The Official 2019 Cincinnati Reds Thread

thavoice

Well-known member
The outfield can use some work, but really, going into last season we had Duvall and Hamilton as the only known commodities. Schebler, Winker, Ervin were all biding for playing time. Schebler won the job. And was ok, was playing pretty well until he ran into the wall at St. Louis and he was never the same after that. Winker was good until injured. I don't see see Schebler or Ervin as full time options for us. Schebler just strike out too much, any elevated fastball he swings right through. You can see it coming a mile away.

I think Winker has to play left field due to his footspeed. You generally put your weakest defensive outfielder in left.

Now I'm going to tread into murky waters next. You say the Reds outfield had the 4th worst production last year, and I'm guessing that just offensive.
As all of you know, I'm a big Billy fan. He's offensive shortcomings, he makes up for on defense, IMO. He's not a leadoff guy. If you can find a viable veteran right fielder. I think an outfield of Winker, Hamilton and XXX is pretty good.
Generally that is the case but I always wondered why. MOre right handed hitters in the league mean more hits to LF. Arm wise......more hits to LF means more plays at the plate from throws from LF

RF..yeah you have the 1st to 3rd throws and want a stronger arm but that aggression has gone away over the years for most players.


If I had to, I would still put my slower guy in RF
 

adselder09

Well-known member
Now I'm going to tread into murky waters next. You say the Reds outfield had the 4th worst production last year, and I'm guessing that just offensive.
As all of you know, I'm a big Billy fan. He's offensive shortcomings, he makes up for on defense, IMO. He's not a leadoff guy. If you can find a viable veteran right fielder. I think an outfield of Winker, Hamilton and XXX is pretty good.
Your "opinion" has been proven wrong more than a few times regarding Billy and how much his speed/defense actually makes up in terms of runs for an entire year - as opposed to his terrible numbers at the plate. The numbers actually show he hurts the Reds more with his offense than his defense makes up for. This has been shown to you multiple times.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Your "opinion" has been proven wrong more than a few times regarding Billy and how much his speed/defense actually makes up in terms of runs for an entire year - as opposed to his terrible numbers at the plate. The numbers actually show he hurts the Reds more with his offense than his defense makes up for. This has been shown to you multiple times.
Until we have another centerfielder who can play even near his level, AND provide the offense you want, I think you have to keep him around. I don't see anyone on our 40 man roster who can be Billy's replacement, do you?
 

adselder09

Well-known member
Until we have another centerfielder who can play even near his level, AND provide the offense you want, I think you have to keep him around. I don't see anyone on our 40 man roster who can be Billy's replacement, do you?
The numbers would say there are 3-4 outfielders on the 25-man roster than can replace him. Offense > Defense, this is how baseball is played now. The Red Sox just played JD Martinez in LF and RF out in Dodger stadium - hitting is much more important than defense.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Until we have another centerfielder who can play even near his level, AND provide the offense you want, I think you have to keep him around. I don't see anyone on our 40 man roster who can be Billy's replacement, do you?
For the 16th time. Schebler. Offense far outweighs defense.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
The Reds tried to play Schebler in center a few years ago, it's a trainwreck.
I realize numbers aren't your thing, and you avoid reality at all cost, but here: https://www.mlb.com/player/scott-schebler-594988?stats=career-r-fielding-mlb&year=2018

In 2016 he played 18 games in CF, with 1 error. in 2017 he played 15 games in CF, with 0 errors. 2018, 16 games in CF, 0 errors. Train wreck?

Oh, and he hit 30 HR in 2017, his only full season in the majors. He is a good 30 to 40 OBP points better than Billy. This is a no-brainer.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I realize numbers aren't your thing, and you avoid reality at all cost, but here: https://www.mlb.com/player/scott-schebler-594988?stats=career-r-fielding-mlb&year=2018

In 2016 he played 18 games in CF, with 1 error. in 2017 he played 15 games in CF, with 0 errors. 2018, 16 games in CF, 0 errors. Train wreck?

Oh, and he hit 30 HR in 2017, his only full season in the majors. He is a good 30 to 40 OBP points better than Billy. This is a no-brainer.
Reality is that errors for outfielders is a very misleading stat. You can't get an error on fly balls you don't get to. Billy can get to as many fly balls as anyone in baseball, possibly ever, and he's is at or near the top of the league in outfield assists as well.
Schebler isn't a natural centerfielder. Yes, he can catch a fly ball, I can find high school outfielder who can catch a routine fly ball. I'm just saying for a team with pitching issues, to weaken your most important outfield spot for a few more points of OPS is a bad idea.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
Wolves has shown to you numerous times how Billy doesnt save more runs than runs created by someone with even an average OPS. You choose to live with your head in the sand. You choose to ignore stats.

I get that you are trolling but dear god i don't know how you get through a single day.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Reality is that errors for outfielders is a very misleading stat. You can't get an error on fly balls you don't get to. Billy can get to as many fly balls as anyone in baseball, possibly ever, and he's is at or near the top of the league in outfield assists as well.
Schebler isn't a natural centerfielder. Yes, he can catch a fly ball, I can find high school outfielder who can catch a routine fly ball. I'm just saying for a team with pitching issues, to weaken your most important outfield spot for a few more points of OPS is a bad idea.
So you double and triple-down on your 'defense is more important than offense' stance? Show me a single stat that backs that up. Because I have shown you plenty that prove you are dead wrong. A team that has pitching issues needs to score a lot of runs, not save 1 run per week with great defense.

Thank you for bringing up OPS. I was being kind to Billy and using OBP. I agree that OPS is far more important, because it blends OBP and slugging.

Billy's career OPS is .631. Schebler is .781. Sorry for using numbers again, but that is not "a few more points". Billy ranked #139 out of 141 qualified MLB players in OPS last year. Billy is almost the Homer Bailey of non-pitchers.

You lose this argument every way possible, until you show me some stats to back up your ignorant opinion.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
So you double and triple-down on your 'defense is more important than offense' stance? Show me a single stat that backs that up. Because I have shown you plenty that prove you are dead wrong. A team that has pitching issues needs to score a lot of runs, not save 1 run per week with great defense.

Thank you for bringing up OPS. I was being kind to Billy and using OBP. I agree that OPS is far more important, because it blends OBP and slugging.

Billy's career OPS is .631. Schebler is .781. Sorry for using numbers again, but that is not "a few more points". Billy ranked #139 out of 141 qualified MLB players in OPS last year. Billy is almost the Homer Bailey of non-pitchers.

You lose this argument every way possible, until you show me some stats to back up your ignorant opinion.
You might need to explain .781 is much higher than .631. They havent gotten far yet in his 1st grade class yet
 

14Red

Well-known member
Wolves has shown to you numerous times how Billy doesnt save more runs than runs created by someone with even an average OPS. You choose to live with your head in the sand. You choose to ignore stats.

I get that you are trolling but dear god i don't know how you get through a single day.
I have no idea how you qualify a stat where a ball hit in the gap is caught by Billy, and it's a double for every other outfielder in baseball? I'm guessing there is no stat that forecasts the future. Schebler is a fine major league baseball player, and a right fielder. He's not a centerfielder.
As long as Billy is hitting in the 8 or 9 spot, I"m fine with him as our everyday centerfielder.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I have no idea how you qualify a stat where a ball hit in the gap is caught by Billy, and it's a double for every other outfielder in baseball? I'm guessing there is no stat that forecasts the future. Schebler is a fine major league baseball player, and a right fielder. He's not a centerfielder.
As long as Billy is hitting in the 8 or 9 spot, I"m fine with him as our everyday centerfielder.
Qualify. Lol.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
So you double and triple-down on your 'defense is more important than offense' stance? Show me a single stat that backs that up. Because I have shown you plenty that prove you are dead wrong. A team that has pitching issues needs to score a lot of runs, not save 1 run per week with great defense.

Thank you for bringing up OPS. I was being kind to Billy and using OBP. I agree that OPS is far more important, because it blends OBP and slugging.

Billy's career OPS is .631. Schebler is .781. Sorry for using numbers again, but that is not "a few more points". Billy ranked #139 out of 141 qualified MLB players in OPS last year. Billy is almost the Homer Bailey of non-pitchers.

You lose this argument every way possible, until you show me some stats to back up your ignorant opinion.
The reds should consider a guy like Nick Markakis. He is 34 so nothing more than a 2 year deal for maybe $16M with maybe an additional $4M in incentives. That would give them a solid corner bat.

Move Schebler to Center. Move on from Hamilton. Trade Gennett and put Senzel at 2b. Scooter could be a key piece in a trade for a pitcher.

This would upgrade the outfield and get Senzel in the lineup at one position everyday and hopefully bring back a good bullpen arm while saving up to $10M depending on the returning pitcher.

By the time Markakis is done, Trammel will be ready.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The reds should consider a guy like Nick Markakis. He is 34 so nothing more than a 2 year deal for maybe $16M with maybe an additional $4M in incentives. That would give them a solid corner bat.

Move Schebler to Center. Move on from Hamilton. Trade Gennett and put Senzel at 2b. Scooter could be a key piece in a trade for a pitcher.

This would upgrade the outfield and get Senzel in the lineup at one position everyday and hopefully bring back a good bullpen arm while saving up to $10M depending on the returning pitcher.

By the time Markakis is done, Trammel will be ready.
All this is ok, but there is no market for Scooter. There were teams in the playoffs playing guys at 2nd base who'd never played there before and they didn't even want him. I have no idea why, but there must be something about putting resources at 2nd base for alot of teams. Senzel is young, I think they want to turn him into a Kris Bryant type where he can play multiple corner positions. Today's baseball rosters are about flexibility, especially when you have 13 pitchers and only 4 bench players. You need guys who can play alot of positions.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
All this is ok, but there is no market for Scooter. There were teams in the playoffs playing guys at 2nd base who'd never played there before and they didn't even want him. I have no idea why, but there must be something about putting resources at 2nd base for alot of teams. Senzel is young, I think they want to turn him into a Kris Bryant type where he can play multiple corner positions. Today's baseball rosters are about flexibility, especially when you have 13 pitchers and only 4 bench players. You need guys who can play alot of positions.
So now you are okay with playing Schebler at center. Good.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
All this is ok, but there is no market for Scooter. There were teams in the playoffs playing guys at 2nd base who'd never played there before and they didn't even want him. I have no idea why, but there must be something about putting resources at 2nd base for alot of teams. Senzel is young, I think they want to turn him into a Kris Bryant type where he can play multiple corner positions. Today's baseball rosters are about flexibility, especially when you have 13 pitchers and only 4 bench players. You need guys who can play alot of positions.
So if there is no market for Scooter as you say then the Reds should not offer arbitration the sign him to a low ball contract for a year.

I highly doubt there is no market for Scooter this offseason.
 
.
Top