Toledo Public School Football 2024

KingHorn419 said:
Is Lima Senior interested in staying? Are they just happy to have a home?
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I would think so tbh. Only other place they could go is MVL and try to make it 2 divisions with a northern division of Lima, Troy, Tipp, Sidney, Piqua and Greenville, I think this would be a solid conference. But Lima to the more southern schools in the MVL is quite a haul and would make crossover games unfavorable travel wise. Also the MVL is already at 10 teams so I don’t think they are too interested in expanding anyway. Also Lima is competitive in the Toledo league and they are winning. Hard to see them not being interested tbh, especially if they can’t find a new home I do think the Toledo schools might cut it off though due to a multitude of possible reasons. 1. Travel, Toledo to Lima is quite a haul on weekday games for volleyball and basketball and other sports. 2. Lima will probably dominate in a lot of sports and 3. With Lima they are at an uneven 7 teams, this is really only a big deal in football and doesn’t matter too much in other sports, but in football this can leave open weeks in week 4-10 and those aren’t the easiest weeks to fill a schedule. However, I really do hope Lima stays! I really like the move overall, and they deserve to have a secure league, and overall they strengthen the Toledo city league, I think the city schools are happy to have Lima, but we will see how it plays out over the next few years!
 
Personally, I think the TCL will opt out of the 4th year. The revenue sports will always be the driver of these type of decisions, and let's face it, LSH is dominant in football and hoops in the league. We've done pretty well in many of the girls sports too. I don't think the folks in Toledo are too happy with us "hicks" coming up there and dominating the league. Travel is also a concern. Lima folks, check our history, will go anywhere. I'm not so sure the Toledo folks are good with traveling here..
 
Spartan87 said:
Personally, I think the TCL will opt out of the 4th year. The revenue sports will always be the driver of these type of decisions, and let's face it, LSH is dominant in football and hoops in the league. We've done pretty well in many of the girls sports too. I don't think the folks in Toledo are too happy with us "hicks" coming up there and dominating the league. Travel is also a concern. Lima folks, check our history, will go anywhere. I'm not so sure the Toledo folks are good with traveling here..
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Good points on all counts although I would be amazed if Toledo regards Lima as "hicks." As far as backing the teams Lima does very well when they're winning and they are a loyal league member.
 
Week 5 Scores
Bowsher 14-51 Lima Senior
Rogers 58-14 Woodward
Scott 26-20 Waite
Start 12-48 Anthony Wayne

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-4
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Rogers 118-95
Start 98-144
Bowsher 75-195
Scott 54-193
Waite 50-209
Woodward 34-207


Week 6 Matchups
Bowsher @ Waite
Rogers @ Start
Scott @ Syl. Southview
Lima Senior @ Woodward

Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 69%
Rogers 32%
Scott 5%
Bowsher 1%
Woodward 0%
Waite 0%
 
Week 6 Scores
Bowsher 20-18 Waite
Start 34-14 Rogers
Scott 14-47 Syl. Southview
Woodward 0-56 Lima Senior

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-5
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Rogers 132-129
Start 132-158
Bowsher 95-213
Waite 68-229
Scott 68-240
Woodward 34-263


Week 7 Matchups
Bowsher v. Napoleon
Rogers @ Lima Senior
Scott v. Woodward
Start @ Waite

Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 66%
Rogers 17%
Scott 3%
Bowsher 1%
Woodward 0%
Waite 0%
 
Week 7 Scores
Bowsher 6-49 Napoleon
Rogers 6-37 Lima Senior
Scott 36-12 Woodward
Start 52-6 Waite

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-6
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Start 184-164
Rogers 138-166
Scott 104-252
Bowsher 101-262
Waite 74-281
Woodward 46-299


Week 7 Matchups
Bowsher @ Start
Rogers v Scott
Waite @ Lima Seinor
Woodward v Bowling Green

Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 93%
Rogers 20%
Scott 3%
Bowsher 1%
Woodward 0%
Waite 0%
 
horseface said:
The elite talent is going to Central and Whitmer and what's left is what's left. The realities of the quality of football being played make that worse every year. Interesting to think about what it would take to really turn things around. Are there any winnable games in the non-league schedule anywhere? I would think most of them would be better off traveling to Columbus or Cleveland to play city schools there than to keep playing NLL and NBC teams.
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I agree. Toledo City League, Akron City Series, and Cleveland Senate League all have similar quality programs (except Glenville). It would increase travel costs a bit but games would be more.competitive.
 
CCHS93 said:
I agree. Toledo City League, Akron City Series, and Cleveland Senate League all have similar quality programs (except Glenville). It would increase travel costs a bit but games would be more.competitive.
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Cincinnati and Dayton Public schools use to be in one league if I’m not wrong. I could see this happening, and it would make sense. Also the Cleveland Senate Schools are always looking for games.
 
CCHS93 said:
I agree. Toledo City League, Akron City Series, and Cleveland Senate League all have similar quality programs (except Glenville). It would increase travel costs a bit but games would be more.competitive.
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Travel costs are not going up when you already have Lima on the schedule. I don't know if they are signigicantly more when using the same busses for the same about of time but they're probably already up.

TCL has scheduled Carey, Dover, several town east of Fremont including John Adams. They can get and have gotten competitive games by OOC more local smaller division schools and could get those competitive urban games closeer by heading north or west. I don't think that's what scheduling is about? It's about $$$ Who will pay them to come play so they can grab harbin's points from an easy higher division win. Or maybe it's just friends helping friends?

Works for me. I get an occasional out of town to someplace I've not been. NLL schedule boring. Catholic league not much better. Had hopes for games againts Warren until I found they're at Wayne St and you have to pay for parking. 🤷
 
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CCHS93 said:
I agree. Toledo City League, Akron City Series, and Cleveland Senate League all have similar quality programs (except Glenville). It would increase travel costs a bit but games would be more.competitive.
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It used to be very common for TCL schools to travel and play other city teams. Cleveland and Dayton especially.
 
irish_buffalo said:
When was this?
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Of the city schools, other than Scott, I don't recall teams generally traveling past the old GLL areas for anything regular and rarely for one-offs. Libbey for awhile went to N Ridgeville. I attended one of those just to see what a N Ridgeville was. All I recall is a large water tower. River Rouge, Ecorse started to hit some schedules in the 2000s. Back in the day, Macomber would play Elyria. Or maybe it was Euclid. I've no idea why. Lorain sounds familiar but that might be basketball. Cleveland schools? I don't recall those.
 
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School busses are one thing I think we can all agree, skipped anything resembling modernization. Heck, regularl and travel busses haven't really changed. Swap the stench of cigarettes for fentanyl infused weed and pretty much same-ol, same-ol.
 
KingHorn419 said:
1960s and prior. Long before modern busses and even before the interstate system came about in the 50s.
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A lot of city schools seemed to play far flung opponents and travel, I assume, by train in those days.

I’m more in the SW part of the state, but I’ve seen some very interesting schedules from the 1950s that are hard to fathom in the modern era.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
A lot of city schools seemed to play far flung opponents and travel, I assume, by train in those days.

I’m more in the SW part of the state, but I’ve seen some very interesting schedules from the 1950s that are hard to fathom in the modern era.
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Back in the 20's and 30's Waite and Scott would travel far and wide to play the best (coast to coast - Fostoria too). Libbey followed suit in the 30's and 40's. Beyond that it started to wane a bit and as the 50's and 60's rolled around most TPS schools would schedule MAYBE one statewide school such as a Middleton or Massillon and then a regional school such as a Fremont Ross/Sandusky/Mansfield/Lorain/Eylria/Marion Harding, etc. Usually they ran right into the TCL schedule rather quickly, especially with Rogers, Start, Bowsher coming into the fold in the 60's. In the 70's the schools began relying largely on NBC/GLL/NLL schools for out of conference foes and a regional here and there. The 70's brought on a very stagnant TCL which saw the schools fall behind the rest of the state when it came quality of football and to be honest the TPS schools never caught back up. During this time they introduced day time games to combat incidents at night games and recycled coaches throughout the league (assistants from TPS were hired as HCs at other TPS schools, fired HCs would become assistants at another TPS - no new blood).
 
irish_buffalo said:
Back in the 20's and 30's Waite and Scott would travel far and wide to play the best (coast to coast - Fostoria too). Libbey followed suit in the 30's and 40's. Beyond that it started to wane a bit and as the 50's and 60's rolled around most TPS schools would schedule MAYBE one statewide school such as a Middleton or Massillon and then a regional school such as a Fremont Ross/Sandusky/Mansfield/Lorain/Eylria/Marion Harding, etc. Usually they ran right into the TCL schedule rather quickly, especially with Rogers, Start, Bowsher coming into the fold in the 60's. In the 70's the schools began relying largely on NBC/GLL/NLL schools for out of conference foes and a regional here and there. The 70's brought on a very stagnant TCL which saw the schools fall behind the rest of the state when it came quality of football and to be honest the TPS schools never caught back up. During this time they introduced day time games to combat incidents at night games and recycled coaches throughout the league (assistants from TPS were hired as HCs at other TPS schools, fired HCs would become assistants at another TPS - no new blood).
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You are correct. Between the world wars the best TPS programs, especially Waite in the Mollenkopf era, traveled all over the place and fairly regularly to several states away. Very different era.
 
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Talk about the dead era of the TCL football.
 
footballsalads43 said:
I would think so tbh. Only other place they could go is MVL and try to make it 2 divisions with a northern division of Lima, Troy, Tipp, Sidney, Piqua and Greenville, I think this would be a solid conference. But Lima to the more southern schools in the MVL is quite a haul and would make crossover games unfavorable travel wise. Also the MVL is already at 10 teams so I don’t think they are too interested in expanding anyway. Also Lima is competitive in the Toledo league and they are winning. Hard to see them not being interested tbh, especially if they can’t find a new home I do think the Toledo schools might cut it off though due to a multitude of possible reasons. 1. Travel, Toledo to Lima is quite a haul on weekday games for volleyball and basketball and other sports. 2. Lima will probably dominate in a lot of sports and 3. With Lima they are at an uneven 7 teams, this is really only a big deal in football and doesn’t matter too much in other sports, but in football this can leave open weeks in week 4-10 and those aren’t the easiest weeks to fill a schedule. However, I really do hope Lima stays! I really like the move overall, and they deserve to have a secure league, and overall they strengthen the Toledo city league, I think the city schools are happy to have Lima, but we will see how it plays out over the next few years!
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Travel time will be no different than the trips to Toledo. All schools you listed are 1 hour transits. Would love for them to be invited to the MVL.
 
dcal419 said:
Travel time will be no different than the trips to Toledo. All schools you listed are 1 hour transits. Would love for them to be invited to the MVL.
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The more northern schools would actually be slightly less travel for them! Except Greenville which is 1 hour 15 mins, but that’s not even too bad. Except Greenville all of these schools are right off of 75 too. Travel wouldn’t be bad, but the MVL thread doesn’t like the idea of Lima, but I think it would be a good addition. Just add another school and get a south division (Bellbrook can fill that out).
 
Week 8 Scores
Start 42-14 Bowsher
Rogers 46-8 Scott
Waite 0-79 Lima Senior
Woodward 8-35 Bowling Green

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-7
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Start 226-178
Rogers 184-174
Scott 112-298
Bowsher 115-304
Waite 74-359
Woodward 54-334


Week 9 Matchups
Bowsher @ Rogers
Scott v. Lima Senior
Start @ Woodward
Waite @ Fremont Ross

Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 95%
Rogers 1%
Scott 1%
Bowsher 0%
Woodward 0%
Waite 0%
 
KingHorn419 said:
Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 95%
Rogers 1%
Scott 1%
Bowsher 0%
Woodward 0%
Waite 0%
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Referencing a post I made on the NLL thread when it was questioned, why schedule Start? This is why schedule Start. Outside the league, a fairly easy win that will rack up playoff points for you once they get in league. And they generally are not without some athletes that can test you.

It's an easy test. Change the Start game to one of the W's on the spreadsheet and see if your team loses a spot or two. Thought being complete, the bottom five isn't looking to tough to deal with.
 
eastisbest said:
Referencing a post I made on the NLL thread when it was questioned, why schedule Start? This is why schedule Start. Outside the league, a fairly easy win that will rack up playoff points for you once they get in league. And they generally are not without some athletes that can test you.

It's an easy test. Change the Start game to one of the W's on the spreadsheet and see if your team loses a spot or two. Thought being complete, the bottom five isn't looking to tough to deal with.
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Correct, it is easy and gives you points and in reference to AW. Start is 5-3 and the combined record of those 5 teams is 9-29 and 8 of those 9 wins are against other TCL opponents with the other being winless Northview.

Avon Lake, Massillon, Cincinnati Anderson, Walsh Jesuit, Hoban, LaSalle, are teams any D2 striving for a state title must measure themselves against and they are not going out of their way to schedule Start.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Correct, it is easy and gives you points and in reference to AW. Start is 5-3 and the combined record of those 5 teams is 9-29 and 8 of those 9 wins are against other TCL opponents with the other being winless Northview.

Avon Lake, Massillon, Cincinnati Anderson, Walsh Jesuit, Hoban, LaSalle, are teams any D2 striving for a state title must measure themselves against and they are not going out of their way to schedule Start.
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Of course I agree, teams would be wise to play better and diverse competition in order to prepare for deep runs. We just don't happen to have a lot of that around here.

AW had scheduled Darby and SJJ. With those risks in hand, it makes sense to try and make up Harbins in case those games go sour. Who was it you wanted AW to schedule instead of Start? Who better and econmically close to get both the D1s AND the D2s? And maybe it was AW doing Start a solid by giving them a game in which to develop?



Those you mention: They don't need Start or similar but they do schedule weaker teams either by conference or relationship. In general though:
Massillon's not needing more Harbins or competition. Hasn't for a long time. Not everyone is in a position to affrord what they can afford to schedule.
The private schools generally have an obligation to schedule other private schools. Their schedules can be hard to fill. St I didn't pick that schedule to prepare for playoffs. I don't know the conferences around Cinci and AL .
Anderson's schedule shows an early blowout to a DI with a good W-L. They may have their own versions of Start.
AL did add Benedictine last year to what seems their normal. They got clobbered by AW in play-offs. TBD whether that leads to a deep run this year..
 
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