Recruiting in high school football

Pawpaw53

Active member
Its a tough subject for sure. My opinion is this is HS not college. Some schools need the transfers so they can be relevant year after year (there are very few publics that can do this, talent cycles just aren't always there). Then beat up on schools that the kids choose HS football for playing for their community and with their friends. On the other hand you have privates (Hoban) that quickly figured out the advantage given to them and it really puts publics that don't get these "transfers" behind the eight ball. Back in the late 80's there was a kid that played football for his local school friends (won a SC) then transferred to a neighboring school to wrestle (I believe they won a team SC), then transferred back to graduate with his friends.




Yea. How does a public school year end and year out do this. I mean something is up. Not saying there isn’t good coaching and programs that can’t develop players. But sometimes it seems awful suspicious when it’s every single year that many D 1 players on a public school team. Just my opinion.
 

cpagan42

New member
Heck, Cleveland Glenville had teams in the mid 2000s who were absolutely loaded with D1 guys but could never win it. Can't just throw athletes out there and expect to win without some coaching involved.
they got jobbed by a snow storm and the lack of a kicker.
 

VTJGball

Active member
You're an engineer that has been working on a project for 3 years and when it's getting ready for completion, the company brings in the lead engineer from the competition. He looks at your project and within 2 weeks, makes some changes and gets it completed. It's better than it ever could have been, and you know it too. It's just better. He gets the primary credit and the bonus.

What do you do? Cry "that's not right?" Want "restrictions" on his bonus? Or, do you understand that the company has an interest in having the best product? And, then work harder to make advances and make the next project even better. I hope you don't cry and then leave the company without a plan in place because "they don't appreciate me?" and end up with no income as your family struggles. All because you can't handle someone being better. The world owes you nothing.

If you have never learned to deal with adversity and disappointment - you'll never be able to handle adversity and disappointment.

Life is not fair. Once you understand that, life becomes easy
Life is not fair.
Another way to look at that is stay at your home school and make the best of it.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
I'm advocating that the rules should be slanted heavily toward parents and their student being able to choose to go to any school that will accept the student for any reason they choose, even if a big reason is (gasp!) sports. This to me is far more important than whether such freedom might reduce the chance that someone else might, might have a lesser chance of winning a f___ing trophy. If my son was hugely into music, and a nearby open enrollment or private school has an outstanding program in that, no one would care. It really isn't any different to those looking at the activities for the right reasons.
That is all fine and dandy, as long as that school takes everyone. My biggest problem is private schools taking public dollars and then picking and choosing who they accept. If they remain 100% private they can do what they want, more power to em. However, when the school is propped up by vouchers and they have an extraordinary amount of athletes something is amiss.
 

Termite2

Well-known member
............................... My biggest problem is private schools taking public dollars and then picking and choosing who they accept. .................................
Private schools do not take public dollars, they are given public dollars from the state. ;)
 

queencitybuckeye

Well-known member
That is all fine and dandy, as long as that school takes everyone. My biggest problem is private schools taking public dollars and then picking and choosing who they accept. If they remain 100% private they can do what they want, more power to em. However, when the school is propped up by vouchers and they have an extraordinary amount of athletes something is amiss.
If you replaced "athletes" with "musicians" or "theater kids" or "math wizes", do you feel the same?
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
In my recent experience it has more to do with where can their child stand out / promote their skill set and less to do with winning (although that doesn't hurt). Case study - Kelly Bryant (Clemson / Missouri). Played 3 season as QB in a wing T offense, won a couple state titles, transfers senior year to a nearby high school that runs a more pass happy offense. Was not about winning obviously was more about which offense will better show off what my kid can do.

The school I work at (don't coach football) has run a wing T the last 4 seasons, including this one, and it is difficult to convince parents of middle schoolers not to leave our geocode and enroll in a program that is more geared towards passing. The funny thing is is when they are in middle school they see a ton of success running the wing T at that level (middle school team has had back to back undefeated seasons) but then something gets in their head(s) after their 8th grade season that man I gotta get outta here.

I coach wrestling and have seen probably more transfers in that sport than any other. Most of the time it comes down to where can I wrestle at that will give me the best chance to win an individual title or be a part of winning a state duals title.
 

Spread All Day

Well-known member
As a fan of a school that has been victimized by Catholic programs, I can say this. It should absolutely be the choice of the kid and the kids parents where they want to go to school. The kids are leaving your school based off of athletics alone, then your athletics must really suffer
 

ideliver

Active member
We talking education or football? If so, take everyone, not just the fast and those who jump high.
Huh???? Youngstown city schools aren't evening opening this year. How's that even not being questioned??? Youngstown Ursuline and Mooney are in school 5 days a week.

And oh...how many kids are at these two schools get turned away with vouchers??? ZERO. How many Youngstown city girls are at these schools??? A lot! What percentage of inner city school kids attend these schools and letter in a sport? Not many.

Up in Warren....what percentage of the kids in the JFK K-6 building are Ed Choice?? More than 20%. You telling me they are recruiting 2nd grade girls to play football??

Take your racism somewhere else.

Poor kids deserve quality educational opportunities...just like rich kids...they shouldn't be stuck at the crappy school just because their parents can't afford to move
 

Cougarfan22

Well-known member
Hoban wins D1 state Golf Championship yesterday. St Ignatus and St Xavier 2nd/3rd. Hoban literally just completed a state of the art Golfing facility next to the state of the art weight room. The recruiting accusations will now commence for the Golf program.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Huh???? Youngstown city schools aren't evening opening this year. How's that even not being questioned??? Youngstown Ursuline and Mooney are in school 5 days a week.

And oh...how many kids are at these two schools get turned away with vouchers??? ZERO. How many Youngstown city girls are at these schools??? A lot! What percentage of inner city school kids attend these schools and letter in a sport? Not many.

Up in Warren....what percentage of the kids in the JFK K-6 building are Ed Choice?? More than 20%. You telling me they are recruiting 2nd grade girls to play football??

Take your racism somewhere else.

Poor kids deserve quality educational opportunities...just like rich kids...they shouldn't be stuck at the crappy school just because their parents can't afford to move
Go back and see who I am referring to and come back and talk to me. A private high school has 215 boys grades 10-12 and has 7 kids with D-I offers entering this season (with more DI kids on the team). Without CB that school would be DIV. Let that sink in. A DIV school with 215 boys and THAT much talent does not just happen. They are using vouchers as athletic scholarships and they most certainly turn kids away.

On top of that we are talking about two distinct problems here.

1). The already mentioned using vouchers as athletic scholarships.

2). The BS idea of "choice." Private schools are not held to the same standards as their public counterparts. Not in terms of testing, in terms of teacher training, in terms of ADA, etc. If they want public money to prop up their "private" school they need to abide by all of those things first, open up their books, and be held to the same scrutiny. Currently, many are simply gaming the system. Keep in mind, the public school HAS to take anyone that walks through that door.
 
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irish_buffalo

Well-known member
All the more reason that tax money for education should belong to the student, not school systems.
If you want, you can go and fight how schools in Ohio are funded. It has been done before and on four separate times the current method has been ruled unconstitutional. However, as long as they are funded by property tax it should illegal for MY property taxes to go anywhere outside of my district.

And again, I MIGHT be ok with it if everyone plays by the same rules but they do not (private/public).
 

Percidae

Member
If you replaced "athletes" with "musicians" or "theater kids" or "math wizes", do you feel the same?
This is a good question. Right off, I would say all of these things you list, except athletes, are much closer to the core mission of the church than sports programs. The fine arts and humanities are skill sets needed by the church. Athletics, not so much. And yet, you see some of these schools pile up lots of state athletic championships but can't even field a marching band. If you scan the list of top performing schools at state music competitions (strings, vocals, etc) you will notice the absence of these same schools. So would I feel diferently? I say it would at least be understandable since there would be a logical purpose for them wanting to develope and promote fine arts programs.
 

Raylan_Givens

Well-known member
Huh???? Youngstown city schools aren't evening opening this year. How's that even not being questioned??? Youngstown Ursuline and Mooney are in school 5 days a week.

Take your racism somewhere else.

Poor kids deserve quality educational opportunities...just like rich kids...they shouldn't be stuck at the crappy school just because their parents can't afford to move
Go back and see who I am referring to and come back and talk to me. A private high school has 215 boys grades 10-12 and has 7 kids with D-I offers entering this season (with more DI kids on the team). Without CB that school would be DIV. Let that sink in. A DIV school with 215 boys and THAT much talent does not just happen. They are using vouchers as athletic scholarships and they most certainly turn kids away.

On top of that we are talking about two distinct problems here.

1). The already mentioned using vouchers as athletic scholarships.

2). The BS idea of "choice." Private schools are not held to the same standards as their public counterparts. Not in terms of testing, in terms of teacher training, in terms of ADA, etc. If they want public money to prop up their "private" school they need to abide by all of those things first, open up their books, and be held to the same scrutiny. Currently, many are simply gaming the system. Keep in mind, the public school HAS to take anyone that walks through that door.
ideliver - you should tell him stories about those Mooney teams back in the early 2000s. They were D4 and had 10 dudes who went D1.

Irish_Buffalo - I'm sure all the #s you are using are accurate, but WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Honestly, if there was enough talent in the area, there would be enough kids to go around. If there area is bad, then the kids are going to end up at the school that give THEM the best opportunity. Believe it or not, the kids & their families are looking out for THEIR best interests, not how your local team does.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Sports are somewhat different in that they usually involve a competitive structured state-wide tournament. Nobody complains too much about transferring for chess math or choir etc, but I'd imagine if they involved lucrative and prestigious state-wide tournaments w/ high levels of interest and participation then we would see similar rules governing them. Not that I agree. I'm more in queencity's camp. I'm ok w/ some rules regarding certain formal recruiting practices but there should be ZERO penalty for parental choice or open enrollment.
 

queencitybuckeye

Well-known member
If you want, you can go and fight how schools in Ohio are funded. It has been done before and on four separate times the current method has been ruled unconstitutional. However, as long as they are funded by property tax it should illegal for MY property taxes to go anywhere outside of my district.

And again, I MIGHT be ok with it if everyone plays by the same rules but they do not (private/public).
Why is "playing by the same rules" so important to you (this is not a flippant question).
 

queencitybuckeye

Well-known member
Hoban wins D1 state Golf Championship yesterday. St Ignatus and St Xavier 2nd/3rd. Hoban literally just completed a state of the art Golfing facility next to the state of the art weight room. The recruiting accusations will now commence for the Golf program.
Awesome that they can provide such a great program.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Awesome that they can provide such a great program.
They or we? Just asking. I'm with you on free choice but I get a little sideways on public dollars aiding private ventures. Not specific to Hoban but in general. I am sure they get a ton of private funding for these projects (which is great) and have no idea what public tax dollars they pull in.
 

queencitybuckeye

Well-known member
They or we? Just asking. I'm with you on free choice but I get a little sideways on public dollars aiding private ventures. Not specific to Hoban but in general. I am sure they get a ton of private funding for these projects (which is great) and have no idea what public tax dollars they pull in.
If there's going to be a "we" paying for education, I'm more supportive of those who spend it in the least wasteful manner, and not particularly concerned about the whole "public vs. private" issue. I want the most bang for the buck, period.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
In or out?
The "IN" of note recently (2018-19 season) was a kid who wrestled at a school next town over who came to us because his sister was a senior (she wrestled for us as well). He had been a SQ as a 10th grader so he was a huge addition for us as we needed one last piece to our conference title puzzle. He filled that void. After she graduated he promptly went back to his old high school. There's a HUGE and LONG backstory to all this that I won't go in to but that would be the ONLY time anyone with a resume transferred IN to us.

I did get a kid 10 years ago who moved into our school from Hopewell HS in Pa. Dad had gotten a job down here the year before and then brought his wife and son down the next year. So the kid was going to be a one and done as he was a senior. The funny thing was back home in Pa he was a .500 wrestler. Down in here South Carolina he became a state qualifier with over 55 wins haha.

I've never had anyone who just straight up transferred OUT for wrestling specific reasons. If we do lose a kid its to family is moving (like moving states away not next school over haha).


Two years ago there was a kid at a school in our conference who was a multi state qualifier but never won the big one. His team was a bottom feeder but he himself was pretty good. His senior year he transferred to a local / state dynasty. He filled a need this team had (152 lber) and plus would now be on a team that would give him a chance to not just win and individual state title but also a team title. FWIW the school he transferred to was about 45 minutes to an hour away from his old school. Both were public schools.

Last year a kid at another school in our conference left his old school after placing at state as a 9th grader to go to school literally 15 minutes down the road at a wrestling program that is an annual state title contender. His old school hadn't even hired a coach yet, it was July and rather than wait and see his family sold their home and moved down the road so he could be zoned for the other school. He won state this past year at 113 lbs as a 10th grader.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
ideliver - you should tell him stories about those Mooney teams back in the early 2000s. They were D4 and had 10 dudes who went D1.

Irish_Buffalo - I'm sure all the #s you are using are accurate, but WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Honestly, if there was enough talent in the area, there would be enough kids to go around. If there area is bad, then the kids are going to end up at the school that give THEM the best opportunity. Believe it or not, the kids & their families are looking out for THEIR best interests, not how your local team does.
Never once did I say that I am against anyone bettering themselves.

I am against private schools taking public dollars, picking and choosing who they accept based on athletic ability, and not being held to the same standards as the scrutinized public school.
 

4GX

Well-known member
We talking education or football? If so, take everyone, not just the fast and those who jump high.
Most Catholic schools DO take just about everyone— there are very few that have an admission test standard that filter out lower achieving students— I don’t really get what you are saying about “take everyone‘— who, that is willing to pay (and even some that can’t), is being turned down, in your experience? In Cincinnati, Purcell Marian is actually making developmentally disabled students a focal area... DePaul Christo Rey focuses solely on poor/minority students from Cincinnati’s most impoverished areas— and all go for free— and Christo Rey HAS NO sports teams... where are you seeing kids who want to go to Catholic school turned down, if they are willing to pay the tuition?
 
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