Senate: Tim Ryan vs J.D. Vance

Who wins in November?

  • Tim Ryan

    Votes: 19 21.8%
  • J.D. Vance

    Votes: 68 78.2%

  • Total voters
    87
Not really the documents do not say anything about Buttigieg’s time outside the wire.
His two commanding officers characterized his service as combat missions:

Though more of Buttigieg’s time in Afghanistan was spent working in a secured intelligence office as an officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve, his dozens of trips outside U.S./NATO headquarters in the fortified Green Zone make him a combat veteran in the eyes of Hollingsworth, Buttigieg’s commanding officer.

During these movements, Buttigieg, in body armor and an M4 rifle nearby, would typically drive a team of officials, navigating an armored SUV through Kabul’s chaotic streets.
Kabul’s streets possessed threats such as crowds that could turn aggressive toward a vehicle found to contain U.S. military or parked vehicles that could hide improvised explosive devices.
“Anytime somebody would go in a vehicle and drive, no matter how close it would be — even six city blocks away — over there, that’s a life-or-death situation,” said retired Col. Paul Karweik, who succeeded Hollingsworth as Buttigieg’s commanding officer.

Despite what his commanders said, He is careful not to call himself a combat veteran even as he notes the danger he faced.

Buttigieg addressed the subject with reporters during a recent bus tour in northern Iowa. “It kind of felt like combat when the rocket alarm went off,” he said. “But I don’t feel prepared to use that term for myself.”
 
Given that you have never been to war or even in the military it is amazing that you think you can know if he undersold or oversold. Lack of self awareness is a common trait among Dems, so at least you are in good company.
I can read what his commanding officers said and I can also read what he has said multiple times about it, himself. You can too if you so choose.
 
I can read what his commanding officers said and I can also read what he has said multiple times about it, himself. You can too if you so choose.
Again, you have never been there, so you can read all you want. I can read between the lines, you cannot. Why don't you just stop? Pete isn't some sort of hero. You have no idea the low bar that can be applied to service awards. What he got, really isn't anything special. And actually what he did NOT get awarded is more telling than what he got.
 
Again, you have never been there, so you can read all you want. I can read between the lines, you cannot. Why don't you just stop? Pete isn't some sort of hero. You have no idea the low bar that can be applied to service awards. What he got, really isn't anything special. And actually what he did NOT get awarded is more telling than what he got.
You can dispute his commanding officers if you like. I never called him a hero. In fact, he never called himself one. He was just a dude that volunteered and got deployed to Afghanistan.
 
You can dispute his commanding officers if you like. I never called him a hero. In fact, he never called himself one. He was just a dude that volunteered and got deployed to Afghanistan.
Good for him. He was a direct commision, which is a big time short cut. He spent 5 months in Afghanistan, that is short by most standards. However He likely was better at that job, than his last 2 jobs.
 
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His two commanding officers characterized his service as combat missions:

Though more of Buttigieg’s time in Afghanistan was spent working in a secured intelligence office as an officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve, his dozens of trips outside U.S./NATO headquarters in the fortified Green Zone make him a combat veteran in the eyes of Hollingsworth, Buttigieg’s commanding officer.

During these movements, Buttigieg, in body armor and an M4 rifle nearby, would typically drive a team of officials, navigating an armored SUV through Kabul’s chaotic streets.
Kabul’s streets possessed threats such as crowds that could turn aggressive toward a vehicle found to contain U.S. military or parked vehicles that could hide improvised explosive devices.
“Anytime somebody would go in a vehicle and drive, no matter how close it would be — even six city blocks away — over there, that’s a life-or-death situation,” said retired Col. Paul Karweik, who succeeded Hollingsworth as Buttigieg’s commanding officer.


Despite what his commanders said, He is careful not to call himself a combat veteran even as he notes the danger he faced.

Buttigieg addressed the subject with reporters during a recent bus tour in northern Iowa. “It kind of felt like combat when the rocket alarm went off,” he said. “But I don’t feel prepared to use that term for myself.”
So even Pete admits it....LOL, thanks for confirming.
 
I read 5 months, but even at 6, that is about half the norm.
Obviously, you like to dimmish what he did in every way you can.. Don't like how he enlisted. Don't like how much time he spent in Afghanistan. Don't like the jobs he did. Just be man enough to sheet on every other veteran that left his high paying job to voluntarily serve and go to that hell hole. As God King said, dumb suckers that do that should not be respected. They should be mocked. Go MAGA.
 
Obviously, you like to dimmish what he did in every way you can.. Don't like how he enlisted. Don't like how much time he spent in Afghanistan. Don't like the jobs he did. Just be man enough to sheet on every other veteran that left his high paying job to voluntarily serve and go to that hell hole. As God King said, dumb suckers that do that should not be respected. They should be mocked. Go MAGA.
I think you meant diminish, you are dimmish...Go Probese....
 
Obviously, you like to dimmish what he did in every way you can.. Don't like how he enlisted. Don't like how much time he spent in Afghanistan. Don't like the jobs he did. Just be man enough to sheet on every other veteran that left his high paying job to voluntarily serve and go to that hell hole. As God King said, dumb suckers that do that should not be respected. They should be mocked. Go MAGA.
You are wrong, as usual. Just adding perspective that you do not have. You want to gloss over anything that doesn't square with your very limited knowledge about the military.
 
You are wrong, as usual. Just adding perspective that you do not have. You want to gloss over anything that doesn't square with your very limited knowledge about the military.
Yup ... Your perspective is totally clear based on your thoughts of his military experince.
 
The biggest obstacle for Ryan is his record. He hasn't done anything of value with regard to his district. He has been a remarkable Dinkel berry to Pelosi and Shumer however.
 

Buttigieg’s War and ‘The Shortest Way Home’​

Arriving in Afghanistan, he thought of John Kerry. It’s a telling comparison, and an unflattering one.​

WSJ
By Greg Kelly and Katie Horgan
Jan. 6, 2020 7:01 pm ET

When Mayor Pete Buttigieg talks about his military service, his opponents fall silent, the media fall in love, and his political prospects soar. Veterans roll their eyes.

CNN’s Jake Tapper asked Mr. Buttigieg Sunday if President Trump “deserves some credit” for the strike that killed Iranian Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani. “No,” the candidate replied, “not until we know whether this was a good decision and how this decision was made.” He questioned whether “it was the right strategic move” and said his own judgment “is informed by the experience of having been on one of those planes headed into a war zone.”

But Mr. Buttigieg’s stint in the Navy isn’t as impressive as he makes it out to be. His 2019 memoir is called “Shortest Way Home,” an apt description of his military service. He entered the military through a little-used shortcut: direct commission in the reserves. The usual route to an officer’s commission includes four years at Annapolis or another military academy or months of intense training at Officer Candidate School. ROTC programs send prospective officers to far-flung summer training programs and require military drills during the academic year. Mr. Buttigieg skipped all that—no obstacle courses, no weapons training, no evaluation of his ability or willingness to lead. Paperwork, a health exam and a background check were all it took to make him a naval officer.

He writes that his reserve service “will always be one of the highlights of my life, but the price of admission was an ongoing flow of administrativia.” That’s not how it’s supposed to work. The paperwork isn’t the price of admission but the start of a long, grueling test.
Combat veterans have grumbled for decades about the direct-commission route. The politically connected and other luminaries who receive immediate commissions are disparaged as “pomeranian princes.” Former Trump chief of staff Reince Priebus became a Naval Reserve officer in 2018 at age 46. Hunter Biden, son of the former vice president, accepted a direct commission but was discharged after one month of service for failing a drug test.
Mr. Buttigieg was assigned to a comfortable corner of military life, the Naval Station in Great Lakes, Ill. Paperwork and light exercise were the order of the day. “Working eight-hour days,” he writes, was “a relaxing contrast from my day job, and spending time with sailors from all walks of civilian life, was a healthy antidote to the all absorbing work I had in South Bend.” He calls it “a forced, but welcome, change of pace from the constant activity of being mayor.”
During a November debate, Mr. Buttigieg proclaimed: “I have the experience of being commanded into a war zone by an American president.” The reality isn’t so grandiose. In 2013, he writes, he “made sure my chain of command knew that I would rather go sooner than later, and would rather go to Afghanistan than anywhere else.”
Arriving there, he “felt a sense of purpose, maybe even idealism, that can only be compared to the feeling of starting on a political campaign. I thought back to 2004 and John Kerry’s presidential run, and then remembered that it was during the campaign that I saw the iconic footage of his testimony as the spokesman for Vietnam Veterans against the War.”

The comparison is telling. Mr. Buttigieg has just started his time in a war he says he’s idealistic about, but he daydreams about John Kerry protesting Vietnam after he got back. Many veterans detest Mr. Kerry’s “iconic” 1971 testimony, in which he slandered American servicemen. But it did launch a decadeslong political career.

Mr. Buttigieg spent some five months in Afghanistan, where he writes that he remained less busy than he’d been at City Hall, with “more time for reflection and reading than I was used to back home.” He writes that he would take “a laptop and a cigar up to the roof at midnight to pick up a Wi-Fi signal and patch via Skype into a staff meeting at home.” The closest he came to combat was ferrying other staffers around in an SUV: In his campaign kickoff speech last April he referred to “119 trips I took outside the wire, driving or guarding a vehicle.” That’s a strange thing to count. Combat sorties in an F-18 are carefully logged. Driving a car isn’t.

After the welcome-home rally, glowing press, a few more years of light service, the mayor left the reserves. But his bragging rights were assured. Candidate Buttigieg takes every opportunity to lean in on those months in Afghanistan. Questions ranging from student debt to Colin Kaepernick to gun control prompt him to reference his military stint, sometimes indignantly.
“I don’t need lessons from you on courage,” he lectured former Rep. Beto O’Rourke in an October debate, “political or personal.” Two months later he told Sen. Amy Klobuchar, “Let me tell you about my relationship to the First Amendment. It is part of the Constitution that I raised my right hand and swore to defend with my life. That is my experience, and it may not be the same as yours, but it counts, Senator, it counts.”

Debate moderators and other journalists—hardly a veteran among them—eagerly sell Mr. Buttigieg’s narrative. Debate moderators often point out that he served in Afghanistan and, if Tulsi Gabbard isn’t there, is the only veteran on the stage. When Ms. Gabbard is present, the moderators seldom mention her military experience, which dwarfs Mr. Buttigieg’s.
In our experience, those who did the most in war talk about it the least. Serving in a support or noncombat role is honorable, but it shouldn’t be the basis of a presidential campaign.
 
Tell me have we not been over this time and time again? Find some new material and get back to me. Nothing you stated above would change my mind on voting for Vance. just like nothing we tell you about Biden would stop you from voting him back in as President if he should run. Tell me if you lived in Pa would you vote Fetterman? I would bet the ranch you would and I would not lose would I? By the way how can you bring yourself to vote for Ryan, he sounds like a Republican?
Hapless is as a dog chasing its own tail, and he believes that everyone should join him
 
DeSantis. JD was an administrative assistant. Ivy League Elites get the cushy jobs and the dumb voters who support them go to war.
Some with Ivy League educations also happen to be rusty butt abandoned redneck kids that get inspired and realize their full potential. Some enlist for an education. Some do both and really succeed. Maybe Vance will be the last one, if the Democrats win ?
 
He was a JAG officer, for one of the SEAL teams. Kind of makes sense, since he had a law degree. Belittling other's service, when you yourself did not serve is a pretty dumb thing to do. Leave the belittling to those of us who did serve, you have not earned that right.
I did not serve. Can I still make fun of ronnie mund’s free school scam if he reappears? I won’t do it to anybody else.
 

Buttigieg’s War and ‘The Shortest Way Home’​

Arriving in Afghanistan, he thought of John Kerry. It’s a telling comparison, and an unflattering one.​

WSJ
By Greg Kelly and Katie Horgan
Jan. 6, 2020 7:01 pm ET

When Mayor Pete Buttigieg talks about his military service, his opponents fall silent, the media fall in love, and his political prospects soar. Veterans roll their eyes.

CNN’s Jake Tapper asked Mr. Buttigieg Sunday if President Trump “deserves some credit” for the strike that killed Iranian Maj. Gen. Qasem Soleimani. “No,” the candidate replied, “not until we know whether this was a good decision and how this decision was made.” He questioned whether “it was the right strategic move” and said his own judgment “is informed by the experience of having been on one of those planes headed into a war zone.”

But Mr. Buttigieg’s stint in the Navy isn’t as impressive as he makes it out to be. His 2019 memoir is called “Shortest Way Home,” an apt description of his military service. He entered the military through a little-used shortcut: direct commission in the reserves. The usual route to an officer’s commission includes four years at Annapolis or another military academy or months of intense training at Officer Candidate School. ROTC programs send prospective officers to far-flung summer training programs and require military drills during the academic year. Mr. Buttigieg skipped all that—no obstacle courses, no weapons training, no evaluation of his ability or willingness to lead. Paperwork, a health exam and a background check were all it took to make him a naval officer.

He writes that his reserve service “will always be one of the highlights of my life, but the price of admission was an ongoing flow of administrativia.” That’s not how it’s supposed to work. The paperwork isn’t the price of admission but the start of a long, grueling test.
Combat veterans have grumbled for decades about the direct-commission route. The politically connected and other luminaries who receive immediate commissions are disparaged as “pomeranian princes.” Former Trump chief of staff Reince Priebus became a Naval Reserve officer in 2018 at age 46. Hunter Biden, son of the former vice president, accepted a direct commission but was discharged after one month of service for failing a drug test.
Mr. Buttigieg was assigned to a comfortable corner of military life, the Naval Station in Great Lakes, Ill. Paperwork and light exercise were the order of the day. “Working eight-hour days,” he writes, was “a relaxing contrast from my day job, and spending time with sailors from all walks of civilian life, was a healthy antidote to the all absorbing work I had in South Bend.” He calls it “a forced, but welcome, change of pace from the constant activity of being mayor.”
During a November debate, Mr. Buttigieg proclaimed: “I have the experience of being commanded into a war zone by an American president.” The reality isn’t so grandiose. In 2013, he writes, he “made sure my chain of command knew that I would rather go sooner than later, and would rather go to Afghanistan than anywhere else.”
Arriving there, he “felt a sense of purpose, maybe even idealism, that can only be compared to the feeling of starting on a political campaign. I thought back to 2004 and John Kerry’s presidential run, and then remembered that it was during the campaign that I saw the iconic footage of his testimony as the spokesman for Vietnam Veterans against the War.”

The comparison is telling. Mr. Buttigieg has just started his time in a war he says he’s idealistic about, but he daydreams about John Kerry protesting Vietnam after he got back. Many veterans detest Mr. Kerry’s “iconic” 1971 testimony, in which he slandered American servicemen. But it did launch a decades long political career.

Mr. Buttigieg spent some five months in Afghanistan, where he writes that he remained less busy than he’d been at City Hall, with “more time for reflection and reading than I was used to back home.” He writes that he would take “a laptop and a cigar up to the roof at midnight to pick up a Wi-Fi signal and patch via Skype into a staff meeting at home.” The closest he came to combat was ferrying other staffers around in an SUV: In his campaign kickoff speech last April he referred to “119 trips I took outside the wire, driving or guarding a vehicle.” That’s a strange thing to count. Combat sorties in an F-18 are carefully logged. Driving a car isn’t.

After the welcome-home rally, glowing press, a few more years of light service, the mayor left the reserves. But his bragging rights were assured. Candidate Buttigieg takes every opportunity to lean in on those months in Afghanistan. Questions ranging from student debt to Colin Kaepernick to gun control prompt him to reference his military stint, sometimes indignantly.
“I don’t need lessons from you on courage,” he lectured former Rep. Beto O’Rourke in an October debate, “political or personal.” Two momayornths later he told Sen. Amy Klobuchar, “Let me tell you about my relationship to the First Amendment. It is part of the Constitution that I raised my right hand and swore to defend with my life. That is my experience, and it may not be the same as yours, but it counts, Senator, it counts.”

Debate moderators and other journalists—hardly a veteran among them—eagerly sell Mr. Buttigieg’s narrative. Debate moderators often point out that he served in Afghanistan and, if Tulsi Gabbard isn’t there, is the only veteran on the stage. When Ms. Gabbard is present, the moderators seldom mention her military experience, which dwarfs Mr. Buttigieg’s.
In our experience, those who did the most in war talk about it the least. Serving in a support or noncombat role is honorable, but it shouldn’t be the basis of a presidential campaign.
Who they tryin' to kid? .......this toady little clown spent the majority of his service time down by the latrines asking "Hey Sailor, are ya lonely?"
 
Pete wasn't kicking down doors. He was an analyst looking at terror network finances.
Nobody said he was. Even him. As previously posted, he even said he would not call it combat even though his commanding officers did.
 
This really is not about being an officer or enlisted. This is about the MAGA double standard. Dem Ivy elites who brag about their service in cushy office jobs are ridiculed but MAGA Ivy elites who do the same are great Americans.
Vance wasn't Ivy league while in the Marines.
 
Obviously, you like to dimmish what he did in every way you can.. Don't like how he enlisted. Don't like how much time he spent in Afghanistan. Don't like the jobs he did. Just be man enough to sheet on every other veteran that left his high paying job to voluntarily serve and go to that hell hole. As God King said, dumb suckers that do that should not be respected. They should be mocked. Go MAGA.
Pete didn't enlist.
 
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