TO ALL PLAYERS AND PARENTS THAT HAVE GONE TO AND ARE GOING TO CLUB TRYOUTS

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
No matter what age group, high school, pre high school or 12u and younger, get on team that you are going to play. The viable baseball season is too short to spend a majority of your time on the bench. Be honest with yourself, know where you are on the developmental ladder and join a team that you know you are going to get significant playing time. No one gets better sitting. Very, very few teams practice enough in season to make up for a limited amount of in season playing time. Too many high school age club coaches are trying to sell internal competition. It is nonsense when you are paying club fees. Believe me when I say you will get a ton of internal team competition on your high school team. You don't need it on your club teams. As a corollary, club coaches do not offer a player unless you see them getting significant playing time. It is not fair to either party. Good luck to everyone.
 
Would you rather be the best player in a rec league or a role player on a team competing at a higher level? Which one is ultimately going to challenge you more and make you learn the game more?

While I don't entirely disagree with where you're coming from, I think a player's baseball goals need to be at the forefront of the mind when making club team decisions. Competition is always a good thing, be it internal or external. If my goal is to play in college, I want to get on a team that is going to develop me into a player that a college coach is looking for. Guess what kind of player that is? A TEAM player.

I think playing time is important to a certain extent. If you're dominating at a lower level against poor competition, why not challenge yourself at a higher level, even if it means earning your spot or playing a role?
 

thePITman

Well-known member
Would you rather be the best player in a rec league or a role player on a team competing at a higher level? Which one is ultimately going to challenge you more and make you learn the game more?
Being a role player on a more competitive team is different than being kid #12-15 on the roster. We had a kid this year go play travel for the first time, was picked up week 2 of the summer season and told he would pitch, catch, and play 3B a lot. He played once ever 3 games. It's sad how many travel programs will lie to kids about playing time just to fill their roster.
 
Being a role player on a more competitive team is different than being kid #12-15 on the roster. We had a kid this year go play travel for the first time, was picked up week 2 of the summer season and told he would pitch, catch, and play 3B a lot. He played once ever 3 games. It's sad how many travel programs will lie to kids about playing time just to fill their roster.
Without knowing the age group/team in your example, we can still use this as a comparison. Would you rather be a role player on a more competitive team or a #12-15 guy on a very high end organization competing at high-exposure tournaments? I don't know if that was the case in your scenario, but if, in the once every three games, you're seeing truly elite talent, then I think it's still worth it if it aligns with your baseball goals.

If your baseball goals end with high school, then playing time absolutely takes priority. My point in responding to the original post was that it's wrong to generalize ALL PLAYERS AND PARENTS attending club ball tryouts, because not everyone has the same baseball goals.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
A role player on a travel team growing up? Nah.

You want/need to play. Sitting the bench and not playing much in a "great" program wont help you as much as playing every day on an average one.

We had to make that decision this summer, sort of. The money organization he was a part of for two summers basically fired the coaching staff and WHOLE TEAM, brought in another established team to replace them and offered the top couple of players a tryout to fill out the 1-2 spots that were going to be open.

Told them to kick rocks for A. The lack of integrity of the organization on how they orchestrated the whole fiasco and B. "filling in" on an established roster with limited PT is an absolute waste.


The original OP is right. Dont get caught up in the "prestige" of the the big time money teams. Find an organization where you are going to play every day.
The coaching I have seen even in the "good" programs seemed lacking for the most part, and the programs were good more so because they brought in good talent, not beacuse they were being coached up to be good.

Find a team where you will play, and play positions you are expected to be playing in HS. PLahying more than one position is a good thing, but gettting reps in your ultimate position is more important than floating all over the place because lets face it, if you can be a very good at almost any said position, the coach knows he can put you some place else and do well.
 
A role player on a travel team growing up? Nah.
This is where we need to draw a definitive line. I'm obviously not talking about a 9 year old being a role player on an "elite" team. Once you reach age 14-16, if your baseball goals last beyond high school, you need to find a team that'll develop you to the maximum and prepare you for the next level. Unfortunately, with the rules in place here in Ohio, there's only so much a high school coach can do for a baseball player.
 
They don't call it pay to play ball for nothing. If you want to play, get better, and that involves practice thru repetitions of doing things right. A lot of players get better at doing things wrong. A lot kids play many games but never learn how to play the game. Games are nice and important, but the real learning and skill development takes place in practice and observing playing the game right.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
They don't call it pay to play ball for nothing. If you want to play, get better, and that involves practice thru repetitions of doing things right. A lot of players get better at doing things wrong. A lot kids play many games but never learn how to play the game. Games are nice and important, but the real learning and skill development takes place in practice and observing playing the game right.
Absolutely. 100%. HS TEAM baseball one wold think should be better now than in the past, and I just dont see it.
Kids are playing more and more games, but getting much less practice and THAT is where a player and team gets better.

Luckily my coaches, and believe you me we didnt like it (but understand and cherished it now) but in HS we would have an impromptu practice before or after a lot of games because we played so often and they realized those small detailed fundamentals/situations may come up only once in a season but can be the difference in moving on or going home.

I love watching good baseball. Players in the right places, at the right time. Calling pickoffs on their own, looks like they have a clue and actually work PFP, etc.
What I have seen from the 'great' $$ teams and the normal $ teams hasnt been team fundamentals, it is they just attract and get the better players, not necessarily have better coaching and development.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
....but i am old and dont know anything and think we created a monster in youth sports that $$$ is the determining factor and it has not been beneficial to the game as a whole.
 
Play for the best team you can PLAY for.
Also on the money side as it has been brought up, I always have looked at the $$ is about the training time and space available.
Think how much you would pay to get a cage 2-3 days a week or a mound tunnel to work on stuff if you rented on your own.
Some of the best organizations make the time given in training worth the price of admission, some do not.
Besides the few invite only top level tournaments, any team that pays there fees will get into any tournament you want.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
I agree with BBF20. Try to join the best team that you are going to play for. My kid has played for 2 "elite" programs in the last three years. He just finished his 18U year. One year he played for a very solid organization but I would not consider them consistently elite (although their 17U team that is coming up next year has at least three D1 players on it, but I digress.) None of those programs really did anything for individual development unless you took a lesson. Very few individual development drills, not much hitting help and very little pitching instruction. It all had to be done on the player's own. In my kid's case, we found a private pitching coach and have gone from there. Meaning, neither of the high school pitching coaches, nor the "elite's" teams pitching coaches made an impact on my kid's technical development. In fact, at the end of the year, I asked this year's coach for some feedback to prepare for his college fall. The head coach critiqued my kids slowness (he has a high leg kick) to the plate when men are on base. It was/is a valid critique. But after he told me that, I thought to myself, "you had him all fall, winter and summer, why didn't you fix it?" Don't get me wrong, this past summer's team did a good job of conditioning, running fundamental drills and reinforcing proper baseball situational protocol. But our hitting was average at best and our pitching was above average and both tailed off as the season wore on. My point is that the individual skills really did not improve as we got deeper into the season. And this is pretty common in club baseball. Most strong clubs will have "professional (not dads)" coaches and they will run good practices. But if you want to individually develop as a player, I am afraid you are on your own no matter how "elite" a team you join. Again, good luck this weekend everybody.
 
Last edited:

thavoice

Well-known member
I agree with BBF20. Try to join the best team that you are going to play for. My kid has played for 2 "elite" programs in the last three years. He just finished his 18U year. One year he played for a very solid organization but I would not consider them consistently elite (although their 17U team that is coming up next year has at least three D1 players on it, but I digress.) None of those programs really did anything for individual development unless you took a lesson. Very few individual development drills, not much hitting help and very little pitching instruction. It all had to be done on the player's own. In my kid's case, we found a private pitching coach and have gone from there. Meaning, neither of the high school pitching coaches, nor the "elite's" teams pitching coaches made an impact on my kid's technical development. In fact, at the end of the year, I asked this year's coach for some feedback to prepare for his college fall. The head coach critiqued my kids slowness (he has a high leg kick) to the plate when men are on base. It was/is a valid critique. But after he told me that, I thought to myself, "you had him all fall, winter and summer, why didn't you fix it?" Don't get me wrong, this past summer's team did a good job of conditioning, running fundamental drills and reinforcing proper baseball situational protocol. But our hitting was average at best and our pitching was above average and both tailed off as the season wore on. My point is that the individual skills really did not improve as we got deeper into the season. And this is pretty common in club baseball. Most strong clubs will have "professional (not dads)" coaches and they will run good practices. But if you want to individually develop as a player, I am afraid you are on your own no matter "elite" a team you join. Again, good luck this weekend everybody.
Money teams throw out the bats, balls and gloves and let them play and pound their chest as if they are the reason why a kid is good
 

cappy21

Member
Here are some of the problems with summer baseball right now-
1. There are WAY too many teams that were not created with the intentions of helping kids. The term SELECT baseball used to mean something but now it doesn't because Little Johnny's dad was upset with playing time on an elite team so him and the other know-it-all dads decided to leave and form their own team the following year. That cycle continued year after year and you have what is now the most watered down group of teams you can imagine. Now that group of dads have decided that instead of challenging their kids to play against elite competition, they'd rather go trophy hunting during the summer and play against another group of rag-tag teams every weekend. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR TROPHIES IN YOUR BASEMENT!
2. Showcases and college camps in the winter are killing the opportunities for kids to actually develop with their summer teams during the offseason. Monday-Friday are generally out of the question because with summer ball, kids aren't always centrally located so driving long distances after school can't always be expected. Showcases and College Camps have taken priority over player development/learning the game by most PARENTS because they're all searching for the Holy Grail of the college scholarship. Most HS teams are lifting and holding off-season open hitting/throwing workouts as well, so it makes it difficult for summer teams to hold practices. When parents pay for summer ball, its not going to be for offseason training unless that team has unimpeded access to a facility during the offseason.
3. Showcase companies hosting events every Tuesday/Wednesday during the summer is hurting kids' overall development in baseball. Its not on PBR, its not on kids, its on PARENTS for signing their kids up for a showcase every Tuesday in hopes of their kid doing well enough for Jordan Chiero to praise him with a 20 second clip on their Instagram page the next day. Doing a couple of PBR showcases is fine but when parents make kids choose to attend those instead of practice with their teams/on their own, they're hurting their long term development.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Here are some of the problems with summer baseball right now-
1. There are WAY too many teams that were not created with the intentions of helping kids. The term SELECT baseball used to mean something but now it doesn't because Little Johnny's dad was upset with playing time on an elite team so him and the other know-it-all dads decided to leave and form their own team the following year. That cycle continued year after year and you have what is now the most watered down group of teams you can imagine. Now that group of dads have decided that instead of challenging their kids to play against elite competition, they'd rather go trophy hunting during the summer and play against another group of rag-tag teams every weekend. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR TROPHIES IN YOUR BASEMENT!
2. Showcases and college camps in the winter are killing the opportunities for kids to actually develop with their summer teams during the offseason. Monday-Friday are generally out of the question because with summer ball, kids aren't always centrally located so driving long distances after school can't always be expected. Showcases and College Camps have taken priority over player development/learning the game by most PARENTS because they're all searching for the Holy Grail of the college scholarship. Most HS teams are lifting and holding off-season open hitting/throwing workouts as well, so it makes it difficult for summer teams to hold practices. When parents pay for summer ball, its not going to be for offseason training unless that team has unimpeded access to a facility during the offseason.
3. Showcase companies hosting events every Tuesday/Wednesday during the summer is hurting kids' overall development in baseball. Its not on PBR, its not on kids, its on PARENTS for signing their kids up for a showcase every Tuesday in hopes of their kid doing well enough for Jordan Chiero to praise him with a 20 second clip on their Instagram page the next day. Doing a couple of PBR showcases is fine but when parents make kids choose to attend those instead of practice with their teams/on their own, they're hurting their long term development.
I agree with point one. When it comes to high school age "elite teams", there is no way SWO can support 5 elite programs (Midland, CBC, Flames, Five Star and kicking a handful of kids up to the Ohio Elite) Some programs want to develop kids from the ground up. Really did not see too much of that. Points 2 and 3 I really don't agree with because very rarely did I see the conflict that you bring up. But that has just been my experience. High school programs really could make a difference with development (and some do) but I don't know how much improvement one throwing session on Sunday helped my kid in the offseason versus a rigorous weight and met ball program.
 
.
Top