Steubenville's Travels (Or Lack Thereof)

I suspect Massillon isn't too far behind Steubenville on home games. Over the last 6 seasons the Tigers have played 40 of their 60 games at home.
 
19AL63 said:
I do not know what Steubenville pays the visiting teams to come play in their backyard, but if I was a A.D. it would be home and home or I would not play. End of subject. Strange how many teams that end up needing a game end up for the one and only with Big Red. I do not know how much the Steubenville A.D. gets paid but he earns his money with the amount of time and work he has to go through filling out the football schedule each year.
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This is exactly what happened with the Shoremen. Several years ago Avon Lake and Steubenville were in talks to play. The Big Red would not agree to a home and home so the it never happened.
 
Cali_Eagle said:
Some years back, the late Fairwood King, (a Steubenville native and Big Red backer/poster who knew Reno personally) posted here that he asked Reno about the high number of home games and was told that Steubenville made a lot more money by playing at home to packed houses at Harding Stadium, and that even if he had to pay extra large guarantees, or pickup hotel/motel and some other travel costs for some opposition, the program still invariably came out way ahead financially.

Money always talks so I tend to believe they do this more for the substantial income rather than purely for competitive reasons. I'm sure the competition side is a sweet bonus, plus the fact that their fans must love having 7-8 home games a season to watch a winning team play generally quality opposition.

Steubenville is in a league (The very large W VA-Ohio OVAC) but the scheduling requirements aren't onerous, they only have to play a couple of league members a season.

Even if most teams quit their leagues to try and do this (most schools wouldn't dream of voluntarily leaving their leagues) most couldn't even hope to pull this off. You need to be a State Power type team with a rabid following to do this. You can count the teams around the State up pretty quickly that could do this. Warren Harding, Massillon both spring to mind. I'm sure there are others too, but they aren't close to being in the majority.
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There is no doubt in my mind there is no better scheduler in the state than Reno. He has mastered the art of making money, filling the schedule with home games and making the playoffs. The guy has won his region 9 of 12 years. Heck, it's been 16 years since they missed the playoffs.

When you are kind of isolated like they are, playing any good team on the road involves a long road trip. So what they do is reduce that to 2-3 road trips a year. This means more folks are willing to travel and they get great support on the road. It's a win/win all around.
 
19AL63 said:
I do not know what Steubenville pays the visiting teams to come play in their backyard, but if I was a A.D. it would be home and home or I would not play. End of subject. Strange how many teams that end up needing a game end up for the one and only with Big Red. I do not know how much the Steubenville A.D. gets paid but he earns his money with the amount of time and work he has to go through filling out the football schedule each year.
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They have dipped out on return trips in home and homes. They did it to Massie. Massie came to Steubenville in 2015 and then they refused to make the return trip to Massie this year. They filled that date with some garbage team from PA while Massie was stuck finding a game.
 
Crimson and Black said:
Hopin.... great point. The rape story isn't even a story in so many places. If it happens (and it does everywhere in America) in a place of a mediocre football program it would have gotten little to no attention.
Let's see. Repeated stories on the three national news stories. A whole PBS show devoted to the rape. A "20/20" segment on it. "Sixty Minutes" covered it, as did "Today", "Good Morning America", and "CBS Morning." Front page stories in the New York Times, the Washington Post, USA Today, the Wall Street Journal. Nah, the rape story wasn't a story in so many places, just every part of the USA.
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The reason its a thing is because a School is signing a home and home contract and then cancelling the back half of the contract so that that they can have 1 game on their schedule at home. This vreates an undue burden on the school which was left hanging and used.

It's misleading. It's opposite of the spirit of intent of being a member of the OHSAA.
 
Con_Alma said:
The reason its a thing is because a School is signing a home and home contract and then cancelling the back half of the contract so that that they can have 1 game on their schedule at home. This vreates an undue burden on the school which was left hanging and used.

It's misleading. It's opposite of the spirit of intent of being a member of the OHSAA.
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The thread was about Steubenville's large percentage of home games in general. It's not a thing.

As far as Steubenville backing out of road games; caveat emptor.
 
Caveat emptor does not apply. The responsibility is not on the person who was left hanging when all agree to the good sportsmanship of the gathering together to compete in an association.

It's a sad state of affairs that such a community shrugs it's shoulders and has the attitude of, "Oh well". The program is truly earning all the venomous comments thrown their way.

Once again, it's a lack of perspective on the role of athletics in high school.

The reason it needs to be highlighted further and made a thing is to continue to pass the very real negative approach that this program takes, so that as many other communities/programs as possible have the ability to avoid any such engagement with them.
 
EastYoungstown said:
They have dipped out on return trips in home and homes. They did it to Massie. Massie came to Steubenville in 2015 and then they refused to make the return trip to Massie this year. They filled that date with some garbage team from PA while Massie was stuck finding a game.
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If I was an AD in talks with Steubenville and wanted or needed a home and home, I could see trusting them once. If I got burned (as in the quoted post), and I was for some crazy reason even inclined to want to talk to them again after having been burned, I'd insist that my school got the first home game PLUS got made whole on the game they didn't play. IOW, 2 at my school's field, then we come play you. If not, well... there are 700 + football playing schools in Ohio plus more in whatever state(s) I am closest to. Time to talk with someone else. Compared to most States in the USA, Ohio is almost always reasonably close to another state(s) no matter where you are within Ohio.

Other schools can learn something from Clinton-Massie's experience and also insist on getting the first game. Any other school can only screw you once, after that, it's on you. Any other school that does that, also runs the risk of getting a rep for that and that will only make it harder to get games in football or in other sports.
 
Cali_Eagle said:
If I was an AD in talks with Steubenville and wanted or needed a home and home, I could see trusting them once. If I got burned (as in the quoted post), and I was for some crazy reason even inclined to want to talk to them again after having been burned, I'd insist that my school got the first home game PLUS got made whole on the game they didn't play. IOW, 2 at my school's field, then we come play you. If not, well... there are 700 + football playing schools in Ohio plus more in whatever state(s) I am closest to. Time to talk with someone else. Compared to most States in the USA, Ohio is almost always reasonably close to another state(s) no matter where you are within Ohio.

Other schools can learn something from Clinton-Massie's experience and also insist on getting the first game. Any other school can only screw you once, after that, it's on you. Any other school that does that, also runs the risk of getting a rep for that and that will only make it harder to get games in football or in other sports.
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I don't disagree with this....but it's also the reason it needs to be emphasized that this program has done such a thing.
 
I guarantee massie and steubenville had some sort of financial agreement in the contract to opt out on the return trip.
 
EastYoungstown said:
They have dipped out on return trips in home and homes. They did it to Massie. Massie came to Steubenville in 2015 and then they refused to make the return trip to Massie this year. They filled that date with some garbage team from PA while Massie was stuck finding a game.
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Wait, is that a regular practice? It's one thing to sign multi-game contracts where both teams know that Steubenville gets to host. But if they're pulling stunts like that, that's sleazy.
 
outtolunch said:
I guarantee massie and steubenville had some sort of financial agreement in the contract to opt out on the return trip.
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That's generally an implied assumption since it's standard practice. It doesn't change the concern that it is intentionally signed with the purpose of not honoring the away game.
 
Fish 82.... you have me confused with someone. Never did I once blame that child victim. What happened was reprehensible and I said so. And I thought those responsible should have been punished. They were punished and many people other the 2 juveniles paid a heavy price. Show one post where I said otherwise. You are the complete idiot. You all know what I say is true, that this story does not become the national news or receive nearly the attention it did if it happened elsewhere. Fish, make sure you know what your saying when you accuse someone of victim blaming. You wouldn't say it to my face I know that.
 
Cali_Eagle said:
Some years back, the late Fairwood King, (a Steubenville native and Big Red backer/poster who knew Reno personally) posted here that he asked Reno about the high number of home games and was told that Steubenville made a lot more money by playing at home to packed houses at Harding Stadium, and that even if he had to pay extra large guarantees, or pickup hotel/motel and some other travel costs for some opposition, the program still invariably came out way ahead financially.

Money always talks so I tend to believe they do this more for the substantial income rather than purely for competitive reasons. I'm sure the competition side is a sweet bonus, plus the fact that their fans must love having 7-8 home games a season to watch a winning team play generally quality opposition.

Steubenville is in a league (The very large W VA-Ohio OVAC) but the scheduling requirements aren't onerous, they only have to play a couple of league members a season.

Even if most teams quit their leagues to try and do this (most schools wouldn't dream of voluntarily leaving their leagues) most couldn't even hope to pull this off. You need to be a State Power type team with a rabid following to do this. You can count the teams around the State up pretty quickly that could do this. Warren Harding, Massillon both spring to mind. I'm sure there are others too, but they aren't close to being in the majority.
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That's only if you want to be the OVAC Champion. There's no requirement to be a member that you have to schedule league teams in football.

As mentioned about FWK, Steubenville has about 5,000 or so season tickets. That's $30,000 for one game at home. Figure out the costs of the stadium for the weekend, and cost of transportation for the team to get there, it's a no brainer. City schools from Pittsburgh or DC, or private schools from Buffalo, Baltimore, and DC all will jump on the type of guaranteed money that Big Red can throw their way to come down on a one-year deal.

The thing about it, is that those schools, aren't going to make ANYTHING on a home-and-home. Their home games may have a few hundreds in attendance. Pittsburgh City League teams might draw 200-300 for most weekends (I've counted at games I've attended), so they're very quick to travel if someone will pay them and cover their costs for the week.
 
Bennies'01 said:
Wait, is that a regular practice? It's one thing to sign multi-game contracts where both teams know that Steubenville gets to host. But if they're pulling stunts like that, that's sleazy.
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So we are supposed to consider what you say as gospel. For all you know or anyone else knows Massie decided they didn't want to take another whuppin especially at home and they opted out.
 
Crimson and Black said:
The rape story isn't even a story in so many places. If it happens (and it does everywhere in America) in a place of a mediocre football program it would have gotten little to no attention.
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I guess OHSAA forgot to highlight the critical "rape is only an important issue when it 'happens' to a famous football program" point from their post-season PSA they ran.

Worst post evar.
 
Crimson and Black said:
Fish 82.... you have me confused with someone. Never did I once blame that child victim. What happened was reprehensible and I said so. And I thought those responsible should have been punished. They were punished and many people other the 2 juveniles paid a heavy price. Show one post where I said otherwise. You are the complete idiot. You all know what I say is true, that this story does not become the national news or receive nearly the attention it did if it happened elsewhere. Fish, make sure you know what your saying when you accuse someone of victim blaming. You wouldn't say it to my face I know that.
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There's no confusing you with anyone. ;)

You did it several times on the Huddle, and were called out for it accordingly.

I doubt anyone who ever posted there is surprised that you don't have the sack to own it.
 
Cali_Eagle said:
If I was an AD in talks with Steubenville and wanted or needed a home and home, I could see trusting them once. If I got burned (as in the quoted post), and I was for some crazy reason even inclined to want to talk to them again after having been burned, I'd insist that my school got the first home game PLUS got made whole on the game they didn't play. IOW, 2 at my school's field, then we come play you. If not, well... there are 700 + football playing schools in Ohio plus more in whatever state(s) I am closest to. Time to talk with someone else. Compared to most States in the USA, Ohio is almost always reasonably close to another state(s) no matter where you are within Ohio.

Other schools can learn something from Clinton-Massie's experience and also insist on getting the first game. Any other school can only screw you once, after that, it's on you. Any other school that does that, also runs the risk of getting a rep for that and that will only make it harder to get games in football or in other sports.
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This.
 
STVM and Steubenville entered into a 3 year contract to play with Years 1 and 3 at Steubenville. I've heard rumors that Steubenville has backed out of this after Year 1. Can anyone verify this? Are both remaining years cancelled or does Steubenville expect the Irish to go on the road in Year 3?
 
Bennies'01 said:
What evidence? Are their home and road winning percentages roughly equal?
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Since 2001 they have played 41 regular season games away and are 34-7. They have also won 2 or 3 Neutral site games. All told since 2001 they have played 83 away games including playoffs. They are 64-19 in those games.
 
Arizona Wildcat, you missed my point by 10,000 miles. I wasn't trying to say that the crime wasn't not reported everywhere and by everyone. Quite the contrary, the story was almost as big as any other news story and might have garnered more attention than any one single incident/crime/event.

The point I was trying to make that you missed so badly was IF IT HAD OCCURRED IN MOST OTHER CITIES OR TOWNS, it would not have gotten the legs it did and been such a giant story. That type of crime has happened all over the county, pretty much identical circumstances but the only one that we heard about with significant news coverage was the one that happened in Steubenville. Think about all the times it has happened on college campus with athletes involved and all it gets is one article in the sports section of papers everywhere....then as far as the media is concerned it's old news and the story is dead. That my friend was the point I tried to make.

As for Fish82, again you are dead wrong. I never said those kids should not have been punished or go to jail. In fact I said too many times to count that they did deserve what they ultimately received. I had an issue with the Attorney General and the media dragging innocent people into it just to create a "better" story and put some shine on a political office and to appear on camera and TV as much as possible. Only an uncaring, unintelligent fool could find something to blame the victim with. I am neither.
 
Cali_Eagle said:
I'm guessing your team is Avon Lake and so the money of an extra large guarantee doesn't mean as much to you as getting your fans a home game in return for your road trip. A school like Avon Lake will always put more of a priority on having 5 home and 5 road than it will bringing in the extra cash because you don't need it.

What you aren't seeing is that plenty of districts DO need/want the extra guarantee money that Steubenville can and does pay to visiting programs. It wouldn't shock me to see the consolidated Parma High on a Steubenville schedule soon, even if they are to be a large D I program, because they DO need the money.
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I did grow up and go to school in Avon Lake. Graduated and then left for college never to return. Have lived in southern Ohio now for over 50 years and lived in a small farm town. Have talked to the local AD and he feels the home and home is the only way to go. Think about this, how little the A.D. at Avon Lake works they are in a ten team league and play all teams each football season, AD only has one game to schedule out side of the conference.
 
EastYoungstown said:
They have dipped out on return trips in home and homes. They did it to Massie. Massie came to Steubenville in 2015 and then they refused to make the return trip to Massie this year. They filled that date with some garbage team from PA while Massie was stuck finding a game.
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Wrong. The Massie game was only a 1 year deal to begin with. The Massie AD even stated so in their newspaper last year
 
Verification Scipio

Scipio said:
Evidence over the last 30 years says otherwise.

Although C&B can verify, I never lost to Big Red ;-)
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I can verify that my friend Scipio did indeed go undefeated against the Mighty Big Red with a glorious 3-0 record including a 33-0 shutout my senior year. Boy those Harding teams in the 70's were fabulous. From an outsider I was sorry to see the consolidation with WWR. One really nice thing to see is it looks like Harding is getting back to the promanance they experienced not too long ago.
 
Crimson and Black said:
I can verify that my friend Scipio did indeed go undefeated against the Mighty Big Red with a glorious 3-0 record including a 33-0 shutout my senior year. Boy those Harding teams in the 70's were fabulous. From an outsider I was sorry to see the consolidation with WWR. One really nice thing to see is it looks like Harding is getting back to the promanance they experienced not too long ago.
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Well if he was on the Harding teams of the '70s I already don't like him. LOL. Massillon didn't have much success against them although we did have one upset and played them really well at home one year when they were loaded with Ty Hicks and those guys.
 
Egret said:
Well if he was on the Harding teams of the '70s I already don't like him. LOL. Massillon didn't have much success against them although we did have one upset and played them really well at home one year when they were loaded with Ty Hicks and those guys.
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