This Season's MVP?

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Harden

It could easily and realistically be argued that LeBron's proportional impact for his team's wins was greater than Harden's was, but it can't be ignored that LeBron pretty much checked out for a month to ensure that those trade deadline moves happened.

Maybe he did what he had to do. I'm sure it wasn't pleasant for him, but it negates placing his season above Harden's for me.
 

cjb56

Active member
LeBron. His impact on his team is only matched by Westbrook. Harden’s numbers are D’Antoni-inflated.
 

Taco MacArthur

Active member
LeBron. His impact on his team is only matched by Westbrook. Harden’s numbers are D’Antoni-inflated.
Not sure I entirely agree with that for this year. His numbers are very similar this year to 2015-16 before D'Antoni. I'm not sold on Westbrook having a high impact on his team, either.

2015-16: 29 ppg, 43.9% fg, 35.9% 3pt, 6.1 rpg, 7.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 4.6 turnovers per game.
2017-18: 30.4 ppg, 44.9% fg, 36.7% 3pt, 5.4 rpg, 8.8 apg, 1.8 spg, 4.4 turnovers per game.
 

Neopolitan

Cooling Off
Harden pretty obviously wins based on the typical criteria used for the MVP award. He was the best player for the team with the best record and led the league in scoring. It also helps he hasn't won one yet, and many think he should have one at least one time, maybe twice already.

Everyone knows the MVP award isn't actually about "who's the best player?" If it were, Jordan would have about 10 and Lebron would have near the same.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Cavs are a lottery team without LeBron. With him they are a threat to win the East if not the whole thing...Who is more valuable than that?

Statistically he played every game, led the league in points(3rd in avg), averaged career highs in rebounds and assists, shot 10% points better than Harden....maybe the finest season of an all time great in his 15th season.

Pretty clear who both the best player and most valuable is.
 

Taco MacArthur

Active member
Cavs are a lottery team without LeBron. With him they are a threat to win the East if not the whole thing...Who is more valuable than that?

Statistically he played every game, led the league in points(3rd in avg), averaged career highs in rebounds and assists, shot 10% points better than Harden....maybe the finest season of an all time great in his 15th season.

Pretty clear who both the best player and most valuable is.
This season, despite how great he was statistically, I'd say this was his 4th best season behind 2008-09, 09-10 and 12-13 by a good margin.
 

Zezzo!

Active member
LeBron should be but Harden will win it. The numbers mean nothing, overall LeBron has better numbers including more games played(every game). The biggest factor for me is although he plays in a lesser conference, the fact that his team was re-structured in mid-season, he was still able to carry that team to the playoffs. I also believe that Chris Paul took the pressure off of Harden, Harden was able to play off of Paul. IMO Paul was more valuable to Rockets but the true definition of "valuable" is not the definition of the award if it was LeBron would clearly be the winner.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Cavs are a lottery team without LeBron. With him they are a threat to win the East if not the whole thing...Who is more valuable than that?

Statistically he played every game, led the league in points(3rd in avg), averaged career highs in rebounds and assists, shot 10% points better than Harden....maybe the finest season of an all time great in his 15th season.

Pretty clear who both the best player and most valuable is.
If I was to "invent" the NBA MVP Award, I would look at it in much the same way that you do and reach the same conclusion. The Cavs would fall much lower if both players were removed.

Not sure how the award is determined, but I've heard conjecture that because Jordan won 5, LBJ wont ever be allowed to win as many.
 

Michael Bluth

Active member
I would vote for LeBron but Harden will win comfortably and I have no problem with that. Dude had an amazing season and his team has the best record. He's also been passed up a couple of times when he had a legitimate case
 

cjb56

Active member
Not sure I entirely agree with that for this year. His numbers are very similar this year to 2015-16 before D'Antoni. I'm not sold on Westbrook having a high impact on his team, either.

2015-16: 29 ppg, 43.9% fg, 35.9% 3pt, 6.1 rpg, 7.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 4.6 turnovers per game.
2017-18: 30.4 ppg, 44.9% fg, 36.7% 3pt, 5.4 rpg, 8.8 apg, 1.8 spg, 4.4 turnovers per game.
I’d be okay with Harden winning, but I think it’s easier to rack up big numbers in a D’Antoni offense, and with the Rockets supporting cast, than it is for LeBron with this Cavs team. Westbrook, to me, is the closest current player to LeBron in terms of ability and dominance.
 

Neopolitan

Cooling Off
I think if the Rockets don't make the finals because Harden comes up short in the playoffs again, you're probably looking at the last time anyone in a D'Antoni offense will win MVP.

This is by far the most talented team he's ever had and the Warriors injuries/struggles have lined up everything perfectly for them to win the title. If Harden pulls another disappearing act, you have to assume their style is just not built for the post-season, or there's some sort of mental block there.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I’d be okay with Harden winning, but I think it’s easier to rack up big numbers in a D’Antoni offense, and with the Rockets supporting cast, than it is for LeBron with this Cavs team. Westbrook, to me, is the closest current player to LeBron in terms of ability and dominance.
There’s something about Westbrook that doesn’t make everyone around him better. I know everyone thinks Curry is just a shooter, but I’d take him over Westbrook for my team every day.
 

Neopolitan

Cooling Off
It's definitely difficult to play with Westbrook. Oladipo looked like he was nothing but a role player last year, and now he's probably going to make 2nd team All-NBA.

I believe Russ' usage rate last year was the highest in the history of the NBA by a pretty significant margin. It's really hard to stand around on offense for 9/10 plays, and then be expected to make a play the 1/10 times you touch the ball.
 
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Arrogate

Active member
I think if the Rockets don't make the finals because Harden comes up short in the playoffs again, you're probably looking at the last time anyone in a D'Antoni offense will win MVP.

This is by far the most talented team he's ever had and the Warriors injuries/struggles have lined up everything perfectly for them to win the title. If Harden pulls another disappearing act, you have to assume their style is just not built for the post-season, or there's some sort of mental block there.
Paul and Harden have done what exactly in the playoffs? Mental aspect plays a huge role IMO
 

Levi

Active member
If you go by the actual meaning of MVP it is LeBron James.

James Harden has the Rockets with the best record in the NBA so that will win it especially since some have thought he has been shorted before with this award.

Are the Cavs better with Harden than with LeBron?

Are the Rockets better with LeBron then Harden?

I expect Harden to win.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
If you go by the actual meaning of MVP it is LeBron James.

James Harden has the Rockets with the best record in the NBA so that will win it especially since some have thought he has been shorted before with this award.

Are the Cavs better with Harden than with LeBron?

Are the Rockets better with LeBron then Harden?

I expect Harden to win.
CP3 and LBJ would be ridiculous.
 

14Red

New member
The whole LeBron debate makes me laugh. We've watched this guy now for 15 years. People use the lack of perceived talent around him and subsequent team greatness to LeBron's value.
For awhile I bought it. But now the formula is crystal clear. LeBron runs off or annoys and really good teammates so much that they either get traded or leave when they get a chance. Of course he's going to be the most valuable when he's making it miserable for all of this teammates.
LeBron is a great individual player, but just think how great he could have been as a team player if he could just work with others? Is it odd that a 6'8" forward has never had a true point guard on his team? Because he always wants the ball in his hands!! He's run off any point guard he's ever had. LeBron should be a small forward, but he has to have the ball in his hands all the time, and any coach who've tried to coach him is canned or goes away.
 

tallmadge H2 dad

Active member
I saw something kind of cool the other day... If LeBron and Paul George went to Houston, the lineup would look like this:

First name lineup:

Chris
Paul
LeBron
James

Last name lineup:

Paul
George
James
Harden
 

tallmadge H2 dad

Active member
The whole LeBron debate makes me laugh. We've watched this guy now for 15 years. People use the lack of perceived talent around him and subsequent team greatness to LeBron's value.
For awhile I bought it. But now the formula is crystal clear. LeBron runs off or annoys and really good teammates so much that they either get traded or leave when they get a chance. Of course he's going to be the most valuable when he's making it miserable for all of this teammates.
LeBron is a great individual player, but just think how great he could have been as a team player if he could just work with others? Is it odd that a 6'8" forward has never had a true point guard on his team? Because he always wants the ball in his hands!! He's run off any point guard he's ever had. LeBron should be a small forward, but he has to have the ball in his hands all the time, and any coach who've tried to coach him is canned or goes away.
Another baffling post by 14Red that could not be more wrong
 

joesports

Active member
The whole LeBron debate makes me laugh. We've watched this guy now for 15 years. People use the lack of perceived talent around him and subsequent team greatness to LeBron's value.
For awhile I bought it. But now the formula is crystal clear. LeBron runs off or annoys and really good teammates so much that they either get traded or leave when they get a chance. Of course he's going to be the most valuable when he's making it miserable for all of this teammates.
LeBron is a great individual player, but just think how great he could have been as a team player if he could just work with others? Is it odd that a 6'8" forward has never had a true point guard on his team? Because he always wants the ball in his hands!! He's run off any point guard he's ever had. LeBron should be a small forward, but he has to have the ball in his hands all the time, and any coach who've tried to coach him is canned or goes away.
Damn, I wish LeBron didn’t have the ball in his hands so much!
 
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