Public vs Private Breakdown

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
Isn't that the way it works now though? I may not understand the CB completely. I thought that a parochial school could designate their area, and then anyone outside of it is counted with the multiplier.
No. That's not how it works. No one thought to ask the Catholic schools how they operate and take that into account. Each non-public high school is assigned to an attendance zone that corresponds to the closest public high school. A school can also notify OHSAA that it primarily serves kids from a different attendance zone.

Here's the official list:

Some attendance zones may have more than feeder school assigned to them. Kids who attended (doesn't matter where they live) non-public schools that are part of the same system as the high school that are located in the high school's attendance zone are Tier 0. Kids who attended non-public schools outside their attendance zone but still part of the same system as the high school are Tier 1. Everyone else is Tier 2. Here's a diagram:


You'll see a little note at the bottom of that: There is an exception for the schools within the Diocese of Columbus. This is new. I've never seen that before. I do see that Bob Goldring updated the document on 06/21/2019. But I don't know what it means or how it applies. What I do know is that the Diocese has its own attendance boundaries based on where kids live. My guess is that a successful case was made that we're not getting kids from all counties in the diocese with families being able to pick any high school they want. As long as Fairfield/Licking/Pickaway kids going to Hartley count as Tier 1 and kids who get approved "waivers" from principals to attend a high school outside their designated zone (and these exceptions are very rare) also count as Tier 1, that seems perfectly fair to me and a good adjustment to the system.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
You'll see a little note at the bottom of that: There is an exception for the schools within the Diocese of Columbus. This is new. I've never seen that before. I do see that Bob Goldring updated the document on 06/21/2019. But I don't know what it means or how it applies. What I do know is that the Diocese has its own attendance boundaries based on where kids live. My guess is that a successful case was made that we're not getting kids from all counties in the diocese with families being able to pick any high school they want. As long as Fairfield/Licking/Pickaway kids going to Hartley count as Tier 1 and kids who get approved "waivers" from principals to attend a high school outside their designated zone (and these exceptions are very rare) also count as Tier 1, that seems perfectly fair to me and a good adjustment to the system.
My assumption is correct.


Bylaw 2-2-5 - New Exception (Modification of the Competitive Balance Plan)

This modification adds an exception to Bylaw 2-2-5 for those non-public schools with a defined geographic boundary. Those non-public schools which assign students to a school based on the geographic location of the student’s parent’s residence will tier their students in a similar fashion to schools within a multiple-high school system and thus will not utilize the “feeder school” system that other non-public schools utilize. Students who should be assigned to a specific high school within this system but are provided a waiver to attend a different high school will be tiered a 1 or 2, accordingly. Schools within the Diocese of Columbus are currently the only ones that are afforded the opportunity to utilize this exception.

Passed 646-160
 

bass10

Well-known member
Don’t forget the kids who moved from Colorado to go to mckinley. But everyone is home grown in canton.
do you really think a kid would move from Colorado to the great city of Canton other than a job move?? Goodnight!
 
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bass10

Well-known member
Wait until you see the roster next year 🤐
Yeh that's something to be proud of, kids from other communities, not your own that win you HS football games. Yep that's what HS football is all about. Dad to mom as their kid is on the bench, "honey I don't know any of these kids, yeh but we are a great HS football team"!
 

bass10

Well-known member
Kids tend to not want to be murdered in their front yard.
Yeh thanks for saving him coach! Not sure whats sadder the deed that went down or the lunatics that find every and any way to justify the absurdity in it all. Then actually believe the nonsense they come up with.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
Does this mean Fairfield County students are tiered if they attend Hartley? (Not looking to passive-aggressively start something, just wasn’t quite sure how it worked with BH in particular.)
The letter of the law talks about "provided a waiver." Since out of county St Pius kids are not required to get a waiver, I don't know how it works. I know that Pickerington public junior high kids from Seton aren't required to get a waiver either, and I've never understood that. My personal opinion is that Fairfield and Licking St Pius kids ought to count as Tier 1, and Fairfield and Licking kids who didn't go to St Pius ought to count as Tier 2. Since Hartley gravitates towards Boy Scout-ishness, I'm guessing that's what they do. Unless Dan Garrick said we ain't doing that with our Licking County kids, lol. Another strange and interesting fact - my oldest toured Newark Catholic. Fisher, Hartley and NC principals all said that a waiver is not needed for a Fairfield County kid to go to NC even though that rule was created for Buckeye Lake and Thornville kids.
 

Irwin20

Well-known member
A note that I'm sure you know, but others may not: Some schools are parochial schools (have a relationship with the Catholic Church) like Roger Bacon and McAuley-Mercy. Other schools are private schools that happen to be Catholic in nature, like Ursuline Academy and St. Xavier.

Isn't that the way it works now though? I may not understand the CB completely. I thought that a parochial school could designate their area, and then anyone outside of it is counted with the multiplier.
I know I’m beating the dead horse but St X , Ursuline, Elder, MND are not affected by CB. So doesn’t matter where kids come from.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
The letter of the law talks about "provided a waiver." Since out of county St Pius kids are not required to get a waiver, I don't know how it works. I know that Pickerington public junior high kids from Seton aren't required to get a waiver either, and I've never understood that. My personal opinion is that Fairfield and Licking St Pius kids ought to count as Tier 1, and Fairfield and Licking kids who didn't go to St Pius ought to count as Tier 2. Since Hartley gravitates towards Boy Scout-ishness, I'm guessing that's what they do. Unless Dan Garrick said we ain't doing that with our Licking County kids, lol. Another strange and interesting fact - my oldest toured Newark Catholic. Fisher, Hartley and NC principals all said that a waiver is not needed for a Fairfield County kid to go to NC even though that rule was created for Buckeye Lake and Thornville kids.
NC is the option that makes the most sense for students who live in Buckeye Lake and Thornville, of course. It’s a good policy they don’t require a waiver for Fairfield County kids to attend NC, because the idea is if those few families couldn’t attend NC then they would either do St Charles or no Catholic at all. NC’s quarterback lives in the Liberty Union district, attended Lancaster SMS but my best guess is he wouldn’t attend FC or BH if they forced him to get a waiver signed by our folks to attend NC— the way I personally see it, and probably the way that the DoC sees it, a kid getting a Catholic education wherever they want is better than forcing them to do their “assigned” school or go public.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
the way I personally see it, and probably the way that the DoC sees it, a kid getting a Catholic education wherever they want is better than forcing them to do their “assigned” school or go public.
I spoke with former superintendent about this when doing our school search because we were getting conflicting info between St Pius folks, other parents, and the various people at high schools. She said that the official position of the Diocese was that if a rare occurence of a Catholic family that supported and attended their parish (and the priest would be asked) and who sent their kids to a feeder school for nine years said "I'm going to public if I can't send my kids to the school of my choice" that the Diocese would override the principal(s) and issue the waiver. And that the principals all know that. For the families that didn't meet that criteria, they would be told "this is our policy" if a family appealed the principals' decision. With additional exceptions like the "enrollment challenged" schools.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Yeh thanks for saving him coach! Not sure whats sadder the deed that went down or the lunatics that find every and any way to justify the absurdity in it all. Then actually believe the nonsense they come up with.
Sadder yet some dufus from Green not moved by the mom's concern over her son's physical, social and academic welfare, his turnaround, and current success at his dream college, and now NFL future. She doesn't regret it. Now go get a life.
 

bass10

Well-known member
Sadder yet some dufus from Green not moved by the mom's concern over her son's physical, social and academic welfare, his turnaround, and current success at his dream college, and now NFL future. She doesn't regret it. Now go get a life.
Yeh I think its great some coach cared a lot about winning HS games, errrr a kids well being and helped this poor lad go pro someday!
 

murphy13

Well-known member
Yeh I think its great some coach cared a lot about winning HS games, errrr a kids well being and helped this poor lad go pro someday!
Out of curiosity how many games did they player in question dress for the Tigers? Seems like a lot to go through for it to be strictly self serving. You are aware that all the Moore's had to do was get an apartment in Massillon for the year and the player in question could have dressed every game without repercussions. Your assertions do not seem well thought out at all.
 
I spoke with former superintendent about this when doing our school search because we were getting conflicting info between St Pius folks, other parents, and the various people at high schools. She said that the official position of the Diocese was that if a rare occurence of a Catholic family that supported and attended their parish (and the priest would be asked) and who sent their kids to a feeder school for nine years said "I'm going to public if I can't send my kids to the school of my choice" that the Diocese would override the principal(s) and issue the waiver. And that the principals all know that. For the families that didn't meet that criteria, they would be told "this is our policy" if a family appealed the principals' decision. With additional exceptions like the "enrollment challenged" schools.
I’m not sure what year it changed, but back in the 90’s the Cincinnati Archdiocese did have school borders. Not totally sure why it changed either, but it did!
 

aged jock

Well-known member
I’m not sure what year it changed, but back in the 90’s the Cincinnati Archdiocese did have school borders. Not totally sure why it changed either, but it did!
Because CJ, which is not a diocesan school, was getting kids from Alter and Carroll districts. Alter and Carroll asked either everybody has districts or nobody. The decision was nobody.
 

NEOFBREPORT

Active member
I understand the CB formation and purpose. I also do not discount that fact that parochial schools have to market and recruit in order to exist. These schools are available for those looking for something different than what is provided at their local schools. It may be religion, discipline, surroundings, College opportunities, and yes, Athletics. Because they attract from a wider geography the perception or even the "competitive" product can lead to an advantage. But will all things in life there should be limits.

If you review the competitive balance data, there is a glaring flaw affecting 4 schools. Out of the 714 schools associated with the OHSAA, 4 schools (less than 1%) based on enrollment and CB adjustments JUMP 2 divisions. As a result, these schools are at times playing schools that are 2x plus the size schools. This was very apparent at a recent playoff game attended. The sidelines, stands, bands, and all things related to the experience were noticeably out of balance.

It seems that as they continue to evolve and improve the competitive balance the OHSAA should look at this evidence and make a limit that schools should only by "penalized" a maximum of 1 divisional jump. This would only improve what is considered an attempt to level the playing field. These schools should consider this information in order to continue to perfect the competitive balance.

Based on each of the schools locations, they have to draw from a variety of grade schools and areas. Each has a deep rooted commitment to their communities and most are located.

The schools include:
Division II (based on actual enrollment would be DIV)
1) Toledo Central Catholic- 219 base enrollment, 414 adjusted
2) Cleveland Benedictine- 261 actual base enrollment, 410 adjusted
Division III (based on actual enrollment would be DV)
3) Bishop Fenwick- 205 actual base enrollment, 276 adjusted
Division V (based on actual enrollment would be DVII)
4) Lutheran East- 111 actual enrollment, 195 adjusted

4857
 

jam40jeff

Active member
I understand the CB formation and purpose. I also do not discount that fact that parochial schools have to market and recruit in order to exist. These schools are available for those looking for something different than what is provided at their local schools. It may be religion, discipline, surroundings, College opportunities, and yes, Athletics. Because they attract from a wider geography the perception or even the "competitive" product can lead to an advantage. But will all things in life there should be limits.

If you review the competitive balance data, there is a glaring flaw affecting 4 schools. Out of the 714 schools associated with the OHSAA, 4 schools (less than 1%) based on enrollment and CB adjustments JUMP 2 divisions. As a result, these schools are at times playing schools that are 2x plus the size schools. This was very apparent at a recent playoff game attended. The sidelines, stands, bands, and all things related to the experience were noticeably out of balance.

It seems that as they continue to evolve and improve the competitive balance the OHSAA should look at this evidence and make a limit that schools should only by "penalized" a maximum of 1 divisional jump. This would only improve what is considered an attempt to level the playing field. These schools should consider this information in order to continue to perfect the competitive balance.

Based on each of the schools locations, they have to draw from a variety of grade schools and areas. Each has a deep rooted commitment to their communities and most are located.

The schools include:
Division II (based on actual enrollment would be DIV)
1) Toledo Central Catholic- 219 base enrollment, 414 adjusted
2) Cleveland Benedictine- 261 actual base enrollment, 410 adjusted
Division III (based on actual enrollment would be DV)
3) Bishop Fenwick- 205 actual base enrollment, 276 adjusted
Division V (based on actual enrollment would be DVII)
4) Lutheran East- 111 actual enrollment, 195 adjusted

View attachment 4857
I assume you're talking about Benedictine and sorry but I'm not buying the sob story of "we only made it to the regional semifinals, obviously things are not fair!"
 

jam40jeff

Active member
But clearly those 55 were better than most schools that can field only 55 players, which is the point of CB. In a region of 26 teams, they were one of 4 left standing before they lost. Not every team can win the championship, but they were still competitive with the top tier of D2 teams.

Now if those 55 players had come from their feeder schools, they would have been D4. But they likely wouldn't have been nearly as good.
My previous reply in this thread about the subject was more insightful.
 
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