Team Stats

Peak

Member
Curious on takes from others on this site. I had a conversation with a HC and an Asst Coach of a 14u team the other night about making Team stats available on a team website. While I'm not advocating for it either way, I have seen some teams do it while others do not. The HC is of the opinion that he wants to keep his teams information close to his vest. That by putting stats online, it could give competition an advantage knowing team ERA, offensive productivity, steal rates, etc. The Asst Coach was of the mindset that it may be time to start putting that information out there for recruiting purposes, as the team is either going into HS, or will be in the next year. He's explained that having that information online and accessible to scouts/recruiters/college coaches will be important for those players who want to work towards playing college ball.

Questions I have from this conversation:
1) Is there truth in the argument that keeping stats hidden from other teams is an advantage? Do teams/coaches go out and actively "stalk" or use team/player stats to build game plans for tournaments? I know coaches use their own teams' stats to build out pitching rotations and batting lineups, but would a coach have the time/ability to go find, document, and analyze another team's stats for a one or two game matchup on a tournament weekend?

2) What information do scouts/recruiters/college coaches look for when determining which players to consider? Does having this info on a team site help or hurt the process?

3) Social media has been a growing influence lately, especially with Pitching Ninja, Flatground, etc. These folks put out stats/performances online constantly. It's more of a "look at me!" kind of movement, but still, the player and their affiliation is shown online. How much of this exposure is needed vs a team website? If the team has a social media account (Twitter, IG, etc), does it weight more than a team website? I would think it's easier to get snippets out in the public eye quicker, but a team site would allow for data collection and analysis. With that said, I'm no scout or college coach, so what do I know? :ROFLMAO:
 

fortfan

Member
I think most places that give you stats online will give the option to make the stats only viewable to people that are approved?

For instance we use Gamechanger and we can make the stats private except to family members.
 

thePITman

Active member
I coach a 14U team. Here is my $0.02.

To answer your questions:
1) Most coaches do not. However, I do. Every team we play in tournaments I will find on GameChanger a week in advance. I check box scores, pitchers, and lineup, then compare to the lineup when we face them. In our last tournament, one team had a stud that carries them (confirmed by speaking to the coach of a team that faced them several times). We intentionally walked him 2 times with runners on base and forced someone else to get the big hit, and it worked out. But again, this is rare.

2) IMO, 14U summer baseball statistics are not going to get a kid recruited. Period.

For my teams, we use GameChanger. I make stats available to confirmed players and family members only, not to general fans or the public. It is fun for the kids and parents to see those numbers, and it also helps justify many of my coaching decisions without having to deal with parents (numbers don't lie, but I'm also very comfortable justifying gut instinct decisions, obviously).

In the end, it's 14U, so it really doesn't matter. It's more about developing kids' skills and building their love for the game so they continue to play for 4+ more years. Has a team ever lost a game because their stats were available? Who knows.

I am the statistician for our high school's varsity football and basketball teams, and I've seen different philosophies even among the various high school coaches that have come and gone. Some keep everything 100% secret (except for weekly emails to newspaper, or if a radio station requests stats prior to a game they will be calling). Others think publicity is great for awards and recognition, and they have me upload stats to MaxPreps and allow me to tweet top performers after each game.

As for recruiting, stats look pretty, but if you have a varsity coach worth anything that can network with college coaches and get those connections started, the real evaluations are when they see you in person.
 
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Peak

Member
2) IMO, 14U summer baseball statistics are not going to get a kid recruited. Period.
Ha! I knew I wrote that up oddly. The conversation wasn't so much 14u, as it was about Freshman and up (15u-17u?). Or maybe not age specific, if that helps. The conversation came up because the organization they coach for encourages their coaches to use team websites and social media to tout their players and share stats. I can see both sides of the coin, and I agree with your sentiment that stats aren't going to get a kid recruited by themselves. Good insight in how you react with coaches today and the differing approaches. Do you find newer/younger coaches are open to having the information out there? Or is it more of the older/veteran type coaches who want the publicity?

I've used different tools (Gamechange, iScore, etc) and there are different levels of data sharing/permissions. Interesting take on how a coach can use another team's info for matchups. I wonder how often that occurs. It makes sense to do something like that, but I'm sure that doesn't happen all that often. You may be right in that the scenario is rare.
 

thePITman

Active member
Good insight in how you react with coaches today and the differing approaches. Do you find newer/younger coaches are open to having the information out there? Or is it more of the older/veteran type coaches who want the publicity?
Of the 7 varsity coaches for whom I've been the statistician, the 3 older ones have all been in favor of public stats, whereas the younger 4 have leaned more towards keeping things close to the vest.
 
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tcgobucks

Active member
Stats for ANY summer team, whether it's 14U, 15U or 17U.....are meaningless. College coaches won't recruit a kid unless they've seen him play. I don't have a problem with posting HS stats. Most HS's use Gamechanger so fans who can't make the games can follow....and you have the option of allowing the stats to be shown....or only allowing verified followers to see them. Stats from HS will also have ZERO effect on college recruiting....heck, depending on the school and the league, a lot of the top level kids are seeing much better competition in the summer. Stats are fine for HS....most leagues base league honors on them...and they are typically important for district and state honors....but beyond that, other than having something to look at on off days, it's not important. I can't imagine many coaches are going online and looking up teams they are playing in the upcoming days and making decisions based on that. Heck, if a team on our schedule has a kid with 6 HR's, we already know about him...we don't need stats to tell our pitchers to be careful lol
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Yawn.
As a coach I would prefer to keep my team stats in house as much as possible because, well, because. Sans a good scouting report, it is a way to guage your opponent.

Buddy of mine started scouting for the HS team awhile ago. One time he wore a shirt/hat from where he played college ball.
Reps from both teams actively handed over stats and info thinking he was a scout, so he kept doing it for a few other times.

While it isn't the end all, be all it can help another team.

With that said, I have no idea what the stats were from our team the last couple of years. I go by the eye test.

and to be quite honest with you, it is freaking 14 yr old kids. Big Fing deal.
 

BackwardsK

New member
14u stats...yawn....High School stats have relevance only at the end of season to hand out at the banquet to justify awards and for nominations at conference meetings to choose all-league winners. In season any coach worth his salt knows who is performing or not without looking at a piece of paper. Stats, and all parents care about is offensive ones (never heard of a parent asking for defensive ones), don't cover all aspects of a kids game and how he contributes, especially defensively or by on field leadership,
 

BlueDevil Backer

Active member
Curious on takes from others on this site. I had a conversation with a HC and an Asst Coach of a 14u team the other night about making Team stats available on a team website. While I'm not advocating for it either way, I have seen some teams do it while others do not. The HC is of the opinion that he wants to keep his teams information close to his vest. That by putting stats online, it could give competition an advantage knowing team ERA, offensive productivity, steal rates, etc. The Asst Coach was of the mindset that it may be time to start putting that information out there for recruiting purposes, as the team is either going into HS, or will be in the next year. He's explained that having that information online and accessible to scouts/recruiters/college coaches will be important for those players who want to work towards playing college ball.

Questions I have from this conversation:
1) Is there truth in the argument that keeping stats hidden from other teams is an advantage? Do teams/coaches go out and actively "stalk" or use team/player stats to build game plans for tournaments? I know coaches use their own teams' stats to build out pitching rotations and batting lineups, but would a coach have the time/ability to go find, document, and analyze another team's stats for a one or two game matchup on a tournament weekend?

2) What information do scouts/recruiters/college coaches look for when determining which players to consider? Does having this info on a team site help or hurt the process?

3) Social media has been a growing influence lately, especially with Pitching Ninja, Flatground, etc. These folks put out stats/performances online constantly. It's more of a "look at me!" kind of movement, but still, the player and their affiliation is shown online. How much of this exposure is needed vs a team website? If the team has a social media account (Twitter, IG, etc), does it weight more than a team website? I would think it's easier to get snippets out in the public eye quicker, but a team site would allow for data collection and analysis. With that said, I'm no scout or college coach, so what do I know? :ROFLMAO:
Responses to your questions:

1) Does it happen? Yes there are coaches who do look for this info and I've done it before in the past to see if I can find info on the team I am playing. While I'm not sure seeing a teams stats gives the opposing team an advantage, it does allow teams to see names of players and what their stats are to determine who might be the better pitchers or hitters on the team and allow them to pitch hitters a certain way.

2) Scouts and College coaches do not care about stats, so they are worthless for that reason. I've spoken to several college scouts and coaches and they feel stats can be so subjective. One scorekeeper may score a batted ball a hit and another scorekeeper scores it an error. Scouts and College coaches alike want to see a player for themselves in game situations to see how they play the game, how they act on the field, and they can get stats on their own for what they care about (i.e. home to 1st times, velo off the mound, etc.)

3) Team website are getting outdated and nothing more than for the programs to advertise what they do, who their coaches are and their background, and to list their teams and how many players they have put into college. Social Media is the new day and age of recruiting and getting players exposure. However, I preface that those social media posts, video's etc catch the attention of scouts and coaches at the college and professional ranks and gives initial exposure for a scout or college coach to put that kid on their list to go watch. It does however take a lot of time to build your network, create those relationships, and make those social media posts. Someone with a vast social media network and has been credible is going to serve a greater means for social media outreach for a player than just your typical newcomer to the social media scene.
 

Barrell roll

New member
Ha! I knew I wrote that up oddly. The conversation wasn't so much 14u, as it was about Freshman and up (15u-17u?). Or maybe not age specific, if that helps. The conversation came up because the organization they coach for encourages their coaches to use team websites and social media to tout their players and share stats. I can see both sides of the coin, and I agree with your sentiment that stats aren't going to get a kid recruited by themselves. Good insight in how you react with coaches today and the differing approaches. Do you find newer/younger coaches are open to having the information out there? Or is it more of the older/veteran type coaches who want the publicity?

I've used different tools (Gamechange, iScore, etc) and there are different levels of data sharing/permissions. Interesting take on how a coach can use another team's info for matchups. I wonder how often that occurs. It makes sense to do something like that, but I'm sure that doesn't happen all that often. You may be right in that the scenario is rare.
No it wasn't written oddly. You really think stats matter at 14. Well here's a real shocker. They don't even matter when they're 17, 18. Stats that matter......grades, exit velo, 60, and how hard you throw. Then measurable's, height, weight, and character.
 

Peak

Member
No it wasn't written oddly. You really think stats matter at 14. Well here's a real shocker. They don't even matter when they're 17, 18. Stats that matter......grades, exit velo, 60, and how hard you throw. Then measurable's, height, weight, and character.
Completely agree with you, and thanks for the responses. What I meant was I should've kept age out of the equation and focused on the actual questions about public information and team uses. I knew once I put 14u in there, I would get the "stats don't matter at 14u" crowd. I was more interested in seeing responses like yours in how public information is used by other teams, coaches, recruiters today - if they even are used.

I've heard differing views on college recruiting about stats matter, but not as much as how they play on the field or their intangibles. That stats can get someone's attention, but their play is what piques the interest. I also heard that with social media, stats take a back seat as every person in the stand is an amateur sportscaster broadcasting their "top play" moment to their online network. I find it interesting and was wondering what others think and if there was some consensus as to what coaches and organizations consider important for college recruiting.

But as soon as I mention an age, any other question I put out there is background noise it seems.:cautious:
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I still stand by my comments that statistics can be beneficial into formulating a basic scouting report and if you pair that with actual eyes on scouting then you can get a pretty good idea.

In terms of doing this for some travel sort of team I doubt I would ever get into it. If someone handed me the stats I would certainly take a look, but unless it is during the high school season I wouldn't bother at any of the garden variety tournaments.
 

fortfan

Member
As far as using stats to scout other teams....yeah-we do it. Spray charts would be nice to have if you can get them, but most teams have that protected. Stats won't show however how hard a pitcher throws, what pitch he likes to throw in certain situations...stuff like that you only get from watching them play.

First questions a college coach will ask a high school coach - How big is he? How hard does he throw? What kind of student is he?

I have never had a college coach or scout ask for stats, but I did have several pro scouts ask for stats when we had a kid that they were looking at.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
As far as using stats to scout other teams....yeah-we do it. Spray charts would be nice to have if you can get them, but most teams have that protected. Stats won't show however how hard a pitcher throws, what pitch he likes to throw in certain situations...stuff like that you only get from watching them play.

First questions a college coach will ask a high school coach - How big is he? How hard does he throw? What kind of student is he?

I have never had a college coach or scout ask for stats, but I did have several pro scouts ask for stats when we had a kid that they were looking at.
Stats will always be a part of the equation but the eye test and word of mouth goes a lon way. We had a scout who would call us each summer asking of our team and opponents and we were always honest so he trusted us. After seeing some play he would ask for stats to verify what he saw. Same with at the state acme tourny, of which 10 plus schools were there to see acrion, they would ask for stats on kids they saw something on mostly to verify wathey saw. Unfortunately stats get so skewed but a lot of people know the main offenders
 
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