OHSAA Computer Point System Having A Successful Playoff

*67

Well-known member

raising4daughters

Active member
Since all 28 Regional champs were 6 seed or better, is that an argumnet to go to 8 teams per region?
Not really because the same data showed more 10s beating 7s and more 9s beating 8s. Harbins work really well at identifying the Top 4, very well at the Top 6, and poorly at the Top 8. Does that matter since no one 7-16 made it to the finals? Not sure it matters to anyone other than 9 and 10 seeds.
 

queencitybuckeye

Well-known member
Not really because the same data showed more 10s beating 7s and more 9s beating 8s. Harbins work really well at identifying the Top 4, very well at the Top 6, and poorly at the Top 8. Does that matter since no one 7-16 made it to the finals? Not sure it matters to anyone other than 9 and 10 seeds.
Every team that had even a remote chance at the state title was in the top 8.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
Every team that had even a remote chance at the state title was in the top 8.
sure, but how would you feel if you were a kid who played on a team that finished 10th in harbins but won a game or two, and you were told “well, it doesn’t matter if you deserved to get in our not because you’re not a title contender”

the goal should be to get the best teams into the playoffs. the playoffs should be a grind every week.
 

*67

Well-known member
sure, but how would you feel if you were a kid who played on a team that finished 10th in harbins but won a game or two, and you were told “well, it doesn’t matter if you deserved to get in our not because you’re not a title contender”

the goal should be to get the best teams into the playoffs. the playoffs should be a grind every week.
the goal should be to crown the best team as state champion. everything else is for kids to feel warm and fuzzy on the inside and make their parents feel like they accomplished something.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
the goal should be to crown the best team as state champion. everything else is for kids to feel warm and fuzzy on the inside and make their parents feel like they accomplished something.
that’s a little harsh. the reality is that almost every kid who plays 4 years of high school will not reach the state title game. that doesn’t mean they aren’t good. some places just has advantages that others don’t. there are communities that can hang their hat on being in the playoffs consistently, and there is nothing wrong with that.

i don’t like giving trophy’s out to everyone and never have. but i feel like when you earn something in life it can be celebrated. ex. going 9-1 and hosting a playoff game is a great accomplishment!
 

reganaustinjames

Well-known member
That appears to be true. Same could be said about the Top 4 per region. Frankly, if we're going to reduce, I'd rather drop back to 4. If I was king, I'd keep D2 - D7 at 16, but cut a week out of the regular season.
Do you want to turn us into Indiana? Because that's what they do. The system we had from 1999-2012, where it was 6 divisions, 8 per region was perfect. Any team that had a state title shot was in the top 8, and it didn't exclude anyone that legitimately did like the 4 per region system from 1985-1998 did at times (most notably, 1993 Aurora). And sure you had a few lower seeds that went far (mostly parochial schools with middling records, but tough competition), but the distribution of success from seeds 1 to 8 was what you'd statistically expect.
 

jeroe

Well-known member
I am partial to the 8 per region set up. If a team doesn’t make it, they either we’re not good enough or really need to evaluate the schedule. The entire seed-9 and 10 won quite their fare share of games is flawed as they won those games against 7 and 8 seeds. I am fine with it either way but 8 seeds was the best solution.
 

Almost Prideful

Well-known member
i wish we could’ve stuck with 12. that seemed like a good number and incentivized 4 teams with byes.
Yeah, and then you wouldn't have teams cancelling games and leaving an open spot on the schedule and using it as a Bye week. Alternatively, you might see less teams taking chances with their scheduling to get their team better because they can't afford to lose. Life is duality.
 

algernonsidney

Well-known member
Do you want to turn us into Indiana? Because that's what they do. The system we had from 1999-2012, where it was 6 divisions, 8 per region was perfect. Any team that had a state title shot was in the top 8, and it didn't exclude anyone that legitimately did like the 4 per region system from 1985-1998 did at times (most notably, 1993 Aurora). And sure you had a few lower seeds that went far (mostly parochial schools with middling records, but tough competition), but the distribution of success from seeds 1 to 8 was what you'd statistically expect.
The only flaw was the stupid regions. It was the regions that kept Gibsonburg and Northwood out of the playoffs in 2019, in spite of being undefeated.

I liked having 32 teams in the playoffs. It seemed just about right. Most undefeated teams and one-loss teams got in.
 

ELKSONE

#EPND
I'm not a fan of inviting the top 16 teams. Eight should be the cutoff. Playoffs are too long now. Perhaps the top 6 with two teams getting a bye.
 

simkon

Well-known member
Historically there have been some teams like SV-SM that either just missed the playoffs or were a low seed that could win it all conceivably. I think for 99% of the regions 8 teams is fine, but for D-III region 9 and the predecessor regions in D-II, having only 8 was not good enough because there would always be a powerhouse in the 7-10 seed range, not to mention a year or two ago when SV-SM was a 15 or 16 seed and probably would have won any other region in D-III or at least been able to beat every team but one in the other regions.
Region 9 has most years been the best region pound for pound taking into account the division. I don't know what you do for situations that arise like region 9, but for everyone else 8 teams is plenty and the right number.
 

algernonsidney

Well-known member
Historically there have been some teams like SV-SM that either just missed the playoffs or were a low seed that could win it all conceivably. I think for 99% of the regions 8 teams is fine, but for D-III region 9 and the predecessor regions in D-II, having only 8 was not good enough because there would always be a powerhouse in the 7-10 seed range, not to mention a year or two ago when SV-SM was a 15 or 16 seed and probably would have won any other region in D-III or at least been able to beat every team but one in the other regions.
Region 9 has most years been the best region pound for pound taking into account the division. I don't know what you do for situations that arise like region 9, but for everyone else 8 teams is plenty and the right number.

You are basically saying that the real solution is to get rid of these idiotic regions.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
interesting point.. what if you did it like other sports where teams got to pick their spot in the bracket? ex. the 1. seed is a powerhouse and 2-6 all go to the bottom bracket to avoid them. the higher seeds also get first dibs on byes but don’t necessarily have to take them.
Theoretically, the byes for the top seeds prevent blowouts. Letting teams avoid the top seed is what leads to blowouts in baseball and basketball.

I get tired of watching a top seeded team in a 12 team bracket play the #11 and #12 teams in the first two rounds. That is not what a playoff system is supposed to produce. If there are any byes, the top seeds must take them. If they don't like that, stick with 8 or 16 teams.

IMO, do NOT let the teams bracket themselves. It is a bad system that creates bad football games.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
Theoretically, the byes for the top seeds prevent blowouts. Letting teams avoid the top seed is what leads to blowouts in baseball and basketball.

I get tired of watching a top seeded team in a 12 team bracket play the #11 and #12 teams in the first two rounds. That is not what a playoff system is supposed to produce. If there are any byes, the top seeds must take them. If they don't like that, stick with 8 or 16 teams.

IMO, do NOT let the teams bracket themselves. It is a bad system that creates bad football games.
it would be an interesting test run and could allow some teams to avoid longer trips potentially. regardless, i wouldn’t see it working IMO. i do think something needs to be done to fix uneccesaeily long bus rides in the first and second rounds.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
it would be an interesting test run and could allow some teams to avoid longer trips potentially. regardless, i wouldn’t see it working IMO. i do think something needs to be done to fix uneccesaeily long bus rides in the first and second rounds.
The bottom seeds would still get long road trips. It happens every year in baseball and basketballl.

I've watched it in other sports and it is one of my biggest pet peeves. I hated watching StV in basketball play two straight games against the two worst teams in the first two rounds.
 
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