Pre-school, necessary or not?

[14Red]

Ok, Christmas is over, putting on my Grinch hat.

Read an article today calling for more states to come up with funding for pre-schools. So now, we (taxpayers) are going to foot some of the bill so people can put their kids into pre-school, forgoing paying for child care. At what point are we going to make a proclamation that when you have children, YOU need to take care of them, not society???
For the "poor" in America, we already give them housing and money (welfare). They get fans in the summer, heating bill assistance in the winter, food drives, coats for Christmas, toy drives, school supplies, free or reduced lunches, meals packed for weekends and holidays....where does it end??

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

If I had a kid around preschool age today, I would want them to go be around kids their age to develop basic social skills.

However, the "school" aspect of preschool, kindergarten and beyond is a clown show. Nothing being taught is relevant to the skills needed in the modern digital business world. Kids can learn more on the internet than they can from some preschool "teacher."

 

[TylerDurden]

Ok, Christmas is over, putting on my Grinch hat.

Read an article today calling for more states to come up with funding for pre-schools. So now, we (taxpayers) are going to foot some of the bill so people can put their kids into pre-school, forgoing paying for child care. At what point are we going to make a proclamation that when you have children, YOU need to take care of them, not society???

This has nothing to do with whether or not preschool is necessary.

For the "poor" in America, we already give them housing and money (welfare). They get fans in the summer, heating bill assistance in the winter, food drives, coats for Christmas, toy drives, school supplies, free or reduced lunches, meals packed for weekends and holidays....where does it end??

If the assistance is coming from things like food drives or toy drives, and involve private entities donating, why would you care?

 

[TylerDurden]

If I had a kid around preschool age today, I would want them to go be around kids their age to develop basic social skills.

However, the "school" aspect of preschool, kindergarten and beyond is a clown show. Nothing being taught is relevant to the skills needed in the modern digital business world. Kids can learn more on the internet than they can from some preschool "teacher."

Preschool isn't about getting kids ready for the "modern digital business world," it's laying the foundation for their educational development.

 

[Buck_98]

My first 2 kids were watched by my mother-in-law. She was great. Worked with the kids on spelling, math, piano, etc. When we moved away and we put them in pre-school. They picked up nothing but bad habits from the other kids. Plus, they brought home tons of illnesses. Thank goodness we moved back to Ohio. My 3rd and 4th went to grandma's.

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

Preschool isn't about getting kids ready for the "modern digital business world," it's laying the foundation for their educational development.

That comment wasn't specific to preschool. The entire "educational development" ideals in schools today is a joke.

Curriculum in 2nd grade is a joke.

6th grade "learning material" is a joke.

Whatever the "Language Arts" teachers are selling to high school sophomores is a joke.

...

A lot of teachers will tell you they are just teaching what the state mandates, but does your average teacher in Ohio even have the technology skills to teach a little kid how to code? Nope. Give a kid a computer and let them loose. They'll probably end up teaching the "teachers" how technology works before the end of the day.

 

[serpico]

That comment wasn't specific to preschool. The entire "educational development" ideals in schools today is a joke.

Curriculum in 2nd grade is a joke.

6th grade "learning material" is a joke.

Whatever the "Language Arts" teachers are selling to high school sophomores is a joke.

This should be moved to the 'post a joke' thread

 

[14Red]

Let's face it, most parents put kids into pre-school offered by local school systems because they don't want to pay a sitter. People send their kids to kindergarten too early because they don't want to pay a sitter. It hurts the kid because they are not ready, but no one cares about the kid being behind. Schools need the kids for funding so they aren't going to tell a parent they can't take their kid yet. Just a dog and pony show.

 

[14Red]

If the assistance is coming from things like food drives or toy drives, and involve private entities donating, why would you care?

I don't, and I don't recall mentioning what private entities do with handouts? That's up to them.

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

This should be moved to the 'post a joke' thread

You're happy with the American Education System? :Ohno:

 

[TylerDurden]

That comment wasn't specific to preschool. The entire "educational development" ideals in schools today is a joke.

Curriculum in 2nd grade is a joke.

6th grade "learning material" is a joke.

Whatever the "Language Arts" teachers are selling to high school sophomores is a joke.

...

A lot of teachers will tell you they are just teaching what the state mandates, but does your average teacher in Ohio even have the technology skills to teach a little kid how to code? Nope. Give a kid a computer and let them loose. They'll probably end up teaching the "teachers" how technology works before the end of the day.

I don't necessarily disagree regarding our school systems, but not everything revolves around technology.

 

[TylerDurden]

I don't, and I don't recall mentioning what private entities do with handouts? That's up to them.

You mentioned food drives and toy drives.

 

[TylerDurden]

Let's face it, most parents put kids into pre-school offered by local school systems because they don't want to pay a sitter. People send their kids to kindergarten too early because they don't want to pay a sitter. It hurts the kid because they are not ready, but no one cares about the kid being behind. Schools need the kids for funding so they aren't going to tell a parent they can't take their kid yet. Just a dog and pony show.

Sounds like you associate with a lot of crappy parents.

 

[SWMCinci]

At some point kids need to be allowed to be kids. Those 1st 5 years are important to develop physical and analytical skills just as a part of being a kid. We keep taking more and more of childhood away from kids and the people we are producing are a lot less ready for the real world than if we've have left them to their own devices.

 

[14Red]

Sounds like you associate with a lot of crappy parents.

Sadly TD, there are a lot of crappy parents out there. But I'm not being entirely fair, I'm just saying there are alot of people out there making educational decisions on their kids solely based on expenses.

 

[Buck_98]

At some point kids need to be allowed to be kids. Those 1st 5 years are important to develop physical and analytical skills just as a part of being a kid. We keep taking more and more of childhood away from kids and the people we are producing are a lot less ready for the real world than if we've have left them to their own devices.

My wife and I went to check out the local Goddard school. I walked in and knew we were in the wrong building. There were 3 yr olds in khakis and sweater vests. They were telling us how the kids were learning French, Japanese, and Spanish. These kids had all the tools to get into an Ivy League school, but I bet they crumpled into a little ball the first time their boss yelled at them as adults.

 

[Neopolitan]

Nothing being taught is relevant to the skills needed in the modern digital business world. Kids can learn more on the internet than they can from some preschool "teacher."

Why would pre-school teachers be responsible for preparing kids for the "modern digital business world?" :laugh:

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

Why would pre-school teachers be responsible for preparing kids for the "modern digital business world?" :laugh:

Education is a lifelong endeavour. Learning under the age of 5 is the basis for the rest of your life.

Trusting your little kids to some of the losers they allow to teach preschool today is a good way to make sure your kids are only capable of jobs that'll be automated by the time they reach adulthood.

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

At some point kids need to be allowed to be kids. Those 1st 5 years are important to develop physical and analytical skills just as a part of being a kid. We keep taking more and more of childhood away from kids and the people we are producing are a lot less ready for the real world than if we've have left them to their own devices.

Agree completely.

 

[Neopolitan]

Education is a lifelong endeavour. Learning under the age of 5 is the basis for the rest of your life.

And these 3 year olds should be getting prepared for "the modern digital business world" that they'll step into in 20 years? What would that entail exactly for a 3 year old?

Trusting your little kids to some of the losers they allow to teach preschool today

I can't say I've ever met a preschool teacher(other than my own.) You interact with a lot of preschool teachers? It seems like this topic has you riled up.

 

[Raider6309]

Ok, Christmas is over, putting on my Grinch hat.

Read an article today calling for more states to come up with funding for pre-schools. So now, we (taxpayers) are going to foot some of the bill so people can put their kids into pre-school, forgoing paying for child care. At what point are we going to make a proclamation that when you have children, YOU need to take care of them, not society???
For the "poor" in America, we already give them housing and money (welfare). They get fans in the summer, heating bill assistance in the winter, food drives, coats for Christmas, toy drives, school supplies, free or reduced lunches, meals packed for weekends and holidays....where does it end??

You need to turn off the Fox News

 

[TylerDurden]

I can't say I've ever met a preschool teacher(other than my own.) You interact with a lot of preschool teachers? It seems like this topic has you riled up.

That thought crossed my mind as well.
I guess my wife did a really good job picking our kids' preschool because I haven't experienced any of the issues that red, buck or obcf have with teachers, the school and parents.

 

[Rohbino]

A lot of teachers will tell you they are just teaching what the state mandates, but does your average teacher in Ohio even have the technology skills to teach a little kid how to code? Nope.

Yeah, like it's so important that the "average teacher" in Ohio, that teaches little kids, and I assume you're referring to those teaching preschool age kids since that is the topic of the thread, know how to teach little kids how to code.

It sounds as if you live in a poor school district, OBCF. It also seems as if you delight in bashing teachers. I've always lived in great school districts and have kids that attended public schools. None had problems getting into the colleges that they wanted to - a few Ivies and Emory in the mix. I even have a daughter that has a job in which coding is necessary and she didn't start learning how to code as a preschooler.

 

[king kong]

Education is a lifelong endeavour. Learning under the age of 5 is the basis for the rest of your life.

Trusting your little kids to some of the losers they allow to teach preschool today is a good way to make sure your kids are only capable of jobs that'll be automated by the time they reach adulthood.

Kids from kindergarten to 12th grade average about 15% of there year being in school, so if you came out as a loser or know those who have, I would say look closer at their Home lives and who they decided to be around when not in school as being a more likely culprit. There are bad teachers, but the majority are there to do their job just like every other profession!

Yes, I am a teacher, along with my wife, sister in law and my father before he passed away! We live in one of the poorest parts of the state, southeast Ohio, and we still do our best with what we have!

 

[eastisbest]

Ok, Christmas is over, putting on my Grinch hat.

Read an article today calling for more states to come up with funding for pre-schools. So now, we (taxpayers) are going to foot some of the bill so people can put their kids into pre-school, forgoing paying for child care. At what point are we going to make a proclamation that when you have children, YOU need to take care of them, not society???
For the "poor" in America, we already give them housing and money (welfare). They get fans in the summer, heating bill assistance in the winter, food drives, coats for Christmas, toy drives, school supplies, free or reduced lunches, meals packed for weekends and holidays....where does it end??

Well, I'd say, "no we don't." We have those things for "some" poor but if the goal is to encourage people to choose "working poor" over "generational welfare" AND we want those children to have adult role models at an early age, we can help those parents choose work.

Speaking from experience on the child end and seeing MANY in the neighborhood having to choose work over staying home on social welfare and raising the kids (yeah I know the argument, don't have the kids but they're here so let's move on), I think we prefer they work.

Also consider, a reason many (not all, maybe not most) ARE poor is because they're not a product of parenting that successfully moved the generation up, so they probably do not have those skills themselves. If society can help provide that through LEGITIMATE pre-school, it may be a smart investment.

We need to grow the middle class. This is stability. A little "socialism" at the developmental ages isn't the worse thing for even the dogmatic conservative to swallow, rife though it can be with abuse.

 

[Gh0st]

Pre-school is also about developing some social skills in the fact that you are interacting with 10-30 other children as well as adults that aren't your parents.

 

[gneiss rocks]

Kids from kindergarten to 12th grade average about 15% of there year being in school, so if you came out as a loser or know those who have, I would say look closer at their Home lives and who they decided to be around when not in school as being a more likely culprit. There are bad teachers, but the majority are there to do their job just like every other profession!

Yes, I am a teacher, along with my wife, sister in law and my father before he passed away! We live in one of the poorest parts of the state, southeast Ohio, and we still do our best with what we have!

Good point...we all know deep down it mostly comes down to the kids home environment, parents or lack of, discipline, work ethic, and love are many times more important than school or money. You could take a 12 year old dirt poor kid with little education who has good upbringing and does not even speak the language, they will often be above average by high school.

Also, I never had preschool...if that tells you anything.

 

[gneiss rocks]

Pre-school is also about developing some social skills in the fact that you are interacting with 10-30 other children as well as adults that aren't your parents.

Yeh, I have seen some smart well educated home schooled kids that almost to goofy to make it.

 

[OhioBobcatFan06]

None had problems getting into the colleges that they wanted to

This is the biggest problem with teachers today Preschool-12. They think a person's "education" is all building up to college. A bunch of "academics" who wouldn't know a practical skill or how to apply critical thinking/logical reasoning to a real world problem if it hit them in the face.

Anyone with a pulse can get into (and even graduate) college. What teachers should be trying to TEACH students are lifelong learning abilities that will increase their quality of life in the adult world. Critical thinking is more important than memorizing lines from some old British die who died a couple centuries ago.

 

[SWMCinci]

.......
Speaking from experience on the child end and seeing MANY in the neighborhood having to choose work over staying home on social welfare and raising the kids (yeah I know the argument, don't have the kids but they're here so let's move on), I think we prefer they work.

Also consider, a reason many (not all, maybe not most) ARE poor is because they're not a product of parenting that successfully moved the generation up, so they probably do not have those skills themselves. If society can help provide that through LEGITIMATE pre-school, it may be a smart investment.

We need to grow the middle class. This is stability. A little "socialism" at the developmental ages isn't the worse thing for even the dogmatic conservative to swallow, rife though it can be with abuse.

In 1900, most Americans were poor, not just "America poor", but poverty on a level that other countries had. There were no government programs to feed or house the poor, they lived as the could and when necessary supported other families through their church or community. The majority were under-educated, ill-fed, ill-clothed, and ill-housed. The majority were farmers, in large families of farmers, and most never travelled outside of a 50 mile circle of where they were born.

When they were forced to uproot because of famine or drought, they moved entire families so they could eat. My paternal grandmother's family moved from Alabama to Texas around 1900 with all of their possessions on a wagon pulled by a cow. My grandmother, who was 8, walked the trip. 10 years later they reversed the trip.

Those people somehow figured out how to live poor, but also to raise kids that moved into the middle class. My grandfather and grandmother never got much more than a 4th or 5th grade education. They traded their work ethic for wages and opportunities. By the 1930s they owned their own home (it was smaller than my garage) raised 5 kids in that house, their sons became fisherman, welders, and a college educated accountant. All of their children finished high school.

We don't necessarily need more government help, I think the federal government has proven itself incompetent of meeting the challenge over the last 50 years. I would abolish all federal assistance programs and allow the cities, states, and private charities to pick up the slack. We've created a couple of generations of slackers that can't figure it out that we need to re-acquaint with work and a desire to not be poor. I think if you dropped the assistance to that equal to (or a little less) than a minimum wage job, stopped increasing the incentive to have more children, and rewarded good behavior vs incentivizing bad behavior you'd have a much more effective approach.