Toledo Public School Football 2024

933York said:
Would the OHSAA and Toledo Public Schools ever consider allowing schools to merge for football only? Maybe 3 teams of combined 2 high schools?
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They should allow it. The vast majority of city schools cannot compete with even the lowest level suburban, private, or small-town schools.
 
TPS, like most urban school districts has their specific struggles, such as broken homes, poverty, and competing against resources that their suburban, rural, and private counterparts enjoy, which includes staff that live in district and large community support. So, adding vouchers, and expanding the voucher program, which simply pulls the best and brightest, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

As long as the local privates, especially Central, can poach top talent using taxpayer funded athletic scholarships, carte blanche and with zero oversight, TPS sports will only continue to slide. One can only look across our Northern border into Michigan to see what is possible, athletically, in urban districts, without vouchers as their private schools are somewhat struggling from where they were 20 years ago, since they are not propped up artificially and subsidized through vouchers, and their public schools are for the most part doing ok and in some instances, competing very well.
 
irish_buffalo said:
TPS, like most urban school districts has their specific struggles, such as broken homes, poverty, and competing against resources that their suburban, rural, and private counterparts enjoy, which includes staff that live in district and large community support. So, adding vouchers, and expanding the voucher program, which simply pulls the best and brightest, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

As long as the local privates, especially Central, can poach top talent using taxpayer funded athletic scholarships, carte blanche and with zero oversight, TPS sports will only continue to slide. One can only look across our Northern border into Michigan to see what is possible, athletically, in urban districts, without vouchers as their private schools are somewhat struggling from where they were 20 years ago, since they are not propped up artificially and subsidized through vouchers, and their public schools are for the most part doing ok and in some instances, competing very well.
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Make no mistake, Whitmer and St Francis are absolutely following suit as well. Central is just the most prominent program due to their long term legendary coach and "centrally" located school. My wife has been a TPS for quite awhile now, I am appalled at the stories I regularly hear her tell me. I am 100% team voucher to help those kids get out of that environment, it's not a good educational setting at all.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
Make no mistake, Whitmer and St Francis are absolutely following suit as well. Central is just the most prominent program due to their long term legendary coach and "centrally" located school. My wife has been a TPS for quite awhile now, I am appalled at the stories I regularly hear her tell me. I am 100% team voucher to help those kids get out of that environment, it's not a good educational setting at all.
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You missed the point, per uje.
 
irish_buffalo said:
TPS, like most urban school districts has their specific struggles, such as broken homes, poverty, and competing against resources that their suburban, rural, and private counterparts enjoy, which includes staff that live in district and large community support. So, adding vouchers, and expanding the voucher program, which simply pulls the best and brightest, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

As long as the local privates, especially Central, can poach top talent using taxpayer funded athletic scholarships, carte blanche and with zero oversight, TPS sports will only continue to slide. One can only look across our Northern border into Michigan to see what is possible, athletically, in urban districts, without vouchers as their private schools are somewhat struggling from where they were 20 years ago, since they are not propped up artificially and subsidized through vouchers, and their public schools are for the most part doing ok and in some instances, competing very well.
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Same holds true for Akron city, see Archbishop Hoban, St. Lebron, Walsh Jesuit and to lesser extent CVCA and Lake Center Christian. And public schools have enough trouble passing school levies despite not only with free ride vouchers but the UNCONSTITUTIONAL way schools are funded in Ohio on the backs of the property owners!
 
irish_buffalo said:
TPS, like most urban school districts has their specific struggles, such as broken homes, poverty, and competing against resources that their suburban, rural, and private counterparts enjoy, which includes staff that live in district and large community support. So, adding vouchers, and expanding the voucher program, which simply pulls the best and brightest, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

As long as the local privates, especially Central, can poach top talent using taxpayer funded athletic scholarships, carte blanche and with zero oversight, TPS sports will only continue to slide. One can only look across our Northern border into Michigan to see what is possible, athletically, in urban districts, without vouchers as their private schools are somewhat struggling from where they were 20 years ago, since they are not propped up artificially and subsidized through vouchers, and their public schools are for the most part doing ok and in some instances, competing very well.
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Just spit balling a thought here but why hasn't / why didn't a Glenville type situation ever develop in Toledo Public? Say one where Start or Scott or Rogers, etc.... "poach" all of or at least some of the city wide talent, possibly even away from central? I realize that scenario would leave some of the other schools if not most of the rest without any players of any merit at all (much like what we see in the Senate League). Are the attendance zones fairly strict still? If not, seems like someone at Scott or Rogers (both being D3 and Scott being the smaller of the two) could / should try to rope in as many returning all city performers as they can in the off season and try to create a better product as a result. Go to the best of the rest (the ones Dempsey doesn't get) and say hey you should come to Rogers, we could really do some damage next season with ya on our team. Or maybe that's not an option. I really don't know.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Just spit balling a thought here but why hasn't / why didn't a Glenville type situation ever develop in Toledo Public? Say one where Start or Scott or Rogers, etc.... "poach" all of or at least some of the city wide talent, possibly even away from central? I realize that scenario would leave some of the other schools if not most of the rest without any players of any merit at all (much like what we see in the Senate League). Are the attendance zones fairly strict still? If not, seems like someone at Scott or Rogers (both being D3 and Scott being the smaller of the two) could / should try to rope in as many returning all city performers as they can in the off season and try to create a better product as a result. Go to the best of the rest (the ones Dempsey doesn't get) and say hey you should come to Rogers, we could really do some damage next season with ya on our team. Or maybe that's not an option. I really don't know.
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I think of Start baseball.

I do not have a great answer as to why. Always amazed me that one of the Catholic schools could never establish itself as the area wrestling school similar to Eds in Cleveland.

I would say resources. Outside of Start baseball, by the time a TPS would get rolling something would stop the momentum (coach leaves, cancel junior high sports, etc.).

With Toledo being such a blue collar town they really missed the boat when they closed Macomber. All of the industrial tech programs should have stayed consolidated there and they should have expanded to cater to the trades and auto industry and we could have seen a Cass Tech type school. As I mentioned before, lack of vision in planning when they rebuilt the high schools based on 20's through 60's demographics (built in relatively same spots) hurt as well. They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics with Macomber technical school downtown.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I think of Start baseball.

I do not have a great answer as to why. Always amazed me that one of the Catholic schools could never establish itself as the area wrestling school similar to Eds in Cleveland.

I would say resources. Outside of Start baseball, by the time a TPS would get rolling something would stop the momentum (coach leaves, cancel junior high sports, etc.).

With Toledo being such a blue collar town they really missed the boat when they closed Macomber. All of the industrial tech programs should have stayed consolidated there and they should have expanded to cater to the trades and auto industry and we could have seen a Cass Tech type school. As I mentioned before, lack of vision in planning when they rebuilt the high schools based on 20's through 60's demographics (built in relatively same spots) hurt as well. They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics with Macomber technical school downtown.
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I thought of Start baseball as well and just wondered why something similar never amassed for football. Agreed too as to the parochial school wrestling.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I think of Start baseball.

I do not have a great answer as to why. Always amazed me that one of the Catholic schools could never establish itself as the area wrestling school similar to Eds in Cleveland.

I would say resources. Outside of Start baseball, by the time a TPS would get rolling something would stop the momentum (coach leaves, cancel junior high sports, etc.).

With Toledo being such a blue collar town they really missed the boat when they closed Macomber. All of the industrial tech programs should have stayed consolidated there and they should have expanded to cater to the trades and auto industry and we could have seen a Cass Tech type school. As I mentioned before, lack of vision in planning when they rebuilt the high schools based on 20's through 60's demographics (built in relatively same spots) hurt as well. They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics with Macomber technical school downtown.
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"They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics"

Exactly. IMO TPS could easily close two high schools and consolidate down to four. Financially it seems that would make more sense than keeping six half-full buildings open.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Just spit balling a thought here but why hasn't / why didn't a Glenville type situation ever develop in Toledo Public? Say one where Start or Scott or Rogers, etc.... "poach" all of or at least some of the city wide talent, possibly even away from central? I realize that scenario would leave some of the other schools if not most of the rest without any players of any merit at all (much like what we see in the Senate League). Are the attendance zones fairly strict still? If not, seems like someone at Scott or Rogers (both being D3 and Scott being the smaller of the two) could / should try to rope in as many returning all city performers as they can in the off season and try to create a better product as a result. Go to the best of the rest (the ones Dempsey doesn't get) and say hey you should come to Rogers, we could really do some damage next season with ya on our team. Or maybe that's not an option. I really don't know.
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What area coaches could have pulled it off? Maybe Rios at a Toledo Tech. Or even a Pearson or Depmsey while still at St. Art. Remember how that all got rolling at Glencville. Not just with a vision but also with a child and a special class of local athletes. Even that, Glenville wasn't starting from scratch.

Ours would have most likely had to happen before the split of the TCL. But we were a mixed league. EVERYONE would have objected, public and private. Hard ball to start rolling. Would take quite the magnetic personality with no life to start a public Glenvile Academy type school in such a limited population.

"Closing schools." Driving a whole population across a city is not the same as driving through the farm fields. Rural is still basically the same culture. Closing any of the remaining neighborhood schools would be open season for new magnets, most likely private run so they can skirt standards and continue the grift. The only ones suggesting to close any more of the neighborhood schools are those that see potential personal gain for themselves of their agendas and idiots. Respectfully.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Just spit balling a thought here but why hasn't / why didn't a Glenville type situation ever develop in Toledo Public? Say one where Start or Scott or Rogers, etc.... "poach" all of or at least some of the city wide talent, possibly even away from central? I realize that scenario would leave some of the other schools if not most of the rest without any players of any merit at all (much like what we see in the Senate League). Are the attendance zones fairly strict still? If not, seems like someone at Scott or Rogers (both being D3 and Scott being the smaller of the two) could / should try to rope in as many returning all city performers as they can in the off season and try to create a better product as a result. Go to the best of the rest (the ones Dempsey doesn't get) and say hey you should come to Rogers, we could really do some damage next season with ya on our team. Or maybe that's not an option. I really don't know.
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Because Toledo is a smaller city. Whitmer and the Catholic schools can easily take all of the top football talent. Cleveland is considerably bigger, St Ed’s and St Iggy can’t take all the best players
 
smurfyeah19 said:
Because Toledo is a smaller city. Whitmer and the Catholic schools can easily take all of the top football talent. Cleveland is considerably bigger, St Ed’s and St Iggy can’t take all the best players
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Geesh, you again.

Today I'm unsure Toledo has the kids. Going back to 2009 Toledo most certainly had enough. The 2009 Rogers squad had Powell, Tucker, Farris (very legit guys who would be All-State caliber for anyone today). So why from 2001-2009 didn't all of the kids who didn't go to Whitmer/CC/SF/SJ just gravitate to Rogers/Rios? Or Start/Gooch (Bell, Lee, White, Liddell-Smith, Cameron)? It is valid question. Ginn recruited. Unsure Toledo saw that outside of Arbinger. Maybe Williams. Maybe.

I think it has to do with families desire to travel and send their kids elsewhere. For many families it is the furthest from their mind. CC's ability to offer money and the Irish's and Whitmer's ability to play in state of the art facilities superseded anything any school in TPS could come close to offer.

In 2012 Waite had some dudes but they were very limited in their mobility and family support system, which goes back to EIB's relative access within distance point.
 
IMO cutting junior high and freshman sports around 2010 was the death knell for TPS athletics. The talent drain to Whitmer and the private schools was substantial, and became permanent as the voucher program solidified and expanded.

Obviously as noted there are many issues with just shuttering schools based on student population, but for the purposes of this discussion between the talent drain and general declining population there are too many football programs to have anything resembling competitive football. It would probably bring with it many logistical and other issues, but from a participation standpoint the six TPS schools should probably have co-op football with four teams. Maybe as few as three.
 
irish_buffalo said:
I think of Start baseball.

I do not have a great answer as to why. Always amazed me that one of the Catholic schools could never establish itself as the area wrestling school similar to Eds in Cleveland.

I would say resources. Outside of Start baseball, by the time a TPS would get rolling something would stop the momentum (coach leaves, cancel junior high sports, etc.).

With Toledo being such a blue collar town they really missed the boat when they closed Macomber. All of the industrial tech programs should have stayed consolidated there and they should have expanded to cater to the trades and auto industry and we could have seen a Cass Tech type school. As I mentioned before, lack of vision in planning when they rebuilt the high schools based on 20's through 60's demographics (built in relatively same spots) hurt as well. They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics with Macomber technical school downtown.
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Akron City should have done the same. To have 6 high schools with decreased enrollment is absurd. Should have consolidated to 4, North( North and old Central enrollment zones) West ( Firestone and Buchtel) South( Garfield and Kenmore, basically already done) and East ( East and Ellet)..no forward thinking.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Geesh, you again.

Today I'm unsure Toledo has the kids. Going back to 2009 Toledo most certainly had enough. The 2009 Rogers squad had Powell, Tucker, Farris (very legit guys who would be All-State caliber for anyone today). So why from 2001-2009 didn't all of the kids who didn't go to Whitmer/CC/SF/SJ just gravitate to Rogers/Rios? Or Start/Gooch (Bell, Lee, White, Liddell-Smith, Cameron)? It is valid question. Ginn recruited. Unsure Toledo saw that outside of Arbinger. Maybe Williams. Maybe.

I think it has to do with families desire to travel and send their kids elsewhere. For many families it is the furthest from their mind. CC's ability to offer money and the Irish's and Whitmer's ability to play in state of the art facilities superseded anything any school in TPS could come close to offer.

In 2012 Waite had some dudes but they were very limited in their mobility and family support system, which goes back to EIB's relative access within distance point.
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So like I said, Toledo is a bit too small
 
I also think some of you have different ideas of the way people felt about what Start was doing and what they got away with when they were dominating in baseball in the late 90’s…there’s a reason they didn’t continue to have a baseball factory and after about 2008 became nothing more than an ok baseball school.
 
NLLBEST said:
I also think some of you have different ideas of the way people felt about what Start was doing and what they got away with when they were dominating in baseball in the late 90’s…there’s a reason they didn’t continue to have a baseball factory and after about 2008 became nothing more than an ok baseball school.
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And of course some of that has to do with baseball in general becoming a country club sport. All of the baseball diamond complexes in Toledo (Bowman, Scott Park, Detweiler, Wlodarz & Sabo) have sat empty since Start’s fall from elite.
 
wildcat71 said:
Akron City should have done the same. To have 6 high schools with decreased enrollment is absurd. Should have consolidated to 4, North( North and old Central enrollment zones) West ( Firestone and Buchtel) South( Garfield and Kenmore, basically already done) and East ( East and Ellet)..no forward thinking.
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That was actually mentioned in a Beacon Journal article 30 years ago. Also mentioned, how overrated performers could ink $110M contracts per year while school systems continue to operate in the red.
 
Toledo, Akron, Cleveland, et al should consolidate the athletic programs at their high schools. There just aren't enough kids for every school to have a sports team
 
Week 3 Scores
Bowsher 18-56 Maumee
Rogers 6-7 Norwalk
Scott 0-32 Columbus East
Start 28-7 Springfield
Waite 0-41 Clyde
Woodward 6-44 Fostoria

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-3
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Start 50-82
Bowsher 32-138
Scott 24-137
Rogers 14-63
Woodward 14-120
Waite 12-137


Week 3 opponents and percent chance of win (according to Fantastic 50)
Bowsher (-32) vs. Woodward (97%)
Rogers (-7) vs. Waite (66%)
Start (-11) vs. Scott (74%)
 
irish_buffalo said:
I think of Start baseball.

I do not have a great answer as to why. Always amazed me that one of the Catholic schools could never establish itself as the area wrestling school similar to Eds in Cleveland.

I would say resources. Outside of Start baseball, by the time a TPS would get rolling something would stop the momentum (coach leaves, cancel junior high sports, etc.).

With Toledo being such a blue collar town they really missed the boat when they closed Macomber. All of the industrial tech programs should have stayed consolidated there and they should have expanded to cater to the trades and auto industry and we could have seen a Cass Tech type school. As I mentioned before, lack of vision in planning when they rebuilt the high schools based on 20's through 60's demographics (built in relatively same spots) hurt as well. They should have consolidated down to 4 regular high schools based on modern Toledo demographics with Macomber technical school downtown.
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As far as wrestling goes...
For years Eds benefitted from the Cleveland CYO wrestling apparatus that was in place (it's now been essentially gutted). We never had that in the Toledo area. We would take kids from St. Wendelin to the JH Catholic Invitational when it was held at St. Eds and it was generally a recruiting day for them with the best JH Catholic school talent in the state coming to them.
St. Francis, St. John's haven't been relevant in years on the mat and Central had some success statewide but it couldn't be sustained.
Stritch was the real NW Ohio parochial power but that was back in the 70s and 80s and they no longer even have a program.
Of course, now, you have Burnett coaching in Perrysburg and they have most of the Toledo area at talent.
 
Week 4 Scores
Bowsher 29-6 Woodward
Start 36-14 Scott
Rogers 46-18 Waite

This season vs. other conference
vs. CCL 0-1
vs. CHSL 0-1
vs. NBC 0-4
vs. NLL 1-3
vs. NWC 0-1
vs. SBC 0-5
vs. SL 0-1
vs. WBL 0-1

Point differential so far this year (for-against)
Start 86-96
Bowsher 61-144
Rogers 60-81
Scott 38-173
Waite 30-183
Woodward 20-149


Week 4 Matchups
Bowsher vs Lima Senior
Rogers vs. Woodward
Scott vs. Waite
Start vs. Anthony Wayne

Playoff Probabilties (per Fantastic 50)
Start 71%
Rogers 51%
Scott 14%
Bowsher 3%
Woodward 1%
Waite 0%
 
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