Pitch Count Violations

thgame50

Member
Has anyone heard of anyone getting cited for violating this rule, what were the ramifications? I know what the rule states, but did OHSAA actually enforce the rule?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
If violated, the game is forfeited due to an ineligible player participating.

There's 2 ways the OHSAA is notified of a violation....

1) Information entered into the data collection system after every game shows a pitcher in excess of the stated limits
2) Opponent of the offending team reports the violation

Umpires are not involved in this process.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
As a father of a pitcher, this is something I kind of always had my eye on and honestly, I never saw anyone really come close. Usually, things get moving at the 100 pitch point and 120 is not even really approached. I watched a coach go out and intend to get a kid this past Saturday who was at 100 pitches but he was throwing a no hitter. Kid talked coach out of it, and 2 pitches later the game was over and the season opened with a no hitter. Summer ball was the same way. I think coaches are trying to respect the intent of the rule.
 
Guys, its not usually the 125 that gets ppl. Most coaches wont do that in an everyday situation.
Its the mandatory rest that is the issue. Problem is there is no data base that shows who pitched and when.
So unless your coach is calling coaches from previous games then you just dont know.
 

PBrownisman

New member
Coaches and Athletic Directors must have integrity and if they honestly report the numbers there should be no problems. If a mistake is made take your medicine and forfeit the game. Be aware, however, opposing teams with GameChanger are out there.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Where is it, and who enters the numbers?
After every game, each team enters their pitching data into the OHSAA's Data Collection System. As PBrownisman noted above, it's on the schools to provide honest and accurate information.

There's nothing to suggest to this point that teams have made a mockery of this system.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I think this is one of the silliest rules the OHSAA came up with. There may be 10% or less of coaches who are going to destroy a kids arm in order to win a game. MOST coaches are in this for the kids. Why have this whole convoluted bureaucratic system because a couple of coaches can't behave? Just handle the ones who don't understand and leave everyone else alone.
 

Wooball

New member
After every game, each team enters their pitching data into the OHSAA's Data Collection System. As PBrownisman noted above, it's on the schools to provide honest and accurate information.

There's nothing to suggest to this point that teams have made a mockery of this system.
Where is said "data collection system?"
I know it is in the written rule, but pretty sure there is no such database.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I think this is one of the silliest rules the OHSAA came up with. There may be 10% or less of coaches who are going to destroy a kids arm in order to win a game. MOST coaches are in this for the kids. Why have this whole convoluted bureaucratic system because a couple of coaches can't behave? Just handle the ones who don't understand and leave everyone else alone.
This wasn't something the OHSAA decided on a whim to come up with. It's been researched for years and finally in 2017 the NFHS mandated the state associations come up with a pitching restrictions based on pitches thrown.

If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to Dr. James Andrews speak on this matter, you'd understand that this was implemented not because of a "couple of coaches", but because this was/is a full blown epidemic of arm injuries due to overuse.
 

14Red

Well-known member
This wasn't something the OHSAA decided on a whim to come up with. It's been researched for years and finally in 2017 the NFHS mandated the state associations come up with a pitching restrictions based on pitches thrown.

If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to Dr. James Andrews speak on this matter, you'd understand that this was implemented not because of a "couple of coaches", but because this was/is a full blown epidemic of arm injuries due to overuse.
Far be it from me to disagree with a doctor, I'm an old timer and I am very familiar with Dr. Andrews. Arm injuries are more do to with the increase in speed and type of pitches than repetitions.
Does overuse happen, absolutely. Are there some rogue coaches who'll throw their #1 pitcher 4 days a week as many pitches as the kid can throw, absolutely. But it's an unbelievably small percentage and these pitching rules really harm the high school game. Look at the scores. Look at the rosters of high school baseball teams now. You have kids who have no business pitching, pitch just to get through games.

All I'm saying is this was done backwards. If you have a coach who is abusing players by overpitching them, THAT'S a school/ AD issue, don't get the state involved when it's not necessary. I'm about 100% sure if you polled coaches they HATE this rule, just because it's extra work. There is enough going on with just managing the team, then throw this in?

My feelings are kids, young adults do not throw enough these days, and it goes all the way up to the majors. You get ready to run a marathon by...running. Not by sitting. You get ready to pitch, by pitching. You build up so you can throw 100-120-140 pitches. We have a generation of major league players who can't throw 5 innings or 80 pitches anymore? And these are the best athletes with great training techniques?? Where have we gone wrong??
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
A few years ago, there was a round table discussion on the MLB channel that was discussing the epidemic of arm injuries in professional baseball. Tom House (the guy in the Million Dollar arm movie), several doctors, scouts and a moderator. Some astounding statistics were brought up with regards to serious arm injuries in professional baseball. It was/is costing major league baseball a fortune. One of the stats that caught my eye was that 40% of all D1 pitchers will have or already had Tommy John surgery. Speaking form my own personal experience, I have not met a former Minor league pitcher who does not have a zipper. My point is that it is very common. Some of the causes of the injuries proposed was too many pitches in one outing; meaning pitchers were throwing past the point where they were tired. Throwing too many breaking balls too early was another cause. I know one of the solutions was for MLB to step in an encourage amateur baseball to regulate pitch count and rest and also establish pitching distance for age groups. For example: 45 feet for 12 and younger, 48 for 13, 54 for 14 and 60'6" for 15 and older. (I am just giving examples, don't hold me to the exact numbers ). One doctor also proposed that in his opinion one of the biggest factors in arm injury was that too many young men throw too hard too early. He said that if you are throwing over 90 MPH consistently at age 16 or below, that you are asking for trouble because the elbow ligaments j cannot take the stress. On a related thought Dr. Kremchek believes that a pitcher should stop pitching for 3 months out of the year and engage in a period of active rest.
 
Last edited:

AllSports12

Moderator
Can you provide the link to the actual database they refer to in the rule card?
You say teams and only teams can access the database but yet I have a team and no access to it.
It's not a public database.

If you are a Head Coach, this question should be directed towards your Athletic Director
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Coached HS aged kids for ten years and did not see many issues.

The issues are a long term play. Most start with believe from these garbage travel ball that plagues our youth. 4-7 games in a short span, coaches who great them as the world series and think a kids scholly hinges in that pool play number one seed.

I would rather have the boy throw one CP, 80-90 pitches than in three games in two days and just at the limit to allow him to come back the same day. An these come from these teams it costs thousands of dollars to play on.

These tournaments are breeding grounds for the beginning of arm issues down the road and the coaches don't care because when these issues arise years down the road they are never around to see the damage.

Cangelosi black Sox coach, 12 year level, first game out, brutally cold mid 30 WC factor, threw a kid over 100 pitches in the first game. Unacceptable. Kid has had arm isues ever since..

These tournaments put the pitchers at risk as the coaches play the system.....

At the HS level.....I feel this protects the dumb coaches. We always took pride at working our pitching staff safely and felt it was one reason we have ad sustained success.

Did see a coach few weeks ago throw a kid 60 on Monday 50 on Tuesday, in scrimmages so some idiots are still out there.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
I personally feel that pitch count limits should increase throughout the season as kids arms get in shape. There isn't any reason kids should be throwing 100+ the first week of the season but also no reason to be concerned if a kid throws a ton in the State Title game. I should also add the caveat that kids probably shouldn't be throwing all the way to their limit every time out.

I think the biggest thing is we need to encourage good arm care and health.
 
.
Top