State Championships by County

YTOWN

Well-known member
That’s great data YTown. I didn’t realize so few of the #1s ended winning the state championship. I thought it would be higher.
One would think so but it turns out one would be wrong. :)

I started following it because of what happened locally in 1971. Even though the playoffs didn't officially start until 1972 OHSAA actually used Jack Harbin's computer points system in the 71 season as sort of a rehearsal if you will getting ready for the initial playoff season in 72.

Warren Harding won the 1971 AP AAA Poll title but finished 2nd in R1 behind Parma in Harbin's rankings. The local papers here never published the Harbin point totals to my knowledge but they did list the Top 10 computer teams in all 12 regions. The paper I saw also listed Parma & Harding's schedule and results for the 71 season. Harding was 10-0, Parma 9-1, the loss to E. Cleveland Shaw. Parma's opponents posted a 43-51-5 record, but 3 of those were Shaw's wins so Parma's defeated opponents only won 40 games, lost 44 & tied 5.

Harding's opponents were 45-52-2. I believe that ties at that time were treated as wins for both teams. The article never talks about 3rd level points but the system did use them originally. Now I don't have the computer numbers to back this up but that pretty much had to be where Parma beat Harding in the Harbin rankings in R3 points. Just FYI in 71 Steubenville CC won the AA Poll and Marion Pleasant won the A Poll title. Both were 1st in their respective computer regions.

Anyway I started looking at the AP Poll winner vs the computer points winner right from the start just to see how they compared. Neither of them are exactly stellar but the AP winner is still much better than the top computer point team. I think there have been 7 seasons when none of the top computer point teams won a title and 30 times when only one of them won a title.

Also I only know 8 times when the AP Poll winner did not qualify for the playoffs and 6 of those were when only one team/region qualified, only twice since OHSAA went to 4 teams/region in 1985.

I probably should add the Poll winners that didn't qualify:

1973 AA winner - Washington Court House
1974 A winner - McDonald
1976 A winner - Woodsfield Monroe Central
1977 A winner - Sullivan Black River
1978 AA winner - Cincinnati Wyoming
1979 AA winner - St. Marys Memorial (Thank you Auglaize99)
1986 A - winner Delphos Jefferson
1993 D4 winner - Aurora

I think that's it.
 
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GoArrowsGo

Active member
Preble County has zero. In my lifetime though Eaton made a Region 12 final in 2010. Preble Shawnee made the playoffs for the first time in school history this year when everybody got in.

As for the other districts in the county I don’t think any of them ever sniffed any kind of success in the playoff era.

Twin Valley South
Tri County North
National Trail
 

BelowTheLine

Active member
It's always a treat when YTown brings the facts/numbers. Thank you, sir!
So I'd be curious to know how many of the AP #1 ranked teams that won the state title had previously won prior state titles.

For example, it's pretty easy to rank Kirtland or Marion Local #1 in the state simply based on their past history of winning state titles. It would;ve been a lot harder to rank New Bremen #1 because they've had no playoff success.

The reality of many high school sports polls is that many of the voters have never seen the team play and are voting on a combination of results and reputation. It's honesty hard to take these polls seriously. After all, it was just two or three years ago the AP poll had Hiland ranked #1 in girls' basketball in division IV even though they weren't even in division IV that year.

Massillon should be proud of their history and tradition. I like Massillon. I root for them. Those 24 polls titles mean something. However, New Bremen's one playoff title means more IMO.
 

YTOWN

Well-known member
So I'd be curious to know how many of the AP #1 ranked teams that won the state title had previously won prior state titles.

For example, it's pretty easy to rank Kirtland or Marion Local #1 in the state simply based on their past history of winning state titles. It would;ve been a lot harder to rank New Bremen #1 because they've had no playoff success.

The reality of many high school sports polls is that many of the voters have never seen the team play and are voting on a combination of results and reputation. It's honesty hard to take these polls seriously. After all, it was just two or three years ago the AP poll had Hiland ranked #1 in girls' basketball in division IV even though they weren't even in division IV that year.

Massillon should be proud of their history and tradition. I like Massillon. I root for them. Those 24 polls titles mean something. However, New Bremen's one playoff title means more IMO.

I never tried to quantify it but winning a prior title probably carries weight with the AP voters, especially if that team is a defending champion and undefeated. Then again when Cleveland St. Ignatius won the D1 AP Poll title in 1988 they had never even qualified for the playoffs. They only won 7 playoff titles in the next 8 seasons.
 

simkon

Well-known member
Warren Harding won the 1971 AP AAA Poll title but finished 2nd in R1 behind Parma in Harbin's rankings. The local papers here never published the Harbin point totals to my knowledge but they did list the Top 10 computer teams in all 12 regions. The paper I saw also listed Parma & Harding's schedule and results for the 71 season. Harding was 10-0, Parma 9-1, the loss to E. Cleveland Shaw. Parma's opponents posted a 43-51-5 record, but 3 of those were Shaw's wins so Parma's defeated opponents only won 40 games, lost 44 & tied 5.

Harding's opponents were 45-52-2. I believe that ties at that time were treated as wins for both teams. The article never talks about 3rd level points but the system did use them originally. Now I don't have the computer numbers to back this up but that pretty much had to be where Parma beat Harding in the Harbin rankings in R3 points. Just FYI in 71 Steubenville CC won the AA Poll and Marion Pleasant won the A Poll title. Both were 1st in their respective computer regions.
I am not sure if it is true anymore but they used to use L3 points as a tie-breaker if two teams had the exact same average, this was true as recently as 15 years ago, haven't seen it mentioned lately though. The regular use of the L3 points seemed to have been discontinued sometime around 77 or 78.
 

YTOWN

Well-known member
I am not sure if it is true anymore but they used to use L3 points as a tie-breaker if two teams had the exact same average, this was true as recently as 15 years ago, haven't seen it mentioned lately though. The regular use of the L3 points seemed to have been discontinued sometime around 77 or 78.
I believe they still use them as a tie-breaker.

OHSAA stopped using L3 to qualify prior to the 1974 season because of the little "glitch" that using them can cause that we have covered here before. They were only used in the 72 and 73 seasons as a qualifier except for tie-breaking purposes. If you take a look at the Harbin point values in 72 & 73 and then for 74 you will see the difference immediately.
 

ohiopup

Well-known member
One would think so but it turns out one would be wrong. :)

I started following it because of what happened locally in 1971. Even though the playoffs didn't officially start until 1972 OHSAA actually used Jack Harbin's computer points system in the 71 season as sort of a rehearsal if you will getting ready for the initial playoff season in 72.

Warren Harding won the 1971 AP AAA Poll title but finished 2nd in R1 behind Parma in Harbin's rankings. The local papers here never published the Harbin point totals to my knowledge but they did list the Top 10 computer teams in all 12 regions. The paper I saw also listed Parma & Harding's schedule and results for the 71 season. Harding was 10-0, Parma 9-1, the loss to E. Cleveland Shaw. Parma's opponents posted a 43-51-5 record, but 3 of those were Shaw's wins so Parma's defeated opponents only won 40 games, lost 44 & tied 5.

Harding's opponents were 45-52-2. I believe that ties at that time were treated as wins for both teams. The article never talks about 3rd level points but the system did use them originally. Now I don't have the computer numbers to back this up but that pretty much had to be where Parma beat Harding in the Harbin rankings in R3 points. Just FYI in 71 Steubenville CC won the AA Poll and Marion Pleasant won the A Poll title. Both were 1st in their respective computer regions.

...
FWIW:

Harbin's formula for the 1971 'test' year split the value for class AAA schools.
Schools that were larger were assigned a higher point value, which is why
Parma had a higher point value than Harding ( Parma had more larger schools
in it's schedule tree than Harding ).

After the final results of the A.P. and Harbin totals were reviewed; the OHSAA
had the Harbin calculations rerun assigning a single value for AAA schools
regardless of size. The results were never published that I could ever find, but
that was the format used when the system was implemented in 1972.

:>---

EGA
 

ohiopup

Well-known member
I would also like to add that the original test year for the Harbin rankings
was 1970. It failed miserably because the coaches or ADs were to report
game results to the OHSAA and many ( substantially MANY ) simply did
not do so. The OHSAA then secured an agreement with the sports media
to furnish game results for the 1971 test year.

:>---

EGA
 

YTOWN

Well-known member
FWIW:

Harbin's formula for the 1971 'test' year split the value for class AAA schools.
Schools that were larger were assigned a higher point value, which is why
Parma had a higher point value than Harding ( Parma had more larger schools
in it's schedule tree than Harding ).

After the final results of the A.P. and Harbin totals were reviewed; the OHSAA
had the Harbin calculations rerun assigning a single value for AAA schools
regardless of size. The results were never published that I could ever find, but
that was the format used when the system was implemented in 1972.

:>---

EGA
I have never heard that before and I have the article where they interviewed Jack Harbin about the results between Parma and Harding. He never mentions anything about different point values for AAA schools and of course that was never the case when the playoffs started in 72. I could never find point values for 1971 either so there was no way of comparing the L1s, L2s, etc. between the two schools. Not that it matters but I had always assumed the difference had to be on the L3 level because Harding's defeated opponents had a better record than Parma's and I believe they both played all AAA schools.

Thanks for the info.
 

Scipio

Well-known member
I have never heard that before and I have the article where they interviewed Jack Harbin about the results between Parma and Harding. He never mentions anything about different point values for AAA schools and of course that was never the case when the playoffs started in 72. I could never find point values for 1971 either so there was no way of comparing the L1s, L2s, etc. between the two schools. Not that it matters but I had always assumed the difference had to be on the L3 level because Harding's defeated opponents had a better record than Parma's and I believe they both played all AAA schools.

Thanks for the info.
Whether right or wrong, I am pretty sure Harding won it because they beat Massillon, McKinley, Warren Western Reserve, Niles and Big Red. That was a big deal in 1971.
 

YTOWN

Well-known member
Whether right or wrong, I am pretty sure Harding won it because they beat Massillon, McKinley, Warren Western Reserve, Niles and Big Red. That was a big deal in 1971.
I don't think there is any question about that. Harding won the AAC title and went undefeated. Justifiable or not winning the AAC always seemed to carry weight with the AP voters.
 

Maxie

Well-known member
I don't think there is any question about that. Harding won the AAC title and went undefeated. Justifiable or not winning the AAC always seemed to carry weight with the AP voters.
Warren Harding defeated Massillon Washington 8-7 at PBTS. (8th game). There were over 20,000 fans in attendance.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
I don't think there is any question about that. Harding won the AAC title and went undefeated. Justifiable or not winning the AAC always seemed to carry weight with the AP voters.
I've heard many stories about Elyria and the Buckeye taking issue.
 

Auglaize99

Active member
I probably should add the Poll winners that didn't qualify:

1973 AA winner - Washington Court House
1974 A winner - McDonald
1976 A winner - Woodsfield Monroe Central
1977 A winner - Sullivan Black River
1986 A - winner Delphos Jefferson
1993 D4 winner - Aurora

I think that's it.
Plus

1979 AA Winner - St. Marys Memorial
 

YTOWN

Well-known member
Plus

1979 AA Winner - St. Marys Memorial
Somehow I forgot about the 79 Riders and I most certainly should not have because I saw them play Brookfield in the AA playoffs at B-W the year before and was impressed with them. Especially Jeff Cisco and he was a junior so I know he was back. They gave Brookfield all they wanted that night. They played the Warriors much tougher than Hamilton Badin did the next week in the AA final. Good catch.

Talking about 1978 made me think that Cincinnati Wyoming won the AA Poll title in 78, they were the defending AA champs, and they did not qualify in 78 so that's another one I forgot about. I'm losing it.

I've heard many stories about Elyria and the Buckeye taking issue.
All I know about Elyria that year is they were undefeated and finished a distant 2nd to Harding in the final AAA AP Poll. If they were upset about that I imagine that they were really upset about finishing 6th in the Harbins in R1.
 
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algernonsidney

Active member
With third-level points, there is a problem that you could actually gain more points by losing. Let's consider this scenario. Ten teams play a round-robin schedule. They go into the final week with these records. The last games are A-J, B-I, C-H, D-G, and E-F.

A 8-0
B 7-1
C 6-2
D 5-3
E 4-4
F 4-4
G 3-5
H 2-6
I 1-7
J 0-8
A has eight wins on the first level, 32 wins on the second level, and 68 wins on the third level. If A beats J, they end up with nine wins on the first level and get no more wins on the second and third level. Team J ends up 0-9.

If J beats A, A still has eight wins on the first level and 32 wins on the second level. They end up with 64 MORE wins on the third level because they beat eight teams who beat J and J defeated a team with eight wins.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
All I know about Elyria that year is they were undefeated and finished a distant 2nd to Harding in the final AAA AP Poll. If they were upset about that I imagine that they were really upset about finishing 6th in the Harbins in R1.
From what I understood, and I'm just a messenger, Fremont Ross whooped Harding in their last scrimmage, and later, Elyria handed Ross their only loss. Ross had Rob Lytle and Bob Brudzinski, and Elyria had Ike Maxwell and Les Miles.
 
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YTOWN

Well-known member
With third-level points, there is a problem that you could actually gain more points by losing. Let's consider this scenario. Ten teams play a round-robin schedule. They go into the final week with these records. The last games are A-J, B-I, C-H, D-G, and E-F.

A 8-0
B 7-1
C 6-2
D 5-3
E 4-4
F 4-4
G 3-5
H 2-6
I 1-7
J 0-8
A has eight wins on the first level, 32 wins on the second level, and 68 wins on the third level. If A beats J, they end up with nine wins on the first level and get no more wins on the second and third level. Team J ends up 0-9.

If J beats A, A still has eight wins on the first level and 32 wins on the second level. They end up with 64 MORE wins on the third level because they beat eight teams who beat J and J defeated a team with eight wins.
That's the "glitch" I referred to above.
 

tom_hsfootball_fan

Well-known member
So here is the median income rank for these counties according the Cleveland.com. Not really sure there is a correlation,
Financial expansion and contraction have been shown to be huge influencers in this area. If you're living in the 88th of 88 counties in median income, what is it your high school attending son is doing on Friday and Saturday? He's likely working. Plus... the poorest schools pay the least for extracurriculars... that's coaches, etc. So, what talent do you capture? Some individual schools overcome it... take Glouster Trimble for example, whose program has become a contender. Most never get out of the quagmire once they're in it.
 

BelowTheLine

Active member
Financial expansion and contraction have been shown to be huge influencers in this area. If you're living in the 88th of 88 counties in median income, what is it your high school attending son is doing on Friday and Saturday? He's likely working. Plus... the poorest schools pay the least for extracurriculars... that's coaches, etc. So, what talent do you capture? Some individual schools overcome it... take Glouster Trimble for example, whose program has become a contender. Most never get out of the quagmire once they're in it.
The counties that ranked 2nd, 5th, 6th and 10th have not won state titles. The counties that are 80th and 81st have, I'm sure it's somewhat of a factor but there's plenty of evidence that high median income doesn't guarantee a title and low median income doesn't make it impossible
 
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