The Northeast District Cross Country placements are up.

psycho_dad

Well-known member

I will go way out on a limb and predict the state champions D2 boys will come from Lorain Community College District.

Nice job by the NE Board to equally distribute the private schools in D2.

Is Rootstown / D3 boys teams better off being bumped up to D2 in the NE?
 
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Spartan1969

New member
Rootstown graduated most of their team from last year. Im sure they wish they were still in D3. Going to be tough treading with new runners in a more populated division. Rootstown though has always done a good job of putting a quality team on the line at the end of the season.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
I was thinking more in general. With East Canton, McDonald and Maplewood, is it an easier road in D2 for the boys?
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I was thinking more in general. With East Canton, McDonald and Maplewood, is it an easier road in D2 for the boys?
You can always find individual examples to buck a trend, but I'd generally rather be in the smaller division where there isn't as much depth, especially if I'm going to be on the larger side of the enrollment pool.

It's far from a perfect indicator, but Rootstown's boys had an avg. time of 19:18 at last fall's regional which placed them 10th in the DIII competition. They also got to help tear up the course a little more for the DII boys where the last place team's average time was 19:12. Rootstown's #1 runner's regional time would've placed him 79th in the DII team scoring, so even if they came in 4 in-a-row right behind him, that's roughly 400 team pts. which puts them 3rd to last and 11 places away from the 6th and final team spot in DII. It's all moot for now though since, as Spartan pointed out, Rootstown graduated so much from last year (4 of their top 5 regional performers). However, they could always rebuild in a hurry. If what I was told by a relative who lives in Rootstown is accurate, students who are enrolled at the Bio-Med Academy (@ NEOMed) are eligible to play sports either at Rootstown or at the HS in their home district. Some choose to compete for Rootstown for ease of logistics since it's right across the street from NEOMed.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
You are right. I should have done some comparisons. I shouldn't have singled out Rootstown. 3 or 4 years ago they were much better but last year they were not so strong. I saw other traditionally D3 teams that have moved up too. Is the D3-D2 line moving down a bit?
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
You are right. I should have done some comparisons. I shouldn't have singled out Rootstown. 3 or 4 years ago they were much better but last year they were not so strong. I saw other traditionally D3 teams that have moved up too. Is the D3-D2 line moving down a bit?
I have enrollment numbers going back to the headcounts from the fall of 2008 (which would be used to determine divisions for XC season 2009 and 2010). I can estimate what the divisional cut-offs looked like by comparing a few schools' headcounts to which division they were in. Let's see what we got:

2009-2010 cut-offs (compared 2008 headcount to 2009 district results)
Girls D1-D2: 354 to 356 (Big Walnut had 353 and was D2. Padua had 356 and was D1.)
Girls D2-D3: either 186 or 187 (Tuslaw had 186 and was D3. West Muskingum had 188 and was D2.)
Boys D1-D2: 357 to 359 (Wapakoneta had 356 and was D2. Lake Catholic had 359 and was D1.)
Boys D2-D3: either 186 or 187 (Purcell-Marian had 186 and was D3. LaBrae had 188 and was D2.)

2011-2012 cut-offs (compared 2010 headcount to 2011 district results)
Girls D1-D2: 331 (Ravenna had 330 and was D2. Cols. Desales had 331 and was D1.)
Girls D2-D3: 168 (Coldwater had 167 and was D3. Paulding had 168 and was D2.)
Boys D1-D2: either 338 or 339 (Tallmadge had 337 and was D2. Chillicothe had 339 and was D1.)
Boys D2-D3: 177 (Madeira had 176 and was D3. Norwayne had 177 and was D2.)

Can't do anything worth a darn for 2013-2014 because of the whole combined enrollment thingy

2015-2016 cut-offs (compared 2014 headcount to 2015 district results)

Girls D1-D2: 304 (Marietta has 304 and was D2. Dover had 305 and was D1.)
Girls D2-D3: 147 (Black River had 146 and was D3. Martins Ferry had 147 and was D2.)
Boys D1-D2: either 327 or 328 (Bowling Green had 326 and was D2. Chillicothe had 328 and was D1.)
Boys D2-D3: either 156 or 157 (Pymatuning Valley had 155 and was D3. Sandy Valley had 157 and was D2.)

2017-2018 cut-offs (compared 2016 headcount to 2017 district results)
Girls D1-D2: 325 or 326 (Mansfield Madison had 324 and was D2. Granville had 326 and was D1.)
Girls D2-D3: 163 (Union Local had 162 and was D3. Chippewa had 163 and was D2.)
Boys D1-D2: 311 to 314 (Lake Catholic had 310 and was D2. Geneva had 314 and was D1.)
Boys D2-D3: 161 (East Palestine had 160 and was D3. CHCA had 161 and was D2.)

Current cut-offs
Girls D1-D2: 308
Girls D2-D3: 157
Boys D1-D2: 308
Boys D2-D3: 159

D2-D3 is way down from a decade ago which is most likely due to families leaving Ohio around the time of the '08 Recession. Numbers seem to have stabilized in more recent times. The greater determining factor now might be how many schools can put teams together to nudge the cut-offs a few students in one direction or another.
 

CoventryTrackXCguy

Active member
My thoughts on the Glen Oak District d2 Boys:

-SVSM will be down from the state runner up team they were last year. They lost their top 3 to graduation and there was a substantial gap between their 3 and 4-7. With that being said "down" is only relative when discussing a team like SVSM. They will still be formidable, and have to be considered the heavy favorite to win the district.

-Tuslaw on the other hand is facing a far tougher rebuild. They lost 4 of their top 5, and 5 of their top 7. I don't think they will be as capable of reloading, as SVSM usually is. Tuslaw could very well be out of contention for the top 4 in this district, but we shall see.

-Coventry and Springfield both return a lot, and are both very up and coming programs I think it should come down to those 2 for 2nd and 3rd spots. These schools, being ptc rivals, and whom will be facing each other quite a bit this season, should push each other a lot. Also, if either of these programs can really put together a strong season, either could put pressure on SVSM.

-Other teams to keep an eye on include Orrville, Fairless, Chippewa, Rootstown, Marlington, and West Branch.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Mr. Slippery, are there more smaller schools offering CC...Fielding full teams.

LCCC - Boys - Woodridge brings back the best team in the state. Bay should be a top state level team. Cloverleaf and Tallmadge bring back solid foundations and should be in the mix to qualify to the state meet. Fairview should be right there with Cloverleaf and Tallmadge. Clearly the top District.

GlenOak - Boys - $V$M then who knows. I agree Coventry and Springfield should be right there, but it's time for those two teams to step it up at the Regional level and at least be in the top 10.

Trumble - Boys - Salem is a team that should have top 10 in the state as a goal. Poland and Lakeview are right there where Springfield and Coventry are and should be looking at next level.

Madison - NDCL, Lake Catholic and Chagrin Falls seem to put solid teams on the line.

Woodridge is better this year than last year and they will bring back a tough team next year. who knows after that?
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Mr. Slippery, are there more smaller schools offering CC...Fielding full teams.

LCCC - Boys - Woodridge brings back the best team in the state. Bay should be a top state level team. Cloverleaf and Tallmadge bring back solid foundations and should be in the mix to qualify to the state meet. Fairview should be right there with Cloverleaf and Tallmadge. Clearly the top District.

GlenOak - Boys - $V$M then who knows. I agree Coventry and Springfield should be right there, but it's time for those two teams to step it up at the Regional level and at least be in the top 10.

Trumble - Boys - Salem is a team that should have top 10 in the state as a goal. Poland and Lakeview are right there where Springfield and Coventry are and should be looking at next level.

Madison - NDCL, Lake Catholic and Chagrin Falls seem to put solid teams on the line.

Woodridge is better this year than last year and they will bring back a tough team next year. who knows after that?
I dug around through this forum trying to find previous years' cut-offs and how many teams existed when those cut-offs were made, but I came up empty. In NEO at least, the DIII schools clearly did a better job of getting more teams out last year since the girls will have 14 teams at the regional this year as compared to 11 last year, and the boys gained 1 team to go from 12 to 13. As a result, the girls gained an extra team spot plus 4 individual spots to state.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Bay boys look very good again this year. Started off the season at Keystone with a solid performance. Very similar to last years team. I would think they are in good shape to start the season #2 in the polls for D2
 
With little course comparison used, Madeira ran a bit faster at the Pre State meet than Bay did at Keystone, so I would expect them to be ranked #2
Heck, some may even give Madeira a first place vote
 

KevinL

Member
With little course comparison used, Madeira ran a bit faster at the Pre State meet than Bay did at Keystone, so I would expect them to be ranked #2
Heck, some may even give Madeira a first place vote
Bay boys definitely practiced pack running last night, they have much more potential than they showed.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
1. Woodridge I don't think there is even an argument against this.
Gap
2. Bay
3. Heath
Gap
4 Edison
5. Johnathan Alder
6. Minerva
7. Madeira
8. Carroll
9. Eaton
 

CCFREAK

Member
1. Woodridge #1 for sure.
2. Bay
3. Heath
4. Carroll will be solid
5. Jonathan Alder
6. Madeira
7. Minerva
8. Edison
9. West Liberty-Salem
10. Eaton
 
Definitely no argument at this time, although in 2017 Rocky River and then in 2018 Shelby, were both undefeated favorites heading
to the D2 State Meet.
I doubt that fate would happen to Woodridge.
Maderia clobbered Carroll at the Pre State and should be ranked ahead of them at this time
Heath and Edison would be my 3-4 at this time.
I'm mostly guessing until we see then run.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
billcarson throws down and says Bay is going to take out Woodridge in the end. Pretty bold. I like your confidence.
 

KevinL

Member
Sorry for the long post that most of you probably don't care about. I"m trying to understand how "they" assign teams to districts. Disclaimer, my team is simply trying to get over the hump and make it to Regionals for the first time. Talking specifically about Girls D2.

For this discussion, returning full teams means they ran at the same district last year and had 5+ girls finish.
Glenoak had 14 returning full teams including 1 state qualifier (SVSM).
LCCC had 13 returning full teams including 2 state qualifiers (Beaumont & Woodridge).
Madison had 13 returning full teams including 2 state qualifiers (Chagrin Falls & Edgewood).
Trumbull had 11 returning full teams including 1 state qualifier (Hawken).

Madison had 2 of their returning 13 teams moved out.
Trumbull got Crestwood from Madison ... because Trumbull had the fewest teams to start?
LCCC got Laurel from Madison ... not sure why?
LCCC also got Cleveland Central Catholic from Madison ... not a full team last year so no major impact.

The following teams transferred to D2 from other Divisions.

LCCC got Lutheran West (D3 Regional Qualifier)

Madison got Geneva (full team from Madison D1)
Madison got Shaw (incomplete team from Madison D1)
Madison got Harvey (can't find any district results last year)

Trumbull got Cardinal Mooney (from Trumbull D3)
Trumbull got Youngstown East (can't find any district results last year)

Glenoak got Trinity (full team from Medina D3)
Glenoak got St Martin de Porres (can't find any district results from last year)

So in summary:
Trumbull added Crestwood, Mooney and 1 likely incomplete team (Ytown East)
Madison added Geneva and 2 likely incomplete teams (Harvey, Shaw)
Glenoak added Trinity and 1 likely incomplete team (St Martin)
LCCC added Lutheran West, Laurel, and likely 1 incomplete team (CCC)

Shouldn't Trumbull be getting more of the new teams, before we add more teams to LCCC and Glenoak?

I realize there are many moving parts, including travel time, where is the boys team, LCCC doesn't have D3, Madison doesn't have D3, Medina doesn't have D2, and probably more that I don't even know.

But when the district page shows an imbalance of teams, I have to wonder how it came to be.
LCCC 17 schools (16 teams, 1 incomplete)
Glenoak 17 schools (16 teams, 1 incomplete)
Madison 15 schools (14 teams, 1 incomplete)
Trumbull 15 schools (12 teams, 3 incomplete)

https://ohsaa.org/Northeast-Sports-Tournaments/Cross-Country
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
I would think they have to change the number of teams that qualify to the Regional meet based off of actual full teams. Trumbull only has 12 full girls teams, Madison 14 and Glenoak has 16, and yet Madison and Trumbull get 5 teams to Regional while Glenoak only gets 4.

I have not idea why the teams get assigned where they are, but geography is not the only factor. I was under the impression that they might seed teams, but that did not happen.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Found this in the Board Minutes from the most recent OHSAA meeting:

B. Approval of 2019 Regional and State Cross Country Sites The Board was provided with the proposed regional and state cross country tournament sites for 2019 as prepared by Dale Gabor, the OHSAA’s cross country administrator. Regionals will be held on Saturday, October 26. Division III girls will be held at 11:00, Division II girls at 11:45, Division I girls at 12:30, Division III boys at 1:30, Division II boys at 2:15 and Division I boys at 3:00. The sites are Youngstown Boardman, Tiffin Hedges Boyer Park, Pickerington High School North and Troy. The state cross country tournaments will be held for the seventh consecutive year at National Trail Raceway in Hebron on November 2.

This isn't earth-shattering stuff for 3/4 of the state, but there was some uncertainty regarding the site of the NE Regional Meet due to personnel changes involving people linked to the Boardman Invite and Regional Meet.
 
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Not sure that is correct information. Last year the girls had 20 teams and the boys 19 at Regional. Is that only 4 boys teams from Glenoak and 5 girls teams??
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Not sure that is correct information. Last year the girls had 20 teams and the boys 19 at Regional. Is that only 4 boys teams from Glenoak and 5 girls teams??
You are right. I looked at how the boys were listed first and the girls below them and when I was panned all the way to right, I assumed boys were listed on top as far as qualifiers and the girls below. However, it still sucks that a District with 12 teams and one with 14 will get the same number of qualifiers as the two with 16 or more.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
In the CC polls, I'm not sure why Woodridge girls are ranked below Poland Seminary. Tallmadge should be above them too. Tallmadge should be about 10th or 11th, then Woodridge right behind them, then Poland Seminary. Woodridge has beaten Poland twice head to head and Tallmadge has beaten them both. Minerva should be below all of them.

At LCCC; Beaumont, Tallmadge and Woodridge should take 3 of the 5 spots. Who is going to grab the next 2?

Glenoak is $V$M and that's about it. ? Springfield , Marlington

Trumbull; Poland Seminary , Salem, Lakeview...?

Madison; Edgewood, ... Chagrin Falls ?
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Boys;

LCCC: Woodridge, Bay (possibly best two in state D2) Cloverleaf, Fairview...Tallmadge?

Glenoak; $V$M............Tuslaw, Akron Springfield

Trumbull; Poland, Salem.. toss up after that.

Madison; NDCL, Field, Edgewood
 

KevinL

Member
In the CC polls, I'm not sure why Woodridge girls are ranked below Poland Seminary. Tallmadge should be above them too. Tallmadge should be about 10th or 11th, then Woodridge right behind them, then Poland Seminary. Woodridge has beaten Poland twice head to head and Tallmadge has beaten them both. Minerva should be below all of them.

At LCCC; Beaumont, Tallmadge and Woodridge should take 3 of the 5 spots. Who is going to grab the next 2?
I agree on your 3 teams. Bay girls are D1 this year so it won't be them. Cloverleaf has qualified from LCCC every year since being added to this district in 2015. I expect they will advance again. Hathaway Brown looks to be the other team to advance.
 
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