REGIONALS

Bulldog Don

New member
This is Don Alexander. Katie Clute looked great again today. Another win over Sarah Peer, who is the real deal. This rivalry has been going on for two years now and will continue on for at least another week. Katie and Sarah are two national caliber runners and we are all very lucky to be able to witness these duels. Good luck to both as we approach State and the post season. I, of course, am partial to Katie…but I very much appreciate the competitiveness of both. Go Bulldogs!
 

gatornation

Active member
I would assume we can conclude that all 4 Regionals had similar weather and course conditions. With that being said, how would we rank the 4 courses from fastest to slowest in regards to how they ran?
Tiffin
Pickerington
Troy
Boardman
Any smart people out there have figures to support any of this.
I know many years ago someone had a good calculation about them to the 10th of a second.
 

ENA2

Active member
This was from some time ago and comparing to national trail, however I think Obetz would be similar with weather and other factors being equal. Tiffin= about 10-12 seconds faster than the state meet. Troy= about EVEN with the state meet. Pickerington= about 20-24 seconds slower than the state meet (these kids should all go faster). Boardman= about 40-45 seconds slower. Note, this is for an 18+ minute runner (6:00 pace) which is only the top girls and team scorer for the guys. It will also be tough to duplicate the conditions at the regions on Saturday.
 

Supertramp

Active member
This was from some time ago and comparing to national trail, however I think Obetz would be similar with weather and other factors being equal. Tiffin= about 10-12 seconds faster than the state meet. Troy= about EVEN with the state meet. Pickerington= about 20-24 seconds slower than the state meet (these kids should all go faster). Boardman= about 40-45 seconds slower. Note, this is for an 18+ minute runner (6:00 pace) which is only the top girls and team scorer for the guys. It will also be tough to duplicate the conditions at the regions on Saturday.
There is absolutely no way Pickerington is slower than Troy. Last year Troy was more like 1 minute slower than State for the boys. This year much better weather, but still.
 

galesxc

Active member
Neglecting the mud baths last year, I think ENA2's memory is historically right on. But, Pick North seems to have consistently run much faster in 2022 compared to previous years. I'd like to believe Pickerington course is still a +2.3%... but at first blush, it appears to have run more like Tiffin yesterday. Maybe this just shows the impact the level of competition/motivation can have when comparing course results.

I know almost nothing about Troy... other than a couple college coaches telling me yesterday it runs about like Pickerington in good conditions.
 

galesxc

Active member
BTW, last year, our guys averaged 1:11.5 seconds slower at Pickerington in the mud compared to a week later in the state meet.
 

ENA2

Active member
My analysis was for about 3-4 years prior to Covid. Note, “some time ago” …. And using runners from each region, boys and girls and doing the average, so it’s something that anyone can do. Past results are on the ohsaa cross country site, so anyone can do it. I only did about a dozen runners from each region. And some regional courses may have changed…. I know boardman did, but does not seem any “faster”. I was just responding to the original post with accurate data that I had.
 
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mathking

Well-known member
It is pretty easy to compare courses if there are enough races involved. Comparing the regional meets to the state meet course can be done in a number of ways. The simplest is to just take the times of every athlete who runs on a regional course and the state meet course and compare them (throwing out extreme outliers). You can then get a percentage or a number of seconds. I prefer percentage but my stat training teaches me it is more proper to use a # of seconds for a normalized time, which I usually choose to be 18 minutes. Using this method, over the last decade, Tiffin is the fastest regional course, Troy is next, followed closely by Pickerington with Boardman last. With Tiffin being faster than either state meet course and the other three being slower. A better method is to exclude the top 2-3% and bottom 5% of athletes (because their performances are likely to be non-representative).

Even least year, Pickerington was still a little slower than Troy. In more normal conditions Pickerington is clearly slower than Troy. I have coached in the regional meet for both locations, and Troy is more heavily slowed when it is very muddy. I think this is because Pickerington is almost always at least soft, if not muddy, in the loop at the start of the race. The athletic field near Refugee Road just doesn't drain. That said, I don't think we will see the same kind of drop in times from Pickerington to the state meet this year. I have coached at Pick North for two meets every year since they started running meets there. This is absolutely the best conditions the course has been in. In particular that first loo[p was pretty dry and firm. Which no doubt played a roll in the speed of the races yesterday.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
All the above said, for the boys, what roughly is the difference between the 4 Regionals?

Looking at Boardman. 16:18 Pickerington 15:40, Troy 16:06, Tiffin 16:04
 

XCFan98

Member
What does that mean? Do you believe Pickerington to be that much faster than the other courses this year? Interesting. I know Boardman can be slower in past years, but that Pickerington call is interesting.
 
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