#PACtion™ 2024

Rich Kotite said:
If Broc Dial is walking through that door, he's hired. Prior head coaching experience does matter and should be embraced. How has hiring no-experience head coaches worked out for Tuslaw? Very mixed results. Poor results over the last 5-7 years.

The best coach in school history was a head coach at Canton Glenwood before Tuslaw.

Why would an experienced coach want the job? Most don't but why did Gary Barnett go to Northwestern, or Jim Harbaugh to Stanford (back when it was a dead end job), or Coach Prime go to Colorado (their program stunk)?

Some coaches love the challenge of fixing a train wreck.

You can't land a great coach without asking first. You've got to ask if you want the sale.

You might get laughed at, ignored, or insulted. Or you might get a YES.

That's part of sales. Tuslaw needs to sell this job to candidates.

Part of Tuslaw's issue is they just don't think big or out of the box. They just accept things as it is and drop a program like Dalton while salivating over The Bleu Cup.
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Yeah sure if Dial wants the job, you give it to him. I think it will be difficult finding a former head coach who is actually worth his weight who is willing to come in and take this program over. Not saying they shouldn't make calls to those people, but good luck. I don't want hire some retread former head coach just because they have prior experience as a head coach, they also need to know how to build a program in 2024. You (or maybe it is someone else on here) is always mentioning getting someone who will actually stick around at Tuslaw for awhile, but then are immediately dismissive of a Tuslaw alum with a solid resume just because he doesn't have head coaching experience.

Pretty sure none of Farrah, Kuhlins, or Held had prior head coaching experience and between them they combined for the most successful 10-15 year stretch in the program's history.

I agree that they need to think outside the box and sell the program to potential candidates. I'm just not willing to limit myself to people who have only been head coaches previously.
 
I think it will be difficult finding a former head coach who is actually worth his weight who is willing to come in and take this program over.
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Why? That's the question you really gotta ask. Is it the admin? Is it the parents? Is it the kids? Why?

I also wrote that if an assistant coach interviewed really well, aka like the second coming of Don Shula 1972, then hire them but I'd try to talk to experienced head coaches, especially if they apply.

What I see is a constant acceptance of lower standards.

Another question: why did Held leave the district to be Fairless AD? Why couldn't he have stuck around The Slaw to become the AD?

Could he not work with the admin? He could have been an assistant AD officially or unofficially until the full time job opened.
 
Rich Kotite said:
Why? That's the question you really gotta ask. Is it the admin? Is it the parents? Is it the kids? Why?

I also wrote that if an assistant coach interviewed really well, aka like the second coming of Don Shula 1972, then hire them but I'd try to talk to experienced head coaches, especially if they apply.

What I see is a constant acceptance of lower standards.

Another question: why did Held leave the district to be Fairless AD? Why couldn't he have stuck around The Slaw to become the AD?

Could he not work with the admin? He could have been an assistant AD officially or unofficially until the full time job opened.
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That would have been a reasonable question during the last two coaching searches. During this coaching search you are coming off a four year stretch where they have won a combined 8 games. They have won just one league game over those four years and have the smallest enrollment in the league. I think it will be a tougher sell to get a quality, experienced coach in 2024 than it was during the 2017 or 2019 searches independent of what is going on with the admin/parents/kids.
 
Stark Sports said:
That would have been a reasonable question during the last two coaching searches. During this coaching search you are coming off a four year stretch where they have won a combined 8 games. They have won just one league game over those four years and have the smallest enrollment in the league. I think it will be a tougher sell to get a quality, experienced coach in 2024 than it was during the 2017 or 2019 searches independent of what is going on with the admin/parents/kids.
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That's why the coaching search in 2019 was really, really bad in how the previous AD (and current baseball coach) handled things.

I believe it set the program back years. It was a lazy hire and 31 applicants at the time (2019) had zero chance for the job. Worse yet, the list of candidates was buried. For all we know there could have been great candidates.
 
Rich Kotite said:
Another question: why did Held leave the district to be Fairless AD? Why couldn't he have stuck around The Slaw to become the AD?
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I asked this same question several years ago when Tuslaw had a decent program and no one could answer. Not sure anyone on here will be able to, but from the outside it is kind of interesting transition he took.
 
Rich Kotite said:
Get 'em on the Blue Streak schedule pronto. Both Sebring and an IGA store could fill two open schedule dates for Lake. I hear the IGA in Minerva has tuffness.
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The Hartville IGA had tuffness...then they traded it into Pittsburgh type of toughness...I don't think Hartville has still recovered from losing its local option
 
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Rich Kotite said:
That's why the coaching search in 2019 was really, really bad in how the previous AD (and current baseball coach) handled things.

I believe it set the program back years. It was a lazy hire and 31 applicants at the time (2019) had zero chance for the job. Worse yet, the list of candidates was buried. For all we know there could have been great candidates.
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Agreed. That was after a season where Tuslaw had made the playoffs and was returning a decent amount of talent the following season. Would have been a semi-attractive job then. Now, not so much.
 
Raylan_Givens said:
I asked this same question several years ago when Tuslaw had a decent program and no one could answer. Not sure anyone on here will be able to, but from the outside it is kind of interesting transition he took.
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My speculation is that groundskeeper Willie wasn't ready to go at the time, and clearly is part of the old head crew so no one was going to force him out and the opportunity was there for Held to bail. Again, just my speculation. Not to add to our difficult questions to answer, but are the old heads that strong in the Tuslaw admin that they can protect a person for that long, or are we all (myself included) guilty of not going to enough meetings, filing complaints whatever it takes to get someone out? I'm not going to trounce on a man's grave so to speak with the football coach being gone, albeit about 2-3 seasons too long, but I'm making these comments related to the former AD, and anyone else that just coasts through with mediocracy at best. The reason I ask this, is I have not met one person that has a good thing to say about Willie, in fact it's always negative, so how does a person have that long of a tenure with that bad of confirmed bad reviews? How many of the rest of us can get bad reviews at our job or have something equivalent to a losing record or several losing records yet still keep your job let alone get it renewed on a contract basis? Makes me feel great about my tax dollars and my kids' group of talented teammates at least at football and baseball. Gonna have to do it on their own I guess........
 
Nate Held joined Fairless as AD in June 2019.

groundskeeper willy "retired" as Tuslaw AD in spring 2022.

That's roughly 3 years. Tuslaw couldn't have "groomed" Held for the job or asked groundskeeper willy to "retire" as AD a couple years earlier?

I'm not saying Held would have been a superstar AD but I'd take him hiring coaches over willy.
 
Rich Kotite said:
Nate Held joined Fairless as AD in June 2019.

groundskeeper willy "retired" as Tuslaw AD in spring 2022.

That's roughly 3 years. Tuslaw couldn't have "groomed" Held for the job or asked groundskeeper willy to "retire" as AD a couple years earlier?

I'm not saying Held would have been a superstar AD but I'd take him hiring coaches over willy.
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Couldn’t agree more
 
Time for an outsider to ask for inside information again. It is easy to understand that Tuslaw has not been strong (or shown tuffness) on the football field (the record is easy to look up). But I think it has been mentioned that Tuslaw has a strong Olympic sports program especially wrestling. Do I understand that correctly?
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
Hey did you see who liked the post you are responding too...it says Falcon7997 liked the statement...is this the elusive Fairless poster you have asked for...lol
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Yes, an elusive poster, but daily reader. Still a falcon fan as some of my kids were 3rd generation falcons. But I currently have none in the system so it wouldn’t be fair for me to post about them. My last 2 children are currently in other school districts for some of the exact reasons that are listed in this forum.
 
Mikefln said:
Time for an outsider to ask for inside information again. It is easy to understand that Tuslaw has not been strong (or shown tuffness) on the football field (the record is easy to look up). But I think it has been mentioned that Tuslaw has a strong Olympic sports program especially wrestling. Do I understand that correctly?
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If you just said “wrestling” think most would agree. Not sure anyone would call their track team (boys at least) “strong”
 
Raylan_Givens said:
If you just said “wrestling” think most would agree. Not sure anyone would call their track team (boys at least) “strong”
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Wrestling is what I was looking for. Are I'm a big football guy, but in 99% of schools the tuffest kids (p4p) can be found on the mats. I understand the lightweights but are the football team not encouraging any of the middleweight and heavyweight guys to go out for the football team?

If they are true blue-chip wrestlers they are probably not interested as they are wrestling year round. But the others who are just strong HS wrestlers, should be on the constantly engaged to go out for the team. Is this practice happening there?
 
Falcon7997 said:
Yes, an elusive poster, but daily reader. Still a falcon fan as some of my kids were 3rd generation falcons. But I currently have none in the system so it wouldn’t be fair for me to post about them. My last 2 children are currently in other school districts for some of the exact reasons that are listed in this forum.
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Nice to meet you.......I always wondered...Rich Kotite just doesn't post items without a purpose....so he was doing a bird call! There are very creative funny people in this PACtion group...it does make the daily reading interesting...I appreciate that they let me hangout and they do that without me having to buy beer...lol Yet if given the opportunity I will buy beers at any PACtion local dive and or mass quantities at Bellstores!
 
7Diamond said:
Fun times will abound tonight in Manchester land, as the old gym will be rockin' with the last regular season basketball game to be played in that old hole against Tuslaw. ALL of the celebrities will be there, including the 1974 state championship team (really, 50 years ago!?!) (RIP Big Mike also) and Coach Gene and all us other has-beens. There will be a tournament game there next week also.
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I saw that team play in 74....they played at Lake that year...Big Mike was the biggest human I had ever seen in person at that time. The game was scheduled because the Lake coach was Mike Malitich...he came from Manchester to coach hoops at Lake
 
Rich Kotite said:
If Broc Dial is walking through that door, he's hired. Prior head coaching experience does matter and should be embraced. How has hiring no-experience head coaches worked out for Tuslaw? Very mixed results. Poor results over the last 5-7 years.

The best coach in school history was a head coach at Canton Glenwood before Tuslaw.

Why would an experienced coach want the job? Most don't but why did Gary Barnett go to Northwestern, or Jim Harbaugh to Stanford (back when it was a dead end job), or Coach Prime go to Colorado (their program stunk)?

Some coaches love the challenge of fixing a train wreck.

You can't land a great coach without asking first. You've got to ask if you want the sale.

You might get laughed at, ignored, or insulted. Or you might get a YES.

That's part of sales. Tuslaw needs to sell this job to candidates.

Part of Tuslaw's issue is they just don't think big or out of the box. They just accept things as it is and drop a program like Dalton while salivating over The Bleu Cup.
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They have something to offer a head coach...the challenge to make them a winner...a coach will like that...and they aren't to the level of Minerva...I honestly don't know how they will turn that around
 
Rich Kotite said:
Nate Held joined Fairless as AD in June 2019.

groundskeeper willy "retired" as Tuslaw AD in spring 2022.

That's roughly 3 years. Tuslaw couldn't have "groomed" Held for the job or asked groundskeeper willy to "retire" as AD a couple years earlier?

I'm not saying Held would have been a superstar AD but I'd take him hiring coaches over willy.
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Couldn’t agree more
Mikefln said:
Wrestling is what I was looking for. Are I'm a big football guy, but in 99% of schools the tuffest kids (p4p) can be found on the mats. I understand the lightweights but are the football team not encouraging any of the middleweight and heavyweight guys to go out for the football team?

If they are true blue-chip wrestlers they are probably not interested as they are wrestling year round. But the others who are just strong HS wrestlers, should be on the constantly engaged to go out for the team. Is this practice happening there?
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Over the years, Tuslaw has had its moments with wrestling.... for D3. Had a handful of state champs over the years including Mr. Horvath who then ran the program along with some quality assistant coaches. Since that time, most those coaches have left for greener pastures, Mr. Horvath's kids all graduated, and it was time (his choice) to pass the torch to someone else. No disrespect to any past kids, but I personally feel even 5-10 years ago when they were sending 6-10 kids to Columbus, collectively they underachieved. Don't get me wrong, placing at the state tournament is a great accomplishment for any kid in any division, but based on what I saw over the years, they should & could have done more. Since that time, it's gone downhill with less qualifiers, far less placers and only a couple of kids recently. There is a decent core group of wresters that are contributors on the mat, as well as the football field. The benefits from wrestling clearly translate to the football field, mental toughness for starters, no harder practice or season IMO. Body control, overall toughness, the list goes on. That doesn't mean you have to wrestle to be a good football player, but it surely only helps.

As for who's doing what, there are a couple of kids wrestling that are mid to upper weights, but not many, should be more and there definitely is a case of some of the top wrestlers choosing NOT to play football because their path is wrestling. You have FS/GR season with kids trying to get to Fargo and growing during their "off-season" There will be more of this trend continuing I'm afraid just based on certain kids' paths and decisions, no one's fault, just is what it is.
 
Mikefln said:
Wrestling is what I was looking for. Are I'm a big football guy, but in 99% of schools the tuffest kids (p4p) can be found on the mats. I understand the lightweights but are the football team not encouraging any of the middleweight and heavyweight guys to go out for the football team?

If they are true blue-chip wrestlers they are probably not interested as they are wrestling year round. But the others who are just strong HS wrestlers, should be on the constantly engaged to go out for the team. Is this practice happening there?
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Agree with what you're saying - but doesn't usually translate. Not too far down the road is Waynedale - dominant wrestling program, football is abysmal.....could wrestlers help a football team, sure, some of them could, but it's not a major key to turning a program around
 
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CasualFan24 said:
Agree with what you're saying - but doesn't usually translate. Not too far down the road is Waynedale - dominant wrestling program, football is abysmal.....could wrestlers helps a football team, sure, some of them could, but it's not a major key to turning a program around
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No, but having athletes compete at high levels, can turn around programs. Athletes are developed by doing athletic things and that translates across sports. The important thing is keeping kids participating and developing throughout the year not just when its in season.
 
Hot_Takes said:
No, but having athletes compete at high levels, can turn around programs. Athletes are developed by doing athletic things and that translates across sports. The important thing is keeping kids participating and developing throughout the year not just when its in season.
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Taking a participant in the ultimate individual sport and saying that they can make a difference on that same level in the ultimate team sport just doesn't always translate. Again, yes, it can help - but there are more than just a few top notch wrestling programs at schools where football is not great. Once more - I agree and fully sport multi-sport athletes and it does HELP programs....was just providing a couple examples of where the wrestling argument doesn't always translate.
 
Having contributed to this debate, I'll take a stab at being Switzerland LOL. Being a wrestling dad/coach two kids in both sports as well as baseball I can have an unbiased opinion believe it or not and see both sides. To take what CasualFan is saying, if you took all the Waynedale wrestlers that don't play football (likely used to) put them back in pads, no way it doesn't help, but they aren't all of a sudden winning the WCAL and going 2-3 weeks deep into the playoffs. That being said, if you got kids, parents, coaches to buy in and see the value/crossover of multisport athletes (especially at small schools) you'd be on to something. It would take time, but it would have an impact. I heard a stat a while back that over 90% of OSU's scholarship football players were 3-sport athletes in H.S. Not sure the source of that stat, exactly when it was, but honestly much higher than I would have anticipated and in this day of specialization and kids feeling pressure to hit 8,000 baseballs in the winter and not wrestle or play basketball, or hell even swim, that is encouraging IMO.
 
Playoffs??? said:
Having contributed to this debate, I'll take a stab at being Switzerland LOL. Being a wrestling dad/coach two kids in both sports as well as baseball I can have an unbiased opinion believe it or not and see both sides. To take what CasualFan is saying, if you took all the Waynedale wrestlers that don't play football (likely used to) put them back in pads, no way it doesn't help, but they aren't all of a sudden winning the WCAL and going 2-3 weeks deep into the playoffs. That being said, if you got kids, parents, coaches to buy in and see the value/crossover of multisport athletes (especially at small schools) you'd be on to something. It would take time, but it would have an impact. I heard a stat a while back that over 90% of OSU's scholarship football players were 3-sport athletes in H.S. Not sure the source of that stat, exactly when it was, but honestly much higher than I would have anticipated and in this day of specialization and kids feeling pressure to hit 8,000 baseballs in the winter and not wrestle or play basketball, or hell even swim, that is encouraging IMO.
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Waynedale has been partially hurt by abysmal football coaching hires....and guess who their AD was?
 
Bluestreakoffice said:
They have something to offer a head coach...the challenge to make them a winner...a coach will like that...and they aren't to the level of Minerva...I honestly don't know how they will turn that around
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They have something to offer a head coach...the challenge to make them a winner...a coach will like that
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Finally someone sees what I'm saying other than @Smoove Mooves

they aren't to the level of Minerva...I honestly don't know how they will turn that around
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Minerva needs to pray for 8-man football at Leetonia and/or East Palestine so there's an opening in the Eastern Ohio Athletic Conference or the same scenario with TCC and/or Strasburg in the IVC.

Or maybe Minerva needs to take a football hiatus. The "we're building our program back" model seems to be working at the same speed as yours truly waiting for that cheap knockoff San Diego Padres Swingin' Friar tee shirt from Indonesia to arrive from AliBaba.

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Perhaps Minerva could offer up some Minerva Dairy butter spread on French bread on a fine charcuterie board and come to the table with a POD scheduling idea with some other schools in PACtion but that's too far out of the box of an idea.

In a world that can be hot like Bailey Quarters and Loni Anderson circa 1978 full of hot ideas, too many are comfortable reverting to the boring, stagnant, flabby, ugly and shrill Joy Behar option. So I wouldn't count on a POD idea even reaching a piece of paper just as I wouldn't count on Amy Schumer signing up for a hot yoga class and avoiding cheesecake for two minutes.
 
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