Ohio's guidelines are out for returning to baseball

thavoice

Well-known member
The mandatory face coverings is never going to happen. Its actually dangerous...
It is just something that they proposed to the state to they would allow it, and it's mean to give folks a warm and fuzzy but yeah I don't see it lasting very long
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
The mandatory face coverings is never going to happen. Its actually dangerous...
We've been talking about it all day. The consensus was that it will last one game and then be abandoned. The other opinion was that it wouldn't even make it to one game. No one thought it would be the standard all Summer long.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
Here's the problem though...there will most certainly be people that show up and report every infraction they can. With photo evidence. If I'm an ump, am I willing to face the backlash of possible legal action and the social media fallout of being the guy caught not wearing one in a photo? League's have no option but to do everything they can to abide by the current regulations. They might not agree but the recourse of not following means they'll be shut down.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Who is the idiot who suggested that the "Best Recommended Practice" is to have the plate umpire to allow " adequate distance" behind the catcher and to require face coverings at all times?

First, it's a "feel good" recommendation. The distance is not defined for a reason. It has no basis in fact, no basis in knowledge of what umpires do, and no basis in safety for the umpires.

As far as face coverings.... field of vision is impacted. Those things can shift on you. We aren't trained to deal with a mask under a mask.
Umpires that agree to these conditions are placing themselves in danger. Anyone that agrees to work under these conditions is foolish.

Players are not being required to wear facial coverings when they are participating (for good reason). Those same reasons should apply to the umpires.
 
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HSFB Fan

Well-known member
Dangerous?
The verbiage in the guidelines requires mask to be worn by those on the bench, coaches, umpires.
Athletes need to breath to be at peek performance, Umpires behind the plate being crouched down already restricts breathing, have additional equipment and needing to run to be in a position to see plays (at the higher levels) unless games go from a 2 umpire crew to 4 and that is not going to happen, then you throw in face coverings its a heart attack waiting to happen as what has happened with some 14 year old's in gym class last month..
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I think you guys would complain about anything.
Do you understand the physics involved in taking a shot straight to the mask as a plate umpire?

Just to start.....those masks are not designed to be worn over something that moves like facial coverings do.
 
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GCPRO

Well-known member
I was curious if catchers/umpires could not come up with a small plastic shield that would be fixated/part of the mask itself, much like what hockey players wear. I was thinking about this with regard to football and lacrosse as well. Just a thin plexiglass covering inside of the metal/hard plastic frame of the mask. Could that not work? Just a thought. They already make the sun shades for catchers mask. This would be the same idea but over the entire mask or just the mouth/nose area.
I agree wearing any type of mouth covering mask under your catcher type mask would prove to be very irritable.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I was curious if catchers/umpires could not come up with a small plastic shield that would be fixated/part of the mask itself, much like what hockey players wear. I was thinking about this with regard to football and lacrosse as well. Just a thin plexiglass covering inside of the metal/hard plastic frame of the mask. Could that not work? Just a thought. They already make the sun shades for catchers mask. This would be the same idea but over the entire mask or just the mouth/nose area.
I agree wearing any type of mouth covering mask under your catcher type mask would prove to be very irritable.
There's a reason why we don't allow players to participate with equipment either worn contrary to the original design or altered in any way, shape, or form.

If as an umpire we allow a player to participate with equipment like that and the player suffers an injury related to that piece of equipment, that umpire can kiss their financial well being goodbye.

It's just not safe and certainly not worth the risk to the umpires and players.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
Do you understand the physics involved in taking a shot straight to the mask as a plate umpire?

Just to start.....those masks are not designed to be worn over something that moves. (shifts)
Mmmm maybe, but I also think you might be exaggerating something because you just don't want to do it.

People at my job complained about having to wear masks at all times. It's too hot, they will get in the way, they are uncomfortable, are just a few of the complaints. That lasted less than a week before everybody just got used to it and it became part of the job. Now it's barely noticed or even talked about.

My point is everyone complains when they have to do something new that goes against what they always have done. Especially when it makes them uncomfortable. The usual initial response is to simply complain, and that gets followed by reasons why it can't be done. Some reasons are legit but exaggerated, and some aren't legit at all.

Like I said, maybe your reason is legit. I'd lean more on the legit but exaggerated side myself though. I personally think the players should wear them even while playing. Gaters are the best option, since they go around your neck so they will never fall off. Plus they are made to be soaked in water to be used as a cooling down device. The response that players won't be able to breath and perform, again, a legit but exaggerated excuse. They would be just fine.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
I was curious if catchers/umpires could not come up with a small plastic shield that would be fixated/part of the mask itself, much like what hockey players wear. I was thinking about this with regard to football and lacrosse as well. Just a thin plexiglass covering inside of the metal/hard plastic frame of the mask. Could that not work? Just a thought. They already make the sun shades for catchers mask. This would be the same idea but over the entire mask or just the mouth/nose area.
I agree wearing any type of mouth covering mask under your catcher type mask would prove to be very irritable.
Now we are talking about constructive problem solving, instead of just dismissing out of hand and saying just keep things the old way. I like this idea. It's a start to an eventual solution.
 

TheTaxMan

Member
fridayfootball......"50% rule is waived. High school coaches can coach Hs teams all summer."
"This year it's unlimited days HS coaches can work with there guys"

Not picking at you, BUT.....can you cite any official sources or tweets or press releases for these statements? I've seen the specific release that said school coaches non-contact period is over come May 26, but I don't believe there was anything in there about the 50% rule (which doesn't kick in until July 31 anyway), and there was no statement about unlimited days and "no 10 day rule". Again, I'm hoping I missed those statements, but according to my AD, those items HAVE NOT been addressed yet.

Just as, other than an offhanded remark by Lt. Governor, there is nothing that repealed the ODH decision that schools, including outdoor areas, are off limits, as are stadiums and playgrounds.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Mmmm maybe, but I also think you might be exaggerating something because you just don't want to do it.
There's only two people on this planet that can read my mind..... They both carry my last name. (wife and mother).

People at my job complained about having to wear masks at all times. It's too hot, they will get in the way, they are uncomfortable, are just a few of the complaints. That lasted less than a week before everybody just got used to it and it became part of the job. Now it's barely noticed or even talked about.

My point is everyone complains when they have to do something new that goes against what they always have done. Especially when it makes them uncomfortable. The usual initial response is to simply complain, and that gets followed by reasons why it can't be done. Some reasons are legit but exaggerated, and some aren't legit at all.
I asked you if you understood the physics involved in taking a shot to the mask as plate umpire. You didn't answer me, instead, you made some assumptions and accused me of exaggerating the circumstances.

Not sure how one can claim that there is exaggerating going on when they've never experienced a ball hitting them square in the face at 85mph or more. (hell, a buddy of mine got knocked cold and had his career ended in a 12 year old game for a shot to the mask)

Not once did I mention comfort, temperature, or reluctance to comply because it's "new".

When I buy a mask, there is testing, testing, and more testing done on that mask to simulate actions that can occur when a ball or bat (yest it happens) hits that mask. Anytime something is altered that affects the way the mask is worn, it changes the dynamics of what happens when a ball hits it.

Until that manufacturer says "we tested this with a facial covering and it meets the industry standards" then I'm not wearing it. Men and women that do are taking a greater chance than we already take out there.

Like I said, just one component to the matter....
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
Now we are talking about constructive problem solving, instead of just dismissing out of hand and saying just keep things the old way. I like this idea. It's a start to an eventual solution.
If a player came out with a shield like that on his mask, it would have to carry the NOCSAE (National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment) seal on it. That seal is mandated by rule for protective equipment. Equipment that does not carry that seal or is altered from the original design is illegal.

If any umpire knowingly allows such equipment to be used in a game, he is not only subjecting the player (the coach has a role in this as well) to injury, but placing themselves directly in a negligence lawsuit should something happen to that player.

It's not dismissing the matter out of hand.... there is actually some thought put into this.
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
I guess I was suggesting that it could/would be manufactured to work and fit properly, ensuring all safety. The sun visor that a catcher wears in his mask is installed by the catcher themselves. I have umpired and coached the sport so I understand the liabilities involved. Also the mask could be vented above the mouth/nose area to prevent fogging up. I'm sure some baseball supplier has to already be on this idea.
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
As for meeting the NFHS standards, my son caught four years of HS ball and four years of college ball without ever wearing a cup. While incredibly stupid on his behalf I recall umpiring crews asking each coach during the pregame meeting at home plate if their players were properly equipped. I don't recall him ever being down and out so to speak, LOL. Sorry to change the topic.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
There's only two people on this planet that can read my mind..... They both carry my last name. (wife and mother).



I asked you if you understood the physics involved in taking a shot to the mask as plate umpire. You didn't answer me, instead, you made some assumptions and accused me of exaggerating the circumstances.

Not sure how one can claim that there is exaggerating going on when they've never experienced a ball hitting them square in the face at 85mph or more. (hell, a buddy of mine got knocked cold and had his career ended in a 12 year old game for a shot to the mask)

Not once did I mention comfort, temperature, or reluctance to comply because it's "new".

When I buy a mask, there is testing, testing, and more testing done on that mask to simulate actions that can occur when a ball or bat (yest it happens) hits that mask. Anytime something is altered that affects the way the mask is worn, it changes the dynamics of what happens when a ball hits it.

Until that manufacturer says "we tested this with a facial covering and it meets the industry standards" then I'm not wearing it. Men and women that do are taking a greater chance than we already take out there.

Like I said, just one component to the matter....
I said "think", I never claimed to know exactly what you're thinking. I am free to make my assumotuons based on the information you give me partnered with my own knowledge and experience. That is part of critical thinking. Just as you are free to make your assumptions about me based on information I've given you partnered with your own knowledge and experience. Which you have done. Doesn't mean either of us is exactly right, but it can be part of a healthy conversation, or debate if you will, IF they don't assume they must be right and the other person must be wrong.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
If a player came out with a shield like that on his mask, it would have to carry the NOCSAE (National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment) seal on it. That seal is mandated by rule for protective equipment. Equipment that does not carry that seal or is altered from the original design is illegal.

If any umpire knowingly allows such equipment to be used in a game, he is not only subjecting the player (the coach has a role in this as well) to injury, but placing themselves directly in a negligence lawsuit should something happen to that player.

It's not dismissing the matter out of hand.... there is actually some thought put into this.
And I will answer your question, because I've noticed if you don't get an answer to your question in a person's response you tend to get upset. At the same time, ironically, you tend to get happy with that as well. I think it's because you see it as if they didn't directly answer you, you must have gotten them. Gotcha!

I do understand the physics. I also understand everything else you said in regards to the proper use of equipment. I don't think you are dismissing it out of hand without any real thought. I DO think you're dismissing the idea out of hand without wanting to help solve the problem, but instead to take a stand and say "We are going to play baseball the 'normal' way, or not at all." That's a fine stance to take. There are many like you, even in this message board. I don't think it's helpful, but it's your stance to take.

Again, that is what I THINK based on what you've said now and in the past. That is not me KNOWING what you're actually thinking or trying to accomplish. I want to get that out the way so we don't have to have that silly discussion again.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
As for meeting the NFHS standards, my son caught four years of HS ball and four years of college ball without ever wearing a cup. While incredibly stupid on his behalf I recall umpiring crews asking each coach during the pregame meeting at home plate if their players were properly equipped. I don't recall him ever being down and out so to speak, LOL. Sorry to change the topic.
SMH lol
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
I guess I was suggesting that it could/would be manufactured to work and fit properly, ensuring all safety. The sun visor that a catcher wears in his mask is installed by the catcher themselves. I have umpired and coached the sport so I understand the liabilities involved. Also the mask could be vented above the mouth/nose area to prevent fogging up. I'm sure some baseball supplier has to already be on this idea.
The big hole in this plan is you keep mentioning eye protection shields. I haven't seen any evidence of it being spread by eyes. Every full face mask is specifically made to allow as much air flow as possible while protecting people from physical injuries. That's why there's always holes in the mouth area...so athletes can breath
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I guess I was suggesting that it could/would be manufactured to work and fit properly, ensuring all safety. The sun visor that a catcher wears in his mask is installed by the catcher themselves. I have umpired and coached the sport so I understand the liabilities involved. Also the mask could be vented above the mouth/nose area to prevent fogging up. I'm sure some baseball supplier has to already be on this idea.
Many umpires wear the mask with the sun shield. It's manufactured exactly for that reason.

Anyone manufacturing (altering) add-ons that aren't a part of the original design have made their equipment illegal. It also invalidates the NOCSAE designation.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
As for meeting the NFHS standards, my son caught four years of HS ball and four years of college ball without ever wearing a cup. While incredibly stupid on his behalf I recall umpiring crews asking each coach during the pregame meeting at home plate if their players were properly equipped. I don't recall him ever being down and out so to speak, LOL. Sorry to change the topic.
I know of a couple games where a catcher got hurt because he wasn't wearing a cup. The crew asked if the replacement had a cup and the answer was "no". In fact nobody on the team had a cup so the umpires were forced to end the game early.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
And I will answer your question, because I've noticed if you don't get an answer to your question in a person's response you tend to get upset.
And you (0 for 2 now) tend to think you can read my mind. You tell me what I'm thinking or how I;m feeling, then you tell me you aren't telling me what I'm thinking or feeling...... There's no sense in either of us going back and forth here.

Last word is yours
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
The big hole in this plan is you keep mentioning eye protection shields. I haven't seen any evidence of it being spread by eyes. Every full face mask is specifically made to allow as much air flow as possible while protecting people from physical injuries. That's why there's always holes in the mouth area...so athletes can breath
The bigger problem would be from the optics.

If that shield isn't optically sound, now you are putting the catcher and the umpire in real jeopardy.
 
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