only way you can make that happen is by essentially forcing some Ohio teams to play the ones that have trouble scheduling. Does Centerville want to play a GCL team? When was the last time that happened?
For example, why does La Salle have to host and destroy a team from Massachusetts in front of a nearly empty visitors' side while Centerville is playing Dunbar? These schools need to get together. Did La Salle simply miss an opportunity? Was Centerville not interested? Other factors?

La Salle travels to Buffalo in two weeks and while I'm sure the boys will enjoy visiting Niagara Falls, it's still a bit silly.
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
Up here in Cleveland area, there has been a three team monopoly (Mentor, Ignatius, Eds) in big school football for some time. Nobody wants to play these guys.
I wonder if adding a level of Harbins for losses would help. Is there some way to offer a school like Oak Hills, for instance, some level 3 points for losing to a GCL team with a bunch of wins?
 

Vincent and Regina

Well-known member
Noticed several schools from Cincinnati, Dayton and Cleveland playing out of state opponents. Ohio schools should be forced to play other in state schools especially if they both have the same open dates. There are exceptions such as your school is near the border and it's easier to play a school 15 minutes across the state line than traveling 5 hours from one side of the state to the other. However I'm noticing schools from Maryland, Illinois and Canada playing Ohio teams. Doesn't really make from a cost and logistics perspective.
Please explain to me this. Why did Loveland and Milford play twice? LaSalle played a team from Massachusetts and Elder played a team from Florida. Why because Milford and Loveland refused to play both and played each other for a second time.
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
Please explain to me this. Why did Loveland and Milford play twice? LaSalle played a team from Massachusetts and Elder played a team from Florida. Why because Milford and Loveland refused to play both and played each other for a second time.
I'm interested in this as well. Was it that LS and/or Elder didn't reach out? Did Loveland and Milford say no? Timing as to when open dates are realized?

Loveland and Milford would benefit greatly by playing excellent programs. Look at what schools like Winton Woods and Trotwood can build by taking on all comers.
 

HSFB Fan

Well-known member
There is several factors that comes into play,
1. GCLS is a 4 team high profile league. Not just any team can compete with these schools thus many schools would rather not schedule them causing these schools to travel to get games. (Trust me most would like to only travel 1 or 2 weeks not 4 or 5 due to $$$$$).
2. Your better teams should test the national waters. (Ohio generally compets will vs. the rest of the country).
3. Some ADs are lazy...
4. Some coaches want to try to cherry pick Ws

As far as the Milford / Loveland playing 2x in the same season there is nothing that any team really gains from doing this.
Winton woods and several other good programs could only find 9 games and WW has to go to MO to even make that.
It would be better for all especially since WW joins the ECC in 2021 to make something happen with these two teams.

SWOC having only 6 teams next year may be short lived. The GWOC looking to fill holes they may tap Edgewood,
CHL may be good expansion options for Mt Healthy, Ross or NW. If NW has a team next year.


Its tough but Leagues need to try to be 10 teams + scheduling 8 games vs. league opponents. The ECC did this for 2021 with Lebanon/LM and WW joining. Its going to be interesting the next couple years.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I think we best teach our students when they have an opportunity to see how they stack up. I'd like to see EVERY team near a border get an across border game if they can find a competitive program. The Pick Central-Detroit Cass game held at UToledo was a great fan experience. More like that. Toledo Whitmer and Central Catholic have regular games against some of Michigan's best. The Toledo Publics find games against similar neighborhoods like Ecorse and River Rouge, all within an affordable hour. They're games that are close enough the kids and fans see something different, get out of the same old neighborhoods.

It's zero sum isn't it? No one is not filling a schedule because of across border games.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
It's not whether in state vs. out of, it's good opponent vs. bad one. In any case...

Non starter, OHSAA can't. And even if you thought they could and should, then why not take the more logical step forward and require every team schedule at least 7 divisional or better yet regional opponents, if you wanted to improve the integrity of regional playoff qualification.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
Until the Harbin ratings are changed to reflect points for losing to a winning team, this problem with scheduling will be with us, forcing some teams to schedule out-of-state opponents. Here's an interesting point brought about by scheduling difficulties and teams not willing to play: Football North ( Clarkson) out of Canada has more Ohio opponents ( 6) this year than Ignatius ( 5).
 
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ELK Strong

Well-known member
Ohio has plenty of great opponents - St.X in Cincy, St. Eds in Cleveland, and Pick Central in Columbus to name a few. For the Elks, I am not sure what I do for OOC games. With the GWOC so strong and plenty of Harbins to make playoffs (Wayne, Springfield, Northmont, Springboro), we probably don't need to schedule one of those games. For the 3 OOC games starting next year, I would suggest the Elks playing 1 tough team and 2 cream puffs. The goal is the get IN the playoffs.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Noticed several schools from Cincinnati, Dayton and Cleveland playing out of state opponents. Ohio schools should be forced to play other in state schools especially if they both have the same open dates. There are exceptions such as your school is near the border and it's easier to play a school 15 minutes across the state line than traveling 5 hours from one side of the state to the other. However I'm noticing schools from Maryland, Illinois and Canada playing Ohio teams. Doesn't really make from a cost and logistics perspective.
None of the public's will play Mentor out of conference. We were forced to schedule football north in Canada along with Iggy and eds.

It's more of a problem with the Ohio schools dodging teams like us instead of it being our problem
 

hdvhsmgr

Well-known member
For the 3 OOC games starting next year, I would suggest the Elks playing 1 tough team and 2 cream puffs. The goal is the get IN the playoffs.
Centerville's 2020 OOC schedule includes Fairfield and Mason in Weeks 1-2. No word on Week 3, yet.
 

aged jock

Well-known member
72 D1 schools have comparatively deeper teams than all the others. Smaller numbers, especially in D3 and below can test the waters in one or two games, but they’ll need to run the table on the other games if the big boys win while the smaller schools are challenging themselves. Taking on a higher division team can mean jeopardizing your playoff prospects.

Injuries can be a challenge, also. Often the backup isn’t nearly as talented as the starter on a team with smaller numbers. It’s easy to say a great D5 team that beats a good D2 team should play a D2 schedule. One game is way different than a whole season schedule. 2 way players are more common the lower the division. Game in, game out it takes a toll.

The result is that the top tier teams have scheduling issues. Perhaps points for tough losses would ameliorate the problem, but not eliminate it.

Without interstate games, ratings among the states are like Ohio’s pre-playoffs intrastate ratings - strictly opinion. And mostly wrong, influenced more by other factors than just inherent quality.

I think interstate competition improves intrastate competition. Competition is what it’s about.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
None of the public's will play Mentor out of conference. We were forced to schedule football north in Canada along with Iggy and eds.

It's more of a problem with the Ohio schools dodging teams like us instead of it being our problem
You say "dodge", which is technically true, but in their world Stow vs. Solon vs. Mckinley vs. Euclid etc. takes as much "guts" as Mentor vs. Iggy so while deserved in some cases probably unfair to use that term loosely. (And I've been guilty too in Stark debates). One hint is you shouldn't need 9-1 to qualify for playoffs. 7 should in most cases imo.

What you want is a fair, competitive schedule and the options simply narrow the further up the flag pole. Leagues help obviously. Wish I had a better answer for you.
 

StateChampion2012

Well-known member
MAC schools struggle to find Non-Conference games so sometimes Indiana schools are the only option. Happened to Marion Local these last 2 years and happened to us in 2008. I actually would encourage us to find a large school in Indiana that wins a few games to schedule for week 2. The possible playoff points would be huge.
 

ELK Strong

Well-known member
Centerville's 2020 OOC schedule includes Fairfield and Mason in Weeks 1-2. No word on Week 3, yet.
Fairfield will be good again and Mason looks down this year. I would schedule a cream puff in week 3 since you are already playing 2 of the biggest schools (enrollment) in Ohio.
 

big medicine

Active member
Until the Harbin ratings are changed to reflect points for losing to a winning team, this problem with scheduling will be with us, forcing some teams to schedule out-of-state opponents. Here's an interesting point brought about by scheduling difficulties and teams not willing to play: Football North ( Clarkson) out of Canada has more Ohio opponents ( 6) this year than Ignatius ( 5).

Does any state have a system where there is recognition and points for quality loses ?

At first glance I would support some tweaking like this to our current system. A little incentive to show some testicular fortitude that seems to be in short supply these days.

Point out any potential drawbacks with incorporating something like this to our current system.
 

Vincent and Regina

Well-known member
I'm interested in this as well. Was it that LS and/or Elder didn't reach out? Did Loveland and Milford say no? Timing as to when open dates are realized?

Loveland and Milford would benefit greatly by playing excellent programs. Look at what schools like Winton Woods and Trotwood can build by taking on all comers.
I am not on the inside of any of the four schools, so I don't know if calls were made. I do know it is a lot easier to get a team from the east side to the west side and vice versa than from Tampa to Cincy and Boston to Cincy.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
Here is the thread from 2014:

 
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LostInSpace

New member
Does any state have a system where there is recognition and points for quality loses ?
Virginia has a "power point" system that includes points for losses.

It's pretty hard to find the right balance between points awarded for beating a bad opponent and points awarded for losing to a quality opponent. How do you make the reward high enough to make someone want to schedule a nearly unwinnable game just for the points?
 

Raider6309

Well-known member
None of the public's will play Mentor out of conference. We were forced to schedule football north in Canada along with Iggy and eds.

It's more of a problem with the Ohio schools dodging teams like us instead of it being our problem
You are in a public school league. Why didn’t you schedule Pick Central week 3?
 
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